help! things are dying in my tank
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Topic: help! things are dying in my tank
Posted By: mashfan
Subject: help! things are dying in my tank
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 9:26am
| I have a 50 gallon tank and I've tried to put snales and they keep dying and today a sand sifter starfish died after a year. What am I doing wrong? |
Replies:
Posted By: kody72
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 9:56am
| what are your levels? What kinda livestock? |
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 10:00am
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Really, the first thing you need to do is check all your water parameters. Hopefully that will tell us something.
As a first reaction - I would recommend a significant water change. (20 gallons) Please keep us posted.
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Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 10:16am
| Everything is fine except nitrates r up to 20 and can't get them down. Going to do a major water change today. Will a protein skimmer help? |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 10:29am
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feeding less will really help! ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: downhill_biker
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 10:43am
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you need to list your water parameters. telling us they are fine will not tell us. if you are new you may not know what is desired, or you may have forgotten. please check and list these measurements: Temp: pH: Salinity: Nitrates: Ammonia: have you changed anything lately? added anything new? do you have a sump? refugeum? i would recommend that over a protein skimmer right now. we need more info and we can help you figure this out? is this a fish only tank? or is there coral is well? how do the fish/coral look? or are you just losing inverts? ------------- Make sure you post your best pictures every month in our POTM forum. |
Posted By: sanddune600
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 12:16pm
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more than once I we hear they are fine then to find out they are not downhill biker is right we need to know the parameters he listed to help you further if it is only inverts that you are losing a copper test may be needed
------------- Andy Jorgensen My number is four three 5 7 six four 8 0 three four |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 12:37pm
See my signature line. My phone number is there so you can call me. We can do a lot over the phone and a lot faster than here on the MB. Feel free to call anytime, even right now! ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:11pm
| I've been working on the tank and this is what's going on. My ph is 8.2 my ammonia is 0.25 my nitrate was 80 then after 25 gallon water change its 20 and has been 20 the week before. I hade snails die and starfish die today. Nitrite is 0 and has been since started tank and temp I keep at 76. Now what? I cleaned out cannister filter and put new carbon in. I add to the tank kent marine calcium iodide essential ellements and just started adding coPper free probiotic marine formula. |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:21pm
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Been working on tank and cleaned out canister filter added new carbon bags did a 25 gallon water change with ro water and then tested the water again.
Before water change Ammonia 0.25 Nitrate 80 Nitrite o Salinity 1.10 Ph 8.2 Temp 77 After 25 gallon water change Ammonia 0.25 Nitrate 20 Nitrite 0 Salinity 1.20 Ph 8.0 Temp 77 I had snails die and a star fish die within all within the last three weeks. My fish seam to be doing fine I have a clown fish blue tang and that's it. Now what? I'm adding kent marine calcium iodide essential ellements and selcon vitamis and copperfree probiotic marine formula all within the last month I started them all hopping that would help keep invertebre alive |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:25pm
Was your salinity really 1.1????? If so , that is the culprit right there. You shocked everything by going from 1.1 to 1.20.
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Posted By: sanddune600
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:28pm
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your salinity is really low at 1.010 and still low at 1.020 assuming this is what you ment to say and not 1.10 and 1.20. I how fast did you bring it up to 1.020 and I would try and stay between 1.022 - 1.025 personally
------------- Andy Jorgensen My number is four three 5 7 six four 8 0 three four |
Posted By: sanddune600
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:29pm
Ryan you beet me to it
------------- Andy Jorgensen My number is four three 5 7 six four 8 0 three four |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:29pm
| I forgot the 0's in my post as well. LOL |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:32pm
| I would suggest S.G. of 1.024-1.025. And stability is important. Match water change water before adding or add it very slowly. |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:35pm
| sorry forgot the other 0 it was 1.010 |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:36pm
| yes that what i ment to say sorry brain overload today how do i bring it up and how do i get my nitrate down? |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:40pm
| You bring it up by adding salt and nitrates can be brought down by water changes and macro algae. If you haven't already, I really recommend calling Mark. |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:49pm
| ok thanks for the help i really dont know much and still trying to learn what i need to do to get the tank where i want it. i will find his number and call him |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 3:49pm
| would you recommend a protein skimmer? |
Posted By: downhill_biker
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 4:34pm
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I would recommend a sump and refugeum before a skimmer. Unless you want to spend some money and get a good one. So many times people decide they want/need a skimmer but they cheap out and what they get is actually of no benefit because it isn't very effective. A deep sand bed and macro algae in a refugeum can help the situation, and as someone else said, less feeding. I think I feed my fish 2x a week...thats it. Have you addressed the salinity issue? You need to bring it up slowly. I would recommend adding salt water as your top off water for the next few days and checking each time. Get it into the 1.024-1.025 range and keep it there. You were so low on salinity that you were almost at hyposalinity which we use for treating ich and such... Oh, and if you do need other help call Mark, you can still get help here, I'm not saying dont ask here, but he is only a phone call away and can help you faster. ------------- Make sure you post your best pictures every month in our POTM forum. |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 4:41pm
I wouldn't add anymore livestock until you have all parameters right. You need to slow down a bit! ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: downhill_biker
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 6:33pm
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There is a good skimmer for sale in the buy/sell forum if you need one. The ASM G3 is a good one.
