Garlic and Fish again
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: Fish
Forum Description: This is the place to ask questions about fish.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1616
Printed Date: April 24 2024 at 11:07am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Garlic and Fish again
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Subject: Garlic and Fish again
Date Posted: January 06 2004 at 1:19pm
|
Well I know it has been discussed before, but I would like to bring it up again. I've heard the theory behind garlic but it has never made sense to me. I mean what a bunch of made up crap. Well over the last few weeks I was testing some new foods in my tank and playing around with my "recipe". Well overnight two of my fish looked bad and had some serious ich. One of those fish was my wife's Moorish Idol. She wasn't happy to see her fish swimming lethargically and gasping for oxygen. Needless to say it didn't look good. I switched back to my other food (the food we made at the last meeting) and used it for two days. I was amazed to see that both fish look as good as they did before the incident. I'm a skeptical scientist and it takes a lot to convince me of something, but I am really starting to believe in this garlic stuff. I've seen it first hand in a few tanks now. I can't think of anything else that could have caused the drastic change in their health. For those of you who are making your own food, I would encourage you to add garlic; at least to your fish food but maybe not for your coral food. As hard as it is to believe, maybe it is a miracle cure? Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Replies:
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: January 06 2004 at 1:36pm
|
It's worked for me every time. I dose it in my personal recipe of food that I feed my fish/tank on a daily basis. I've never had a fish with a parasite (ich, etc)since. I have used Kyolic from GNC for over a year. It's easy to dose (a dropper) and it's fairly inexpensive for how long it lasts. Anyway, it's good to hear that you've finally come around to the idea...  Just kidding.
|
Posted By: kini
Date Posted: January 06 2004 at 1:39pm
| Do you this crushed garlic from the supermarket would be OK? It was the best I could find and seems to be OK. The GNC at the University mall did not have the liquid garlic. |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: January 06 2004 at 1:53pm
|
I never use the Kyolic it didnt work for me i went to harmons and went into the health food section and got some pure 100% garlic oil and use that and that stuff works GREAT! ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: January 06 2004 at 2:03pm
| Eric, That's strange. It's always worked great for me. Wonder why it didn't work out for you. Anyway, it's convenient, and easy to use. I never used the oil because I thought it might leave a slick on the water surface, but I've never used it, so I wouldn't know. |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: January 06 2004 at 2:22pm
|
... still waiting for an ich outbreak to "test the theory"... ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: January 06 2004 at 2:23pm
|
Adam, you wrote, "I mean what a bunch of made up crap." Which makes me believe that you don't like the use of garlic. Then you wrote, "but I am really starting to believe in this garlic stuff." I take it that you do believe in it now? Kyolic has worked for me as well. I had also had the Garlic gel caps from the health food store that I have cut open and used. I used to buy the large flats of brine, krill, and mysis. Then I would open all the packages and thaw then all out together in a large bag in my fridge. I would then add a bunch of flake food, Kyolic Garlic, and Zoecon (or Selcon, whatever I had at the time) and freeze them again in smaller zip lock bags. Whenever I had to feed, I would just snap off a chunk, thaw it in a cup and dump it in. It has worked for me. |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: January 06 2004 at 3:07pm
|
Yeah I'm starting to. The reasoning for it is still sketchy, but regardless of why, who cares it works. I've used it in my foods for a while and I don't see any reason not to use it. Does anyone see a reason not to use it? But trust me 10 years ago this sounded like a bunch of crazy snake oil miracle cure made up stuff to sell you a product. But after much hesitation, I have to promote it now. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Marcus wrote:Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: January 06 2004 at 3:16pm
| I agree Adam, right on! |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: January 06 2004 at 5:37pm
|
Well it comes in a bottal just like lugols iodine does, so its very easy to use no mess. also i mix up a batch of it with some good flake food in a old flake food container i do 25 drops to half a cup of food i mix it real well(making the food mussy) then i let is air dry mixing it when i can remember the food will dry out then its ready for action, i also have used it wet works well that way to just smell more this i have seen work the best over kyolic its about $8.00 for it but works wonders..... ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: January 07 2004 at 8:14am
|
Sounds like those of us using garlic are at least using the same technique. Marcus and I do it the same way. I just break a chunk off and throw it in the sump. Then I watch all the fish attack the return lines of my sump as it spews into my main tank. Works great!
