| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
beege29 
Guest
Joined: February 18 2012
Location: Spanish Fork
Status: Offline
Points: 747
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Cyano Help
Posted: June 07 2013 at 10:02pm |
|
I have a 90 gallon that has been set up for about 6-7 months w/ 30 gallon sump, skimmer, do not have a UV sterilizer. My question is why am I getting a Cyano outbreak on the sandbed (2 1/2" deep), that started about a week and a half ago.
I know that I do not over feed, I keep the detritus out of the sump, do 10-15 gal water changes every 2 weeks, have plenty of flow, good cleanup crew, I dose Fuel etc... A few things I might add
2 150w mh 14k, 2 blue special t5s, mh's are on for 7 hours, then blues, then stunners
Nitrates 0
Nitrites 0
phospahtes 0
ammonia 0
KH 10
PH 8.2
temp 78
sp. gravity 1.023,
Have current API test kit(s), used both to verify, I guess what I dont understand is if I am not overfeeding (1 mysis cube for 6 fish 2-3 times a week), have no phosphates or nitrates, why should I be getting cyano, I even use tap water for water changes and still have no phospates. I use Prime with water changes, I know I should be using R.O.. All my corals and fish have always been healthy and happy. I bought some sea gel to see if that helps, but I dont know what its going to remove as there are no phosphates etc.. Any help/suggestions are appreciated.
|
|
90 gallon mixed reef
30 gallon sump
|
 |
Dan9554880
Guest
Joined: June 28 2012
Location: West Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 813
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 07 2013 at 10:36pm |
|
I used to use tap water and I had cyno and I just had to tore down my tank and clean everything and refill it with ro water and then i got a small outbreak again and i dose cyno solution and since then I haven't had a problem.
|
|
210 Mixed Reef
20 Nuvo nano reef
Learn your tank, not the hobby
|
|
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 07 2013 at 10:43pm |
Aloha Brandon, We don't need to use special products to keep cyano and other nuisance algae under control. There is no need to tear down the tank and refill it with RO water. There are some simple things to consider starting with this question. What is going into the tank that is feeding the algae and what other things are we doing with our tanks that captures/removes N and P? Does the sump include an RDP Refugium? What is the TDS of the tap water? Can you reduce the dosage of Fuel? If you already use AC 2 weeks/month, can you save the Sea Gel for another time? What salt mix are you using? Consider this fact. Algae, which includes Cyanobacteria because it is a bacteria-algae combination organism, eats up N and P as fast as it can. That's why N and P are testing as zero. I'm pretty sure that less frequent and smaller water changes, using RO water will solve the problem. If you have never done 10% monthly water changes, try it, you'll like the reduced workload and your tank should be just fine. By the way, when testing Alkalinity, it's companion test, Ca should also be done. What's the Calcium level? Mahalo, Mark  808-345-1049 call or text anytime to "talk reef"
Edited by Mark Peterson - June 07 2013 at 10:51pm
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
|
|
beege29
Guest
Joined: February 18 2012
Location: Spanish Fork
Status: Offline
Points: 747
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 07 2013 at 10:44pm |
|
Oh forgot to mention, no one in utah county has cyano solution in stock??
|
|
90 gallon mixed reef
30 gallon sump
|
|
beege29
Guest
Joined: February 18 2012
Location: Spanish Fork
Status: Offline
Points: 747
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 07 2013 at 10:46pm |
|
Mark, I have tried 10 % monthly changes, my Ca is around 500, using oceanic salt
|
|
90 gallon mixed reef
30 gallon sump
|
|
beege29
Guest
Joined: February 18 2012
Location: Spanish Fork
Status: Offline
Points: 747
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 07 2013 at 10:48pm |
|
So Dan, when you refilled your tank with R.O. and still got an outbreak??
|
|
90 gallon mixed reef
30 gallon sump
|
|
beege29
Guest
Joined: February 18 2012
Location: Spanish Fork
Status: Offline
Points: 747
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 07 2013 at 10:51pm |
|
Mark, sorry dont know what RDP is, have not had TDS tested, and yes I can cut fuel dosage
|
|
90 gallon mixed reef
30 gallon sump
|
|
Dionysus
Guest
Joined: February 07 2012
Location: taylorsville
Status: Offline
Points: 840
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 07 2013 at 11:56pm |
|
The only time I ever had Cyano was when I was dosing fuel, I never dose it anymore.
|
|
|
|
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 08 2013 at 1:25am |
Aloha, RDP - Reverse Daylight Photosynthesis. Read more about it here if you like: RDP FiltrationThe Spanish Fork Annual Drinking Water Quality Report for 2012 says TDS(total dissolved solids) ranges from 233-550 ppm. That's much too high for my comfort in using it for my reef. The report is online here: http://www.spanishfork.org/dept/pubworks/utilities/water/pdf/2012ConsumerConfidenceReport.pdfRO water is only 25-35 cents/gal at grocery stores and health food stores. (I found my used RO unit for $50 on ksl.com) What did you experience that took you to changing greater than 10% twice as often? I would say that tap water was the reason. A reef tank will do much better with 10% monthly water changes using two five gallon buckets of salt water made with $3.00 of RO water. (I just looked it up - Chemiclean/red slime remover is about $20) A 6 month old tank is fairly new. I wonder what the biofiltration is like. Would you mind posting a pic of the tank? (just the tank, not the stand please) If a chemical additive like Red Slime Remover is used to get rid of Cyano, it will come back in 2-3 months requiring repeated chemical dosages every 2-3 months. If the root cause of the the Cyano is found and easy changes are made to eliminate the root cause, it might just never return as a nuisance. Mark 808-345-1049 anytime
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
|
Dan9554880
Guest
Joined: June 28 2012
Location: West Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 813
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 08 2013 at 9:14am |
|
Yeah but just a small one. So I just doce cyno solution and it clear up within a day. None of my corals and invert were harm by that.