------------- Make sure you post your best pictures every month in our POTM forum. |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 7:09pm
| Thanks I will try and find it |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 7:58pm
| I uploaded the pictures hopefully u get them |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 07 2010 at 9:09pm
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I tried to send it to ur email from this web site and it won't let me attach pictures. So if u will send me ur email address and I will email them to u from my email. My email is [email protected]
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Posted By: Jake Pehrson
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 12:17am
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As stated above I would get your salinity up. I would raise it faster then they have posted, but either way in need to be about 1.025. I would stop adding all the "additives". Test for the following: pH Alkalinity Calcium Salinity Temperature if one of these are off then fix them. You really don't need to add all the stuff you are adding. Until you get a better setup I would recommend water changes. 10% per week or maybe 20% every other week. Good luck ------------- Jake Pehrson Murray http://coralplanet.com" rel="nofollow - coralplanet.com http://utahbeeranch.com" rel="nofollow - :) |
Posted By: downhill_biker
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 2:17am
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Jake I really dont even know if this guy has a single coral in his
tank. If that is the case calcium and alkalinity aren't anything that
is needing to be tested...especially since he is having inverts dying. To OP: pictures aren't going to do "crud" for us. We dont need to see your tank, we just need you to listen to what has been said and act accordingly. Is your salinity fixed? Did you ever answer the question regarding whether or not you have a sump or refugeum? You have to help us...help you... ------------- Make sure you post your best pictures every month in our POTM forum. |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 8:20am
| I don't have any coral. I haven't gotten that far on my tank yet. I don't have a sump I hAve a cannister filter. I'm trying to get my numbers right by water changes and mike wanted pictures of my tank. I would apprechiate any info u recommend |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 9:03am
| Would lights make a difference? Right now I just have the cheap ones that came with the tank. I've been told that there to yellow and the main reason for excess alage and red and green Slime. Is that true? |
Posted By: downhill_biker
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 10:21am
The lights are probably helping with algae growth, but the main reason you are getting algae is probably because they have too much food. Probably the same reason you have high nitrates and ammonia. How often and how much do you feed? How often do you clean your canister filter? To me it sounds like you are running a fish only tank. Do you have plans of keeping coral? It is much, much more demanding and takes a large investment, both of time and money. Maybe you should get the fish thing down before you think about coral. There are a few things that you can do to reduce nitrates, can you let us know what you budget is so that we can help you find the most effective method(s) for you? Skimmers, Deep Sand Beds, Refugeums, and less feeding all help. You can do any number of these things based on your budget and what you intend to accomplish. Have you changed your salinity yet? That is your BIGGEST (BY FAR) issue right now! ------------- Make sure you post your best pictures every month in our POTM forum. |
mashfan wrote:Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 10:53am
| I do want to do coral. I haven't bought lights yet because I'm still learning and I wanted to get the fish thing down before I made the jump to coral. my budget is very smal. I was thinking 2 to 3 hundred for lights but would like to spend less if I can. And would like to do a sump filter but need to stay as cheap as I can on everything without buyind crap either. I have been working on salinity but didn't want to bring it up to fast either. I have stopped adding any additives and feed the fish every other day with frozen brine shruimp. One cube and adding garlic to it. I didn't know if I needed a protein skimmer or not. Most good ones are 3 hundred so would like to find used if I can. |
Posted By: downhill_biker
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 11:29am
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Most good skimmers are in sump models, so I would think that your first step needs to be a sump. Figure out how much room you have and then post in the buy-sell forum that you are looking for a sump of "X" size or smaller. Also post that you are looking for a return pump. I would imagine that you could buy both of these things and the plumbing for around $100. That would be my first step.
------------- Make sure you post your best pictures every month in our POTM forum. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 11:40am
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Aloha everyone, Mashfan called me yesterday about 3PM MST and we spoke for a while. She lives out in the Vernal area. The LFS out there closed so she has no good resources, except for a woman she knows that does tank maintenance. She has not ever tested Alkalinity and doubts that the tank maintenance woman even knows about testing Alkalinity.
We spoke about Garlic because the Blue Tang has not been looking good lately.
We spoke about cleaning the Hydrometer because we could not believe how there could be a 0.01 shift in salinity.
We spoke about posting some pics, but it looks like the procedure didn't work.