|
Posted By: dianatabor
Date Posted: January 11 2004 at 11:57am
|
I have also had great success using garlic. I started using it whenever I'd notice a little white dot on one of my fish or as a preventative measure during periods of stress (such as power outages or when adding new aquarium residents). I now use it everytime I feed. Just though I'd add my two cents worth, based on my personal experience... I started by mixing tiny amounts of fresh garlic with my fish food, because that's all I could find and I needed a cure fast. It cleared up those little white dots overnight! When I got more time, I searched for Kyolic in the dropper bottle, but found that the GNC store near me doesn't carry it. After doing quite a bit of research online, I came across Kent Garlic Xtreme, which comes in convenient dropper bottle. I know that Aquatic Dreams in Ogden carries it. (Other LFS may as well?) This product is great!! In addition to helping with Ich, garlic can also be helpful when fish won't eat. Here's an exerpt from the Garlic Xtreme package: Directions: Add 2 drops per teaspoon of fish food each time you feed. Use particularly if parasites are present or if fish have visible wounds or infections. If fish are not eating, Garlic Xtreme may also be added to the aquarium at a rate of 1 drop per 10 gallons. Use and Interaction: Kent Garlic Xtreme is an all natural food additive for all ornamental fishes. It is a natural attractant for fish and will help cause finicky eaters to take food. Garlic is safe for all species of marine and freshwater fishes and plants, live corals, and other invertabrates. Because Garlic Xtreme is very strong and fish are extremely sensitive to chemical cuses and scents in the water, it is not recommended that you exceed 2 drops per feeding... (Garlic Xtreme contains 99% Allium Sativum Extract [garlic juice]. If you use other forms of garlic, this same general info is still true.) I use one drop with each small cube of frozen brine shrimp (along with Kent Zoe). I use the same mix when feeding my corals, and it doesn't appear to have any negative effects. I did read somewhere online that using too much garlic in your fish food mix can cause disorientation. In this case, more is not better. Just something to keep in mind. |
Posted By: Meeshi_ma
Date Posted: February 25 2004 at 3:23pm
|
I realize that this is an older thread, but just an update: the kyolic in liquid form is not available at the GNC in Provo/Orem but is around the corner at the Best Earth Health food place on Center. I'm using it on my tank now. Thanks again for the heads up Ryan and Mark! (and everybody else!) Brian |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: February 25 2004 at 3:27pm
| You bet! |
Posted By: Marine-Aquatics
Date Posted: February 25 2004 at 5:40pm
| Try the garlic from harmons in the health food section its worked wonders for me and i have alot of tangs.... |
Posted By: Skyetone
Date Posted: February 25 2004 at 7:51pm
So the fish actually injest the garlic? Or it just meds the water. I take garlic pills, and try to eat garlic cloves in my food. Why not just crush a garlic clove into the water. Would they eat that peice? Have you ever licked your fingers after crushing a clove up?  potent------------- I will just give my warning that your system will flood, bulbs will burn out, and things will take continuous maintenance... get over it. Magna |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: February 25 2004 at 8:01pm
|
Liquid Garlic Soaked Food. I don't know anyone that has medicated their water with it. Just follow the directions above. Any of those methods should work. |
Posted By: chrisslc
Date Posted: February 25 2004 at 8:34pm
|
does the garlic form matter much, other than ones that contain contrary ingredients? Just curious what the characteristics of kyolic and other liquid forms are that make it more appropriate than raw, concentrate, and dried forms. ------------- Murray, Utah just north of the park. "It's all the same to the clam" -Shel Silverstein |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: February 25 2004 at 8:39pm
|
yes Kyolic has a small amount of garlic i but the pure garlic and the only place i have seen it is at harmons it smells like S&#@ but it works i think better then kyolic ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: Meeshi_ma
Date Posted: February 25 2004 at 9:12pm
|
The first time that I put garlic in I soaked the food in some tank water and then just dumped the whole cup in. The fish loved the food but my frogspawn and anemone both sucked all of the way in. I presume that they didn't like the garlic in the water as much... Brian |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: February 26 2004 at 7:04am
|
Brian, you might want to try soaking the food longer. Also, you should only put enough in there to absorb completely into the food. I make a large batch of it at a time, and then freeze it. Then I take a chunk out and stick it in one of those floating food corrals, and let it melt and feed the fish. Just one technique. There are many I'm sure. |
Posted By: Meeshi_ma
Date Posted: February 26 2004 at 9:43am
| That's kind of what i've done now. My wife wrote off one of her ice cube trays for me, she says that if she ever gets a fish food ice cube in her drink it may be grounds for a divorce! She loves the fish, just not the smell. It's one of those trays that make smaller round ice cubes, which works well because I have a smaller tanks. |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: February 26 2004 at 10:07am
Sounds like your wife, and my wife would get along GREAT! 
