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    Posted: December 02 2013 at 4:27pm
I'm at lose on what to check next on my tank need some advice. About three weeks ago I noticed one large white spot one of my palys and two of my Acanthophyllia were bleaching out. I moved my Acanthophyllia into a more shaded area of my tank thinking they were getting to much light. I was told when I bought them they are very sensitive to light. Here it is three weeks later and 5 frags of zoas/palys are not opening and have white spots. My Acanthophyllia not only are bleached out but are now losing tissue, my candies and chalice are also losing tissue, and my frogspawn won't fully open. I am starting to think I have a bug/parasite making a meal out of my coral. I have looked for nudies, flat worms, and star fish. There are tons of bugs crawling on my rocks, sand, and coral but they are to small for me to tell if they are good or bad. So far I have dipped all coral, moved my rocks around to create more shade for my Acanthophyllia, moved my chalice many places (see if it was getting to much light/flow or not enough), feeding my tank zooxanthellae (brought a lot of color back in my Acanthophyllia) and dosing mag. I only have a cardinal and peppermint shrimp living in there. I have been testing my water but finally took it in to Ryan to have it double tested. Here's my tanks perimeters
salinity= 1.025
alk= 9.8
calcium= 410
mag= 1200
ph= 8.2
ammonia= 0
nitrite= 0
nitrate= between 40 and 80
phosphate= 0
temp= 76

Any insight or advice is much appreciated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 4:36pm
Your nitrates are way high! What type of food were you feeding to feed zooxanthalle?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 4:38pm
What size of tank is this? Do you have a skimmer or do water changes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyHeavens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 5:02pm
+1 to the above questions and can you take a picture of the problem corals. Even if that is a typo and you ment .4-.8 that nitrate is a huge problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 5:05pm
White spots on palys/zoas may be zoa-pox....or...it is more likely that your corals are stressing out (potentially from the nitrates.)

Photos would be helpful. If you need acanthophyllia babysitting, I'm located in South Weber (by South Ogden).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 5:05pm
I'm not sure what you mean. Ryan suggested it to me (he has been using it in his show tank for the same reason) as well creating a more shade for my Acanthophyllia. Which indeed did help bring back some color but doesn't explain tissue loss in my chalice and white spots in my zoas/palys. I do a 1 to 2 gl water change about once every week and half. My tank is a Nuvo 16 gl with no skimmer as of right now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 6:15pm
Is 40-80 nitrates a typo?

I would take Nikki up on the babysitting. And she helped me out when I had zoa pox on one frag. And it saved the coral

I only asked about the zooxanthalle food cause zooxanthalle is a form of algae that grows in a tank that at least to my memory is microscopic. And so if there is a food of it that would be awesome just never heard of it.

If your nitrates are that high that is what explains tissue loss
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 6:19pm
Here are some pictures sorry they are crappy cell phone pictures. Taken today
Full Tank

I'm not sure if you can see the translucent/white hair looking stuff growing on its skeleton.

Both are lacking total color you can see straight through them.

Candy also had the hair looking things are started growing red algae where the tissue died.

Sorry to post three pictures of these guys but I'm hoping someone will be able to see the bugs in them.

Last paly, this white spot was bigger but it looked like it popped or something healed and then this one appeared this weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 6:51pm
Ok, so you have hydroids pretty bad, which are probably stinging your corals (white fluffy things). The nitrates are too high. That doesn't look like zoa pox. The pods are probably harmless...just eating dying tissue. I think I see a hydroid hanging out in the zoas, so that could be irritating them. Unfortunately, manual removal and/or gluing over them is about the only way I know how to treat for hydroids.

I don't see any photos of acanthophyllia. Were you referring to the bleached coral? That could be from any number of causes...lighting, nitrates, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 7:02pm
+1 to hydroids. That's what the fussy white stuff I think you are referring to is. They look kind of like tiny dandelion seeds you can see them quite well in the picture of the candy canes. They are a tuff one but if anyone can tell you how to even try to deal with them it's Nikki.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 7:04pm
Sorry about that, yes typo and I retested just to be in the safe side. I'm using the api test kit levels came back some where in between 5.0 and 10 ppm.

Nikki I would love for you to baby sit my coral for me but I'm worried if they are covered in parasites you'll get them too

badfingure you would be right, zooxanthellae is a microalgae that live with in coral and clams tissue giving it in nutrients as well as color pigment. When corals stress out they release this microalgae causing it to bleach. I hope that makes sense that was the simplest way to put that. Anyway I picked my bottle up from Ryan at aquatic dreams there is a website on the back of you would like it. Because it is live it does go bad after three months.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 7:18pm
That's why I have a quarantine. I purposefully take sick stuff and babysit it. :) Although, right now is really bad with final exams and a thesis due...but I am still happy to help.