She found out about the MB just recently from someone she met at Reefrunners.
She called me back last night. As sometimes happens, I didn't receive the call but the voice message was on my phone this morning. I have left a return message. Hopefully the game of phone tag will end soon and we can resolve her tanks problems. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 4:51pm
| Got salinity up to 1.020 today. I'm going to wait till tomorrow to add anymore salt to get it up juSt a little higher. Hope u got my email of pictures and let me know what I need to do next with the tank lights and regulium. There is also a supm filter on ksl for fourty bucks. Is it work buying of is the refulium better? |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 6:25pm
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also make sure to acclimate snails for atleast a half hour.
aslo someone mentioned they only feed their fish 2x a week? is that just for meat eaters? or flakes as well? ------------- 125g Aggressive tank SWC-Xtreme cone prtein skimmer 40g Sump ------------------------------ 16g Innovative Marine Reef AI led 75W |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 6:53pm
| I feed them frozen. Brine shrimp. One square every other day is all. I have a blue tang and clown fish is all |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 7:19pm
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One thing you will want to keep in mind is that you don't have a high bioload so your tank's ability to absorb excess food is not going to be much at this point. You should only be feeding your fish what they can completely consume in 3-5 min maybe 2-3 times per week. Also to give your tang any chance of staying healthy it needs to eat nori, seaweed, or marine algaes to help ward off ich. You can also soak these in garlic oil to boost the effect. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 8:26pm
| I just started the garlic oil today to help the blue tank hopefully it helps him |
Posted By: kay181
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 9:01pm
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u can get dry nori at sum supermarkets in the asian section then put garlic oil on it my tangs go nuts over it walmart has it to just so you if theres not a fish store around its called (sushi party) at wallmart 20 sheets for 2.44 ------------- day light scares me im going back under |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 9:19pm
| I'm haeding. To wal mart now to get garlic pills. Where in the store is it? |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 9:41pm
|
Health supplements section.
Here are the pics:
   ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 9:49pm
| I got them but all there was is odorless. Will that work? |
Posted By: sterling18
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 9:50pm
Just make sure it's unsalted dry seaweed. Taste it before putting it in your talk if you're not sure. Don't worry considering it's for sushi wrap. Hummm. yummy, now I'm hungry. |
Posted By: sterling18
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 9:51pm
Just because you can't smell is doesn't mean the fish can't. Just make sure there are no other ingredients. |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 10:08pm
| The other ingredients are soybean oil gelatin glycern silica |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 10:18pm
|
Try that Garlic Oil and see what happens. The fish doesn't have ich which is the major condition that garlic corrects but it still may help. The feeding of green leafy lettuce may do as much good as anything else.
By the looks of the tank and the sand, in addition to the low salinity, the Sand Sifting Star died from lack of food. It ate all the food in the sand and then passed away. By eating all the stuff in the sand, the tank is now compromised. It has less ability to process waste/pollution/nitogen compounds. That means that the tank is not healthy enough to support much life. I have put together a list of things that would be good to do to bring this tank back to full health. If you can do these things more or less in this order it would help.
- Tell your hubby that this tank is going to be looking so good in a few months that he will not need you to change the stand. (though you may want to consider moving it nearer to a window) It will soon be getting lots of positive comments from your visitors. It will become the focal point of the living room, a beautiful work of living art. - Move the two end powerheads down low and point them up diagonally toward the center water surface. - Add a good bunch of macroalgae (Caulerpa and Cheatomorpha) to the tank, placing it up on top of the highest rocks.- Leave the light on for at least 16 hours/day.
- Add at least a quart of LS from another healthy tank to reseed your sand with life.
- Take a sample of water to the LFS to check Alkalinity and Calcium.
- Buy some Alkalinity and Calcium test kits and compare your test results to the LFS
- Measure the inside of the canopy and if there is at least 49" inside dimension, do the light that we spoke of, the "Walmart Special". Or lose the canopy and just set the light on top.
- Continue adding Garlic Oil to the frozen food at least once every two weeks.
- Within 5-10 days after adding the new light, add 30 snails and 10 hermits.
- Get some soft coral frags from other tanks in Vernal if you can find some. I know there are at least 2 other people from this MB in Vernal or Duchene.
How much food do you feed?
I agree that some vegetable food for the Blue Tang is very necessary Nori and Romaine lettuce are both good to use. Wrap an elastic around the pieces on a small rock.
That's enough for now.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: ljbs
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 10:20pm
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I just found this other post about things dieing. Sorry to hear it. When I first started in the hobby the hydrometer I was using to test salinity wasn't very accurate. When I checked with a different one I also found that my salinity was very low like yours. I wasn't only lossing snails but fish as well. When I got the salinity corrected the problem stopped. I still have problems keeping snails for very long and I'm not sure why. I'm often told they just don't live very long since they are often collected in cold waters rather than in warmer water like we keep our tanks. I also keep my temp between a low of 77 at night and high of 80 in the daytime under the lights.