|
|
210 Mixed Reef
20 Nuvo nano reef
Learn your tank, not the hobby
|
|
laynframe
Guest
Joined: May 17 2009
Location: north ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 1062
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 08 2013 at 10:10am |
|
I had to stop dosing Fuel because of cyno.
|
|
The time we enjoy wasting isn't wasted time!!!!
|
|
beege29
Guest
Joined: February 18 2012
Location: Spanish Fork
Status: Offline
Points: 747
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 08 2013 at 3:42pm |
what is in fuel that would cause cyano, extra nutrients? I have used it forever and never had a problem? Mark, what is a good number for tap water TDS?, also no fuge in sump, filtration is just overflow into sock, skimmer, and i blow my rocks off with power head with each water change, and it makes sense about the 10% monthly water change, I will try it, and just make the trek to orem for R.O.. Thanks for your advice. 
|
|
90 gallon mixed reef
30 gallon sump
|
|
beege29
Guest
Joined: February 18 2012
Location: Spanish Fork
Status: Offline
Points: 747
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 08 2013 at 3:44pm |
|
and with the feeding am I doing, 1 cube mysis, 6 fishes , 2-3 times a week, am I technically overfeeding? There is no waste they eat every bit of it as well as my clean up crew. I think I do need some more crabs though, need to replenish them.
|
|
90 gallon mixed reef
30 gallon sump
|
|
laynframe
Guest
Joined: May 17 2009
Location: north ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 1062
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 08 2013 at 4:30pm |
|
My ro is 0 tds out. Tap water is loaded with tds and phosphates, not to mention chlorine. I'm not sure what's in fuel that causes it but since I stopped using it, I haven't had a problem. I started doing esv 2 part and my corals love it. If your doing water changes that often then there really isn't a use for the fuel anyway. Just my 2 cents
|
|
The time we enjoy wasting isn't wasted time!!!!
|
|
beege29
Guest
Joined: February 18 2012
Location: Spanish Fork
Status: Offline
Points: 747
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 08 2013 at 5:07pm |
|
whats esv?
|
|
90 gallon mixed reef
30 gallon sump
|
|
laynframe
Guest
Joined: May 17 2009
Location: north ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 1062
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 08 2013 at 5:40pm |
|
Esv is a 2 part calcium and alk solutions that maintain your perams in your tank. Check out marine depot with their reviews.
|
|
The time we enjoy wasting isn't wasted time!!!!
|
|
ReefdUp
Guest
Joined: March 20 2011
Location: South Weber
Status: Offline
Points: 4166
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 08 2013 at 5:46pm |
|
The vast majority of phosphate test kits are junk...and the ones that are decent usually still can't test for organic phosphate (most test for inorganic phosphate.) Even with a top-of-the-line laboratory one, you may still get a zero-reading due to algae uptaking the phosphate quickly. That said, I don't bother with phosphate tests.
How old are your bulbs? My guess is that the tap water and feeding are the majority of the root cause.
You can try a few things (in no particular order)...I would do one...wait two weeks...then do another. If you do them all, you'll have no idea which actually fixed the problem.
1. Skim wetter
2. Change bulbs if the spectrum has shifted
3. Increase flow
4. Decrease food (including the Fuel)
5. Wrap your tank and leave the lights off for 3 days
6. Install a remote deep sand bed
7. Run carbon/GFO
8. Use RO/DI water
9. Blow out all rocks with a powerhead during each water change
10. Install an Algae Scrubber (not always beneficial)
11. Dose good bacteria to out-compete the cyano
12. Use a "quick fix" chemical to kill it...I don't recommend this one.
13. Grow more algae in the sump
Edited by ReefdUp - June 08 2013 at 5:47pm
|
|
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
|
|
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 08 2013 at 7:28pm |
Aloha, +1 what ReefdUp said What is an acceptable TDS for using tap water for a reef aquarium? Well, it depends. Yes, it depends on the tanks filtration capacity, meaning how is the system set up and what stuff is growing in the tank that would use/remove those impurities. ReefdUp pointed to several; #1, #6, #7, #10, and #13 would all work. I believe Adam Blundell uses tap water for his tank and it looks great because it uses several of those 5 items. I'm confused or maybe I don't understand, but there is no need to go all the way to Orem for RO water. SF has a grocery store and a Walmart where RO water can be purchased for less than the cost of gas to drive to Orem. Two part additives are based on the principle that most marine organisms need two major ingredients, Alkalinity and Calcium. These get depleted quickly in a well stocked reef tank. They cannot be mixed together in the same bottle and they cannot be added to the tank at the exact same time. Go to the "Reefkeeping Tips" thread linked below in my signatiure line and read down a few posts to see more info on the two part solutions. ESV is the brand name of a product which because of a special formulation, includes a third ingredient, Magnesium(Mg). Surprisingly, these three ingredients are available in pure form in some inexpensive household products; baking soda for Alk, driveway ice melt for Ca and Epsom salt for Mg. It's difficult to say whether the tank is being overfed because we don't know what type and size of fish they are. Six clownfish would be slightly overfed with an entire cube. I would probably do 1/2 cube 5-6 days/week. More frequent, but lighter feedings is more like how most fish eat in the wild. With RO water, you may find less crud build up on the rocks. Are you vacuuming the sand with the water changes? Mahalo, Mark 808-345-1049 anytime
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
|