I think you mean that you are feeding zooplankton, not zooxanthallae. There is some research that corals can uptake zooxanthallae once they've lost it, it's not a sure thing. Zooplankton is a food.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 7:20pm
Nikki yes the 4th picture down (at least when I bought them that's what they where sold to me as, I thought they were chalice to be honest) They are frags so they aren't round and I haven't seen them puff up like "donut coral" normally does. I know I've asked Ryan and Ben, which is who I bought them from many times if that's what they really are and I trust their word on it.

Is there any fish that will eat those? If I manually Remove them how do I do it? Will the glue hurt my lps if it gets on the tissue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 7:23pm
Nikki has a great quarantine setup that should allow her to avoid any contamination.I'll leave it up to her to offer her services. I know she is pretty busy trying to have a baby on her schedule and finish up school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 7:50pm
Are you sure they weren't saying Acanthastrea (or maybe Australomussa), not Acanthophyllia? Acanthophyllia are pretty much impossible to frag, and you've got a frag (and you probably would've had to pay $200+++ for Acanthophyllia). I can tell you right now that's not Acanthophyllia.

Anywho, umm...I can't think of any fish that eat hydroids...at least not that small without eating your coral too. You can use bone cutters to cut them off as best as you can, then cover the area in super glue.

Edited by ReefdUp - December 02 2013 at 7:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 7:51pm
Sorry to read of your problems. Ouch
That all the coral would have issues and die back seems more than Hydroids to me.Confused Is it possible that the salt mix is bad, or that there is something bad in the water? The use of dead LR and/or LS can create these kind of issues for all coral but fish are usually unaffected. The unusual amount of green coralline algae has me thinking that something odd is going on. I dunno, maybe it's just my recent experience with soap, that makes we think it's something bad in the water.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 8:10pm
The sheer quantity of hydroids suggests excess nutrients. I wouldn't underestimate the damage hydroids can cause...I've seen them overrun a tank.

I'd try cutting back on your feedings and increasing water changes. Your "A" coral (whatever it is) can still be fed...just drop a pellet into each mouth a couple times a week. By feeding the whole tank food, you're just fueling the hydroids and algae.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2013 at 8:55pm
If the acan piece your talking about is the 4th pic down could it be acan enchinata?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2013 at 10:03am
Thank you everyone for your input and advice. Looks like I will be doing some research and some spring cleaning my tank today. Mystery coral "A" will just have to stay a mystery for now until it's fully healed and I can research it too. I'll continue feeding it zooxanthellae but cut back on all other food. To reassure you it is not zooplankton here is a photo.

I'm about 100% sure I've done enough research I feel confident continuing to dose my tank is not going to cause me grief. I really appreciate all your guys/gals help though in identifying the problem with my lps. I'm still not 100% site that is also the problem with my zoas but will be taking a closer look at them. Today as well. After putting some bugs under the scope last night I think I may have isopods on my hands. But not being a scientist who really knows I can only base my research on someone else's research and compare Internet photos. Either way is sad to watch my coral die off and I hope worn yips fits help and my cleaning I'll be able to fix it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2013 at 11:12am
Cool. We had the owner of Algagen here as a guest many years ago when he was just starting to develop his Phycopure Zooxanthellae product.

FWIW, here is my way of asking myself questions to deal with issues like this:

- Did this problem come on slowly over a few months with a coral having issues here and there or did it come on quickly, within a day or a week or two weeks? (Basically, with exceptions, a quick onset would point to a chemical problem, while a slow onset would point to a living pest.)

- Was anything changed in this tank within the month prior to this major coral decline or was it having trouble more than a month ago or perhaps since start up?

- What supplements were used before the issues began?

- Was a new supplement or even a new bottle of an old supplement used just prior to the onset of problems? (I believe that supplements are formulated with numerous chemical ingredients which the manufacturer can change without notice. Algae supplements must be formulated with some kind of preservative or in the case of algae paste, with a substance to allow the cells to stay frozen and not stick together, i.e., to stay liquid for dosing. I once used an algae paste which had some kind of glycol for this purpose. I believe the glycol irritated my coral because they recovered shortly after discontinued use.)

- Have I been using sufficient AC effectively during the life of this tank? (AC is a must for every reef tank)

- Have I changed to a new brand of filtration media, salt, a new bucket, a new hose, etc? (problems with new AC are not uncommon)

- Could anything have gotten into the tank via my typical maintenance procedures? (Did I use a water change bucket for something other than my aquarium and then use it for my aquarium?)

- Were any supplements, media or procedures used after the issues began? If after, has the issue been reversed? (If not, would it make sense to stop using that non-working supplement, media, procedure?)

- Is there a filtration media I could use that is known to help clear up various odd non-pest related issues? (Yes, Poly filter and Purigen)

Hope this helps, even if just to cross off some of the possibilities.

Aloha,
Mark Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - December 03 2013 at 11:28am
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