Tap water reef tank
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Forum Name: Reef Chemistry
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44318
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Topic: Tap water reef tank
Posted By: SumpCrab
Subject: Tap water reef tank
Date Posted: October 28 2010 at 11:37pm
| Hello, in the process of setting up a new tank (prob my 5th in the past 15 years) and really don't want to use an RO unit. I did have one on my last 125g reef but always had trouble maintaining ca and alk. So I got to thinking that it does not make much sense to deplete the water of these things just to add them back again (often with frustration) if there are any PO4 or N3 issues one would think that macro algea (which I always grow as my primary filtration) and the sand bed would deal with just fine. I mean EVERY DAY you add much more of those nutrients via food additions that you would ever find in 2-3 gallons of tap water lost to evaporation. I thus tend to think that tap water is not the evil that people make it out to be, often these individuals don't realize that it takes 6-12 months for a tank to mature to the point that algea growth stalls and thus blame their source water for the excess nutrients! To realize how absurd that is just take your standard amount of daily evap replacement water and add your daily tank feedings to it. Talk about nutrient soup. The primary component of the disolved solids in our tap water out here is CA!!!! You see it build up on your shower head and then filter it off! |
Replies:
Posted By: davser
Date Posted: October 28 2010 at 11:52pm
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i used ro water when i first set up my tank and used ro water for 6 months and from those 6 months until now which is almost 7 or 8 months i use tap water and nothing changed no algae blooms or fish deaths or corals i did kills some fish but that was for somwthing else so i really dont think using tap water is that big of a deal ------------- It's not about what you know but about who you know |
Posted By: SumpCrab
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 12:56am
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Also if one is concerned about "toxic metals" (oooohhh scary sounding) then be advised that our tap water PH is too high in most cases to release them from pipes. I think the decision to use a RO unit is an emotional reaction more than anything else. I will let everyone know how my reef works out without one so just follow this thread! |
Posted By: SumpCrab
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 12:58am
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Also IMO removing the natural buffering compounds and "trace elements" from our water to then just add them back in is silly. Macro algea and corals should export any abundance of these elements if they exist. |
Posted By: SumpCrab
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 1:04am
| Ohhh and also just wanted to mention that the chemical constituents of our ocean water is the sum of our "ATO" tap water rivers flowing into them for billions of years... |
Posted By: SGH360
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 1:18am
| Some tap water can reach up to 300 PPM of Nitrates not to mention high TDI, Tap water also come with chloramines and chlorine, some heavy metals and some pesticides not to mentions other chemicals, if you use Prime or other type of dechlonator you should be fine if you want you can check your city website to find more about what its inside the tap water. Centerville has really decent tap water only around 3 PPM of NO3 and around 180 TDI. I used tap water for filling up my new tank around 10 gallons and the rest RO i would not see a problem adding all of your water to be tap water just make sure its neutralized before mixing with the salt |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 1:43am
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In Farmington they add certain chemicals to treat the water at different times of the year. Some of them cause a brown stinky slime algae to grow. If you've ever had an issue like that that gets worst every time you top off then you know how important the RO is. My nano in Bountiful is done only with tap water. However that is about to change. My levels are off and I cant seam to get them back in control. So Ill start hauling water to Bountiful to see if I can get them to level out. There are many reasons to use RO water. Coming around saying its a "VOODOO" type of thing is both ridiculous and possibly dangerous. There are many hobiest that get cynao growth that gets out of control, Change from tap to RO and greatly improve there tanks. There are many ways to maintain a tank. No one thing is the magic bullet and NO ONE has the only way to do it. ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: arthuriv
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 2:54am