|
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 26 2004 at 10:51am
|
Skyetone, I believe it may have been mentioned before but raw garlic and the prepared garlic for cooking do not seem to work. The garlic must be in liquid form and processed in some way, like the garlic available at health food stores. Meeshi_Ma, Corals sucking in does not always indicate a negative response. Sometimes it's a feeding response.  It's not easy to describe the difference. As far as I can tell, soaking the food should occur without water. put some drops directly on dry flake food or in a little cap with only the thawed frozen food. Let it sit for a few minutes or even many minutes in the case of thawed frozen food. My 2 cents ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
|
Posted By: Skyetone
Date Posted: February 26 2004 at 4:44pm
|
I'll have to try it in my fresh tank.... My mom is a vitamin freak, so I shouldn't have much trouble with the source. Wonder why raw garlic doesn't work, but liquid form does... ------------- I will just give my warning that your system will flood, bulbs will burn out, and things will take continuous maintenance... get over it. Magna |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 27 2004 at 7:21am
|
Most people don't eat raw potatoes ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 27 2004 at 7:54am
|
Wonder why raw garlic doesn't work, but liquid form does... I think that's a very valid question, one that deserves more looking into. ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: Carl
Date Posted: February 27 2004 at 8:27am
|
I think that I would disagree that raw garlic (pressed or juiced or whatever you want to call it) doesn't work. I know, big surprise, Carl doesn't agree with something! I think that it's effectiveness will really depend on the amount used, the form used and the potency of it. Also, define "doesn't work". Do you mean that fish won't eat it or that it does not repel parasites? However, I will agree that it is easier to use the liquid extract. ------------- In Syracuse "I believe that forgiving them is God's function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting." - Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 27 2004 at 8:42am
|
I agree with Carl. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: February 27 2004 at 10:58am
|
That's my stand as well. I've never tried anything but the liquid form because, come on now... Who wants to press Genuine Garlic Cloves for a few drops of Pure Garlic??? It's much easier to buy it in the form I use it in.
|
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 27 2004 at 2:54pm
|
I'm still a fence sitter when it comes to garlic, but I'm slowly getting pushed over. My father-in-law called me about a month ago worried about one of his fish. He came home from work to find one of his fish covered in ick. My first suggestion was No-Ick, but then I remembered garlic. He had garlic pills in the house so he tried it. Next day everything's clear... he was surprised. I've tried it once. My flame angel had a couple white spots one evening just after I got him. I don't have garlic "supplements" in the house, but I've always got whole garlic cloves laying around. So I throw a clove in my press and squeeze it into my food cup. Mix in some brine shrimp and feed the tank. The angel is clean the next day. The infection wasn't bad and could have cleared up on it's own (why I'm still on the fence). So I start searching around on the chemistry of garlic to find reasons why it might work. Here's my thoughts on it. GARLIC CHEMISTRY: Allicin is a fairly strong antibiotic. It's 1/50 the strength of penicilin and 1/10 the strength of tetracycline. It's also a good antifungal, antiviral and antiparasite compound. This is why garlic was used way way back in the greek empire times as a healing sauve for wounds. Unfortunately, as mentioned above, it's a very unstable compound and is really only present in fresh, unprocessed garlic. The byproducts of allicin, listed above, are also reported to have antibiotic properties, although much less potent then allicin. Less real science is known when it comes to these compounds. Everything I could find was put out by someone selling one of the products and wanting to bad mouth the other and praise themselves. You can find a study to support almost any position. Kyolic is a mix of the cysteine (water soluble) compounds while the garlic liquid oil extracts are almost all diallyl sulfides. Take a look at the ingredients on your galic oil. I've never found one that listed garlic extract (or oil) as the first ingredient. They are mostly vegatable oil with a small amount of garlic oil (diallyl sulfides) mixed in. If anyone knows where to find an oil that is mostly garlic please tell. SUMMARY (thanks for getting through this. Anyone have other thoughts?) ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: chrisslc
Date Posted: February 27 2004 at 6:02pm
Who could possibly add to that Fantastic info Jon (if I'm spelling that wrong please PM correction). Not many that can take a subject and apply that much direct science to it. Makes one wonder about the whole Garlic vs. Vampire thing. Obviously it's got highly antiparasitic qualities, and what's more parasitic than a nosferatu. Either someone in the Fiction genre must have been in on this science and been very creative, or the whole thing's true and the Cloves properties where discovered accidently in the ensuing bloodshed ------------- Murray, Utah just north of the park. "It's all the same to the clam" -Shel Silverstein |
.Posted By: Skyetone
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 8:11am
|