------------- Linda Spencer West Jordan From My little corner of the sea |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 10:30pm
| Where do I get macro alage from? I will post on here that I need live healthy sand and put that in on sat. I will take a water sample out and have the aquarium test it. And will get the ballist this week also if u can help me rig it up. Ur really good to tell all that from pictures. Thanks again so much for everything |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 10:39pm
Eureka!!!! I knew a good hobbyist lived out by you. As soon as possible I would go over and see Arthur. Ask him for some Macroalgae and LS. He will be a wonderful resource to help your tank get back up to health and start looking amazing.
Two more things:
- Don't worry right now about doing a Refugium. It's not necessary and you can add it later if you need. Right now the tank needs some immediate TLC that can be effectively done without a Refugium.
- Read this thread and look in the Tips and How to's section at the thread of pics of my Refugium-less tanks: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: ljbs
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 10:45pm
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I can give you some live sand on Saturday when you visit. I don't have macroalgae so if you are going to the aquarium ask about it there. If you go to the aquarium before you come to my house call me for easier directions. I'm glad that you are working with Mark. He helped my a lot when I got started.
------------- Linda Spencer West Jordan From My little corner of the sea |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 10:46pm
| HOw do I find arthur on this web site? As soon as I get a hold of him I will get those things from him as long as he will give me some. I will wait on the refugium as u say and just get the lightsa set up and do everything u saiD. Thanks agaiN |
Posted By: sterling18
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 10:48pm
Should be ok. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 11:07pm
|
Arthur answered in your other post.
Edit - whoops I thought he said Vernal when he actually said Tooele. Sorry wrong direction.
 Gotta go. wife wants to go for an evening stroll.
PM(Private Message) him your phone number or ask him to PM you for his. The PM option comes up when you click on his forum name to the left of his post in the other thread.
I know it's getting late for y'all. I'm 3 hours behind you. It's just 7PM here. Missed going down to the ocean today. But we are very very happy about being here just the same.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 11:12pm
| Mark has helped me a lot. He is a really nice guy and willing to help anyone. Its hard to find people like that anymore. Before I found this web site everyone wouldn't tell me anything and didn't care thAt my tank needed tlc. I couldn't have found out all this information with out everyone on here willing to help. I hipe I get to the poing that I can return the favor to someone that needs help like I do. Everyone on here is so nice and willing to help any way they can. Thanks for the live sand I guess I killed mine. Will the aquarium test my water? I have never asked them that before. Can u buy macRo alage? |
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 08 2010 at 11:26pm
| We are all jelous that your there and wish we could go to the beach everyday and have the warm weather like you. Guess you can enjoy it for all of us in this cold state |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: March 09 2010 at 12:00am
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If you could make it out here I have tons that I just throw away weekly when I harvest. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 09 2010 at 3:08pm
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I know there are some good hobbyists around Vernal. I just looked on the 2009 member list and there are no paid members out that way. But I'm sure there are some hobbyists registered on the MB living there. I wonder if someone in the presidency could look it up for Nicole. She could then just look them up in the phone book. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 10 2010 at 1:43pm
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Was just looking again at the pics you sent. I looked at the pic of the inside of the hood. It's very dark and didn't show anything, or so I thought. You have the full glass covers on! You didn't know it but that keeps the tank pH down which is not healthy at all. What would be best is if you can remove the entire cover and just have the lights sit on the edges of the frame.
Did you re-postion the powerheads yet? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: mashfan
Date Posted: March 10 2010 at 2:07pm
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I will do that right now. I have repositioned the power heads. I have a few people that is giving me macro algae and ls on sat when I go to salt lake. I have fed the tank the garlic once already and not much change but I will continue to feed it to him. I have been leaving the light on longer and taking a sample of water to the aquartium and have them test it as well get a kit on sat while out there.
I just need info on how to build those lights so I can get bulbs in salt lake and info on which ballest I need to order from the web page u sent me. I also had one question. I won't be able to get snails and crabs 5 - 10 days after sitting up lights unless I order them online from saltwaterfish.com. I can get them in salt lake on sat but the lights r not set up yet so didn't know if it had to be with in that specific day period. Let me know how to build the lights and snails and crabs and what kind of snails and crabs I should get. There are some snails on ksl.com that were blue legged and snails that were nassarius or cerith. I have gotten the salinity up to 1.025 and going to get another hydrometer to double check the reading also new filters for my ro system to make sure my water is being filtered. I hope that all will help. Let me know if you can by sat what I need for lights and snails and crabs what u would like me to do. Thanks so much for your help again. |