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Dan9554880 
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 Topic: Copperband not doing well
Posted: September 03 2014 at 5:30pm |
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Well this past few days my copperband has started to behave differently. He has started to spent most of the days hiding instead of being out of on the tank. Today he has refuse to eat and he looks skinny. I had him since July 5 and he had been eating mysis everyday since then til today. The store had him for about month feeding on brine and mysis. What can I so he doesn't die?
I try feeding with no success: flakes, pellets, and clam both on shell and chop
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210 Mixed Reef
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Fatman
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 8:12pm |
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I think you'll get a better response if you can provide more information on what other symptoms you can see.
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February 4: Winter Banquet at the Living Planet Aquarium
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Dan9554880
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 8:17pm |
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Well it's laying on his side, breathing a bit heavily, I don't think his going to make
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210 Mixed Reef
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Learn your tank, not the hobby
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Fatman
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 10:59pm |
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Any sign of ich or other parasites or diseases? Do you have a hospital tank you can set up to isolate and treat it?
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February 4: Winter Banquet at the Living Planet Aquarium
Tickets: http://utahreefs.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=36
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: September 04 2014 at 8:58am |
Unfortunately, by the time they are laying on their side on the sand and breathing oddly, it's typically too late. As hobbyists, we strive to catch little problems before they reach a point of no return. This knowledge comes with experience. I know that in the last while you have been gaining lots of experience and knowledge.  So what do we do when a fish starts hiding? Typically it means they are sick or they are being chased or both. I've had fish disappear for a few days and then reappear looking just fine. They probably had the Flu. Other times, I never see them alive again. What to do? Everyone knows that I promote the use of an effective garlic food additive and I talk about training bullies to stop bullying, but before those little miracles were revealed to me, I tried to learn how to make the environment as healthy and fish friendly as possible. This seems to have worked for me but it involved advance planning. It involved visiting with other hobbyists, viewing their setups and picking up good reefkeeping tips. That was the original purpose we founded this club, so we could share and learn how to do a better reef aquarium. Feel free to come back over to my place (when the lights are on  ) to pick up a few tips. Aloha  MarksReef Coral (& fish) Farm 808-345-1049 (please call ahead) 750 E Lakepoint Dr. #4V Murray P.S. Those sick RBTA's you brought to me have recovered nicely and are doing very well.
Edited by Mark Peterson - September 04 2014 at 9:03am
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BobC63
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Posted: September 04 2014 at 9:31am |
Here's my questions-
Given that this type of fish (CBB) is notorious for being difficult to keep - mainly related to feeding / starvation issues...
1) How large is your tank? How many lbs of Live rock? How long has the tank been running?
2) Any other grazers or 'worm / pod feeders' in the tank; e.g. wrasses, mandarins, blennies, sailfin tangs, etc?
3) A photo of your tank may be helpful to assess whether or not you have the proper environment for this species
4) Bloodworms, tubifex, glassworms... ever try feeding it any of those foods?
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: September 05 2014 at 7:22am |
 to Bob's questions.
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Dan9554880
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Posted: September 05 2014 at 9:08am |
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He passed away yerstoday, I do have a yellow wrasse. The tank it's a 90 gallon with more than 100 pounds of liverock I'm not sure how much I have (lost count) I'll try to get a tank shot up later on
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210 Mixed Reef
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Learn your tank, not the hobby
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Fatman
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Posted: September 05 2014 at 12:19pm |
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Sorry. That's hard to lose one.
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Tickets: http://utahreefs.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=36
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Dan9554880
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Posted: September 06 2014 at 3:35pm |
Here's a full tank shot 
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210 Mixed Reef
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: September 06 2014 at 7:41pm |
Thanks for the pic. A few cloning RBTA's I see. My opinion, from looking at the pic, is that the CBB had almost no live stuff to eat. Sorry 
What seems to happen is that Butterflyfish can survive only so long on supplemental frozen and prepared foods, until they eventually succumb to malnutrition. They need live polyps of all sorts like stony coral and Aiptasia. Tube worms are also part of their diet. For what it's worth, see the pics below for a better understanding.
Aloha 
This is just under the water surface in a small (~3'x3') Hawaii tide pool where their preferred food flourished because it was a Refugium where Butterflyfish and Moorish Idols (and Tangs) could not reach.
This very healthy CBB lived for years in a WMAS hobbyists tank where the sand (last pic) had 1000's of reproducing tube worms.
In the original pic it was hard to see, but a picture editing program sharpened the image so the tiny black tubes can be seen sticking out of the sand.
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BobC63
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Posted: September 06 2014 at 9:41pm |
Thanks for the tank shot, it really helps. Here is what I see - You don't have enough live rock. Not sure where you got the "100 lbs" figure from, let me explain... This is MY 90 gallon reef tank. So, same size tank. My tank has 75 lbs of Live Rock in it: I think you will agree that my 75 lbs sure looks like substantially more rock than your 100 lbs... A CBB needs an environment with a lot of Live Rock to forage in. These fish use their long noses to pull worms, amphipods and other small creatures out of the rock. I also don't know if your rock is 'old' enough for a CBB yet. Does your rock look like this, close up? Lots of little nooks and crannies; filled with little holes and algae spots, sponge growth, etc... This is the proper environment on which to provide adequate worm and amphipod populations on which the CBB can feed. My tank has been up for 15 months; however, some of this rock is significantly older than that, as it came from my previous setup which ran for 3 years... And, even though I have what appears to be a good environment for a Copperband, I don't have one. That's because of the 3rd thing you need to have in order to successfully keep this fish: the right tankmates I have several other fish (wrasses) who keep the pod and worm population too low to sustain a CBB. In your case, the Yellow Coris and (to a lesser extent) the Yellow Tang are not compatible with the CBB. The Coris will eat up pods and worms needed for the Copperband; the Tang will clean out many of the algae-laden worm breeding holes and thus limit food availability for the CBB in that way.
Edited by Upload2 - September 06 2014 at 10:23pm
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Upload2
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Posted: September 06 2014 at 10:29pm |
So, in short, 3 things you would need to change in order to try another Copperband = 1) Double the amount of Live rock you currently have. Look for large, porous - looking pieces with good algal and sponge growth on it. Finding established Live rock on the Message Board is a good way to get some well - established rock for cheap 2) Remove the Yellow Coris for sure, and probably the Yellow Tang as well 3) Feed the next CBB worms as well as brine and Mysis; bloodworms, glass worms and live tubifex and I'd try those 'probiotic' live blackworms that Benepets carries
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