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I have a 55 gallon tank with a 15 gallon sump, a 210 gallon tank with a 40 gallon sump and a 30 gallon tank all started up with tap water and still running only tap water. I use Aqua Safe or the Instant Ocean brand to treat it before use. I usually also have the water circulating in a 30 gallon rubbermaid container 24/7. So when I need to top off my tanks I just take it from there. ------------- Quality Marines Aquaculturing & Captive Breeding program! Presented by Ashley & Chelsea from Reef On Thursday 6 Oct 2016 |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 8:32am
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Welcome SumpCrab. You said you had trouble maintaining Alk and Ca in a previous reef aquarium. I'd like to hear more about those difficulties to see if we can help. I agree that it seems a little silly to remove the good components of tap water, Alk, Ca, Mg, etc., only to later add them back in. You will find that your concept is already accepted here in the WMAS. Many of us have done this with no problems. Though as was stated, we take a risk when we use tap water for long periods like a year or more. From time to time tap water has chemicals that wouldn't harm humans, but do affect coral and fish. When using tapwater, there is a simple trick to getting it cleaner very inexpensively, while leaving the good stuff. In 5 gallons of tap water, simply stir in a little less than a tablespoon of Kalkwasser/Pickling Lime/Calcium Hydroxide powder, let it settle for a few hours and use the resulting clear water. Kalkwasser combines with some of the impurities causing them to precipitate out of solution. Have you heard of Kold-Steril http://www.poly-bio-marine.com - http://www.poly-bio-marine.com . This system uses a filter media that cleans the tap water of harmful impurities. I know of a beautiful 180 gal reef tank that has used this system of water purification for 9 years. The unique advantage of this system is that it leaves the major elements of Alk, Ca, Mg, etc. in the purified water and produces absolutely no waste water. Speaking of waste water, did you know that the waste water that RO units send down the drain is actually needed by the sewage treatment plants? Every gallon of good water sent into the pipes, means one less gallon of tap water that needs to be added back into the process at the sewage treatment plant. Hope this helps.  Just for the fun of showing off my friends tank in Centerville, here's a pic from that 180 using Kold-Steril purified water.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 9:54am
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180 gallon reef in Centerville? Hmmm....Is this person someone we know? ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 10:14am
| I wouldn't chance using tap water for top off, because I don't do enough water changes. But I almost always use 100% tap water, treated with Prime, when I setup a new tank and sometimes when I do water changes. |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 10:14am
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The 180 in Centerville is Rick Bangerter... he's not around here much anymore.
Hey SumpCrab- you are welcome to come see my tank anytime. It is thriving, healthy, and I couldn't ask for more..... and I only use tap water.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 10:20am
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I agree with Dion. Coming on here and spouting off at the mouth that we are idiots for using RO water is DUMB! Go ahead and run your tank with tap water. Then come back on here asking us how to fix your problems. We will all gladly help to save your tank at that point. On my first tank I used tap water. I lived in Draper and we had to have the city pump water up to us in Suncrest. The water was pretty darn "clean". It didn't have many nutrients in it but man it caused issues for me for months! Go ahead and ask Mark about his trip from Bountiful to Draper to come save my tank. You can't test what metals are in the water, whether they come from your pipes or not. Majority of cities add Fluoride to their water also. That can't be good for a tank. Also, do you know what the alkalinity is made up of in tap water? Does tap water have high amounts of Borate? If so, you will read a high alk when really the alkalinity will be low. That could become very dangerous for your tank and its' inhabitants. Algae and the sand bed CAN NOT remove some minerals or heavy metals. Sure for the first 6 months you might not see any issues but them WHAM you add some more tap water and hit the toxic level of something that has just been building up in your tank. But don't worry, your algae will "take care of it." You weren't having issues keeping Ca and Alk in balance because of using RO water. You probably weren't dosing properly and your Magnesium was probably too low. Do you know that low Mg will make it almost impossible to keep Ca and Alk in range? I suggest you ask questions and study about how chemistry works in a reef before jumping on RO water and telling people they are dumb for removing all this "good" stuff. I will gladly continue to remove all that "good" stuff so that I can have pure water going into my tank. Feeding my fish and dumping tap water in my tank are two different concepts. My fish eat the food then poop it out. The poop and other left over food feeds my corals. Tap water won't feed either of them, but it will probably feed your algae. |
Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 2:22pm
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While on the topic of tab water. what would happen if you used soft water? ------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 2:31pm
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I used to use tap and my tank did fine. Then I came across a cheap RO unit on KSL and now I use RO and it does fine. One difference that I did notice is that I used to have a brown film that covered the glass unless I cleaned it off every day. Now I find myself grabbing the magfloat about one a week. Also Im definatly no water chemistry expert, but most salt companies do have a chemist or two working for them making sure that their product does have the right amount of trace elements for a sucessful reef, and as far as I know, they do recommend mixing their salt with RO. Anyway, welcome to the club sumpcrab. You seem pretty passionate about your theory, so keep us updated on how things go ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Will Spencer
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 2:40pm
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I can see the benefits of using both RO and Tap Water. First of all it depends on where your water is coming from and what has been added before it gets to you. I certainly would not use tap water if I lived in Magna or Riverton. They have all kinds of stuff in their water, to the point where I find it undrinkable. In West Jordan I use RO water for my home reef and things have done very really well for over 10 years. When I worked in Murray I used only tap water in my office tank and basically broke all the rules of good reefkeeping and had a great tank. I used tapwater only, as I said, and topped off every other week or so with 20 - 25 gallons of water in a 150 gallon tank. I filled 2 5-gallon buckets at a time and dumped them into the tank with absolutely no additives such as Prime, ever. I didn't check temp or anything else. I did a total of 10 water changes in the 8 years it was up and the tank thrived. One thing I did find is that the few SPS I had in the tank grew very fast. I had a 1" x 1" frag of Plating Monti that grew into a 1' x 2' coral with 30 to 40 plates over the course of about 3 years. Obviously there was plenty of CA for it. I also had a cool black branching sponge that grew out of control on the bottom of the tank. I don't know if this had anything to with the tap water or not. I also use only tap water in my FOWLR tank in West Jordan at my home. However, the algae does get out of control and has to be cleaned out rather often. |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 2:45pm
Your crabs and snails wont hafta use as much shampoo to get their hair clean  ------------- Life is good....right? |
Lewy wrote:Posted By: Chris Scott
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 2:52pm
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I used to use tap, but switched to RO recently. I haven't noticed anything drastic, but I've had less issues such as cyano and other algae blooms. Those could be because of other things as well, but I think partially the RO has been beneficial. If I run out of RO, I'll still top off with tap from time to time. ------------- 55g Bowfront Corner Reef |
Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 2:53pm
Not quite what I meant but funny still the same. What I mean is, doesn't the softwater unit take out the carbonite hardness/ALK? I'm asking because I honestly don't know. ------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: Will Spencer
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 2:58pm
| Yes, the carbonate and Alk are replaced by sodium in this case. You are better off to use un-softened tap water, which is what I have always used. |
Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 3:03pm
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Hu...didn't know that's what happens. Thanks. So if I put say magnesium chloride in soft water would that raise the salinity? The extra sodium combines with the chlorine to make salt? I think I've thought of an experiment for tonight. ------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 3:17pm
You don't like that he came on here and basically claimed that people are idiots for using RO water, but then you turn around and essentially tell him he's an idiot for using tap water...........  Like was said earlier, it depends on what's in your tap water. I use a simple 2 stage RO unit and I've never had a problem. I think some people do go too far in trying to purify and sterilize everything in their tank, only to have to dose a lot of lost nutrients back into the now sterile tank. If tap water works for you then go for it! It's all in the eye of the beholder, what some people claim is a successful reef tank is not the same thing other people claim as a successful reef tank and the journey to get their is different with every tank..... ------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |
Posted By: Chris Scott
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 3:29pm
yea I agree with Ben. I don't think he was calling us all idiots. No need to get so upset dude! 