Skye you can post my thoughts on this subject- Garlic has been shown to fight fungus, viral, bacterial issues. What manner of fighting it is is unclear to me--the long post on this page was quite scientific sounding-I cannot really get the chemical pathway info-what that guy said was good. In the health field garlic is now being recognized by the cardiologists as a way to bring down blood pressure and cholesterol. How it works is not something I know. I think raw, oil in capsules, kyolic or any other kind will do the same thing. Even if people just eat it cooked it works seemingly. The thing that makes people pick one garlic or the other is whether it will make them smell. People dont want to have bad odor and everthing but kyolic garlic will cause this. It is funny though that if 2 people eat food with garlic-they cannot smell each other afterword- but if one person eats it and then joins a crowd he and they can smell it on the person who ate it. Go figure--but the vampire story didnt stick around this long cuz it was based on nothing. You cannot know if it is true unless the teeth are sinking into your neck--and then it is unlikely you will be telling the truth to anyone else LOL ------------- I will just give my warning that your system will flood, bulbs will burn out, and things will take continuous maintenance... get over it. Magna |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 8:18am
|
Jon, I've never claimed to be a good splellerer Also, I was a much bigger fence sitter than you for years. Actually I was on the opposed to side of the fence. The early usage of garlic and the theories behind why it worked just didn't go over well with me. A lot of people said who cares why it works as long as is it works. But I wanted some reason that at least made sense. The recent ideas of Allinase being the active molecule do go over well with me. It was because of the recent thoughts behind it, that I started believing, and started this whole topic. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 8:39am
|
Allinase..those darn enzymes must be good for something! I have worked with folks from a company called Enzyme Biosystems and there are many other companies now looking even more into the value of these types of compounds, some of wich come as a byproduct of bacterial fermentation. Fermentation is the very thing we like to have happening in our aquariums!  Adam, is there a count of the number of enzymes currently known to be working in the human body? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 9:23am
|
Mark, I bet there is a number, but I don't know it. If that number (or estimate) has been worked out, I'm sure a coworker of mine would know it. I'll ask sometime. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 12:07pm
|
No, I was suggesting that the active compound was allicin, not the enzyme allanase, although I have nothing other then the fact that allicin is a good antibiotic to make that judgement. Alliin (reacting with allanase) -----> allicin (not a very stable compound) allicin ---------> diallyl disulfide (and all the other organosulfur compounds) To better understand, here's the chicken wire diagrams of the molecules: Alliin:
Allicin:
Diallyl disulfide:
As for spelling, I'm terrible! I think I've spelled them correctly, unless you're in England then it's diallyl disulphide, not sulfide. ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 12:33pm
|
What about pyrovic acid? Sure about that? Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 1:31pm
|
pyruvic acid. CH3COCO2H ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 1:54pm
|
As for being sure about any of this stuff, I'm not. I just tried to condense what I've found regarding the chemistry of why garlic might work as an antiparasitic food. I'd welcome any other ideas regarding why it works. Most people don't really care why something works as long as it does. I'm just more curious then most. Why is that some claim success using kyolic while others say it doesn't work you should use the oil extracts? Maybe both work? Maybe fresh crushed garlic would work better? Maybe roasted garlic is better (hmmm, pasta)? Has anyone tried onion or cabbage? They also contain similar organosulfer compounds. ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: chrisslc
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 2:02pm
I'll say this for any type of garlic added to the food, when I feed my tank at least my wife says "uh.. garlic" instead of "EEeyyoouugHH... Fish Stink!!!" ------------- Murray, Utah just north of the park. "It's all the same to the clam" -Shel Silverstein |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 4:07pm
All I know is my new Niger trigger was getting cloudy eyes, and I started soaking Krill in Kyolic for him to eat, and three days later, no more Parasites. I even "injected" some Kyolic into a few dead mollies with a needle syringe to feed to my lions, and the lions both look very healthy (after surviving tank cycling with live rock and sand.) Incidentally, I re-built my Refugium and sump last week, and I think moving all the Fuge sand from the old tank to the new tank caused a small Ammonia spike. A few of my fish were starting to get ich (Which hasn't presented itself in over a year in this tank) and I resumed feeding frozen, prepared food that had been soaked and frozen in Kyolic, and now only a few days later, they're all better. Now who can argue that kind of success. Before I started using Kyolic, I would lose at least one fish to Ich when it broke, but now whenever I change something on my tank, or add a new fish, I begin my regular regimen of feeding "Kyolic Enriched" foods, and it works every time. I'm sold for life! |
Posted By: Meeshi_ma
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 4:14pm
| Well, it wasn't an overnight thing, but my tang is starting to look better on the kyolic "ice cubes". Seems to work for me! |
Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 5:01pm
Yeah, kind of a bummer eh? I like instant gratification too... Oh well, at least it works.
|
Posted By: Meeshi_ma
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 5:04pm
|
Brian |
Thanks for all of the advice!!Posted By: Ryan Willden
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 5:37pm
|
You betcha
|
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 28 2004 at 9:23pm
I agree, using garlic seems to be revolutionizing the hobby, at least in the WMAS circle. We no longer have accept the statistical loss of every third new fish we add to our aquarium!  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: dianatabor
Date Posted: March 05 2004 at 12:03pm
FYI - The Kent Garlic Xtreme label states that it contains "99% Allium Sativum Extract [garlic juice]." That stuff is so strong that I only use a drop or two.
|