------------- 55g Bowfront Corner Reef |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 3:32pm
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Like I said. There isnt ONE way to do anything. And No ONE person knows the best of anything. (Sorry Mark) ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: SGH360
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 3:42pm
and if there was one way and one person knew everything then it would no longer be fun
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Posted By: MRyno
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 4:04pm
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I have to say that the perceived "evil" here is chlorine and fluoride which are added to water supplies of a lot of cities to clean the water and your teeth! :-) Here in Utah (provo at least for sure), those aren't added in noticeable amounts to the tap water supply and therefore, it isn't a problem. As a general rule in a random city, don't use the tap water, BUT as a more specific rule here in Provo and possibly all of Utah, the rule is to feel free to use tap water. I generally use it to top off evaporation water, but I still try to use mostly RO and premixed salt water for water changes. I really don't see harm in using tap water as long as it doesn't contain those chemicals. I even think that, like has already been said, there is some value in using tap water. I noticed changes in my tank when I used tap water. Levels were better maintained and my coral looked better (may or may not be my imagination). That is my two cents.
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 4:27pm
No I called him an idiot for the way he went about it. A simple "hey guys, I'm gonna run my tank with tap water. How many of you do this?" Would have been just fine. But he decided to tell people that heavy metals aren't found in tap water and that those of us that use ro water do it out of an emotional reaction. I use RO water based on fact. It is safer to use and has helped my tanks immensely. If others want to use tap water, fine. I don't expect their tanks to look great to my eyes nor will I see them keeping any hard SPS. Montis and birdsnests are easier than most lps and softies. Once they take hold, they are weeds. They are also the first to show signs of issues which is very nice. |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 5:12pm
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 6:46pm
 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 29 2010 at 7:00pm
Actually that's not true. I've had 4 tanks and kept all 4 differently. I just don't care for the rock wall, softie dominated tanks. I had one and it was boring. When it comes to maintaining hard to keep corals, there are certain ways that work better than others. If you want to keep gonioporas or sea fans, you must feed a lot and therefore you need good nutrient export. Many ways to skin a cat, MANY ways |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 30 2010 at 12:26am
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Hmm where did Jeff's post go? I can just chill out on RC, that is fine with me. |
Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: October 30 2010 at 12:27am
Jeff posted something and I missed it  ------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: October 30 2010 at 2:20am
Well played my friend  ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: October 30 2010 at 10:24am
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Ryan I deleted that post because i was just messing with you and just trying to lighten things up alittle. I actually think youre a smart guy I do agree with most of the things you say on here. I just wish you would post some pics to back up your claims. I do believe you used to have a rock wall softie dominated tank that you got bored with, so now you just grow sps and have great success with amazing growth and color. Hey here's an idea....You posted a pic of your tank in your tank thread back in April. One of the pics shows a close up of a vida rock with 5 little sps frags glued to it. How about pulling out the camera right now, and taking a pic of the same rock and posting it on this thread, so we can see how much those frags have grown in the past 6 months. Would you be willing to do that? You know what they say, a pic is worth 1000 words... ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 30 2010 at 5:21pm
Hey jeff, I have been at work all day. I get off at 5 and will be home about 6 or so. I will snap some quick pics of the vida rock for you then. The majority of the growth has been all encrusting, almost no vertical growth. I have also been fighting red bugs in my tank. I will get some pics when I get home. |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: October 31 2010 at 12:49pm
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Wow Ryan, your tank looks really good. The frogspawn and acans look like they are really taking off. Im actually quite suprised that the lps are growing so good in such low nutrient tank. It must have something to do with the vodka dosing and bacterial driven system that I really dont understand? Man, i really need to learn more about this method. Anyway, very nice. Your tank looks blue'er to me than in your last pics. Did you change your bulb selection? ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 31 2010 at 3:51pm
Jeff, Thanks for the kind words. One of the biggest myths about a ULNS tank is that there is no food because there are no nutrients. There just aren't enough nutrients to feed algae. Algae is what browns corals out, well that and too yellow of light IME. In a bacteria driven system, there is a TON of food for the corals to uptake. There is a constant supply of planktonic food for the corals to eat. I still feed my acans regularly though with either pellets or mysis shrimp. I firmly believe that acans MUST be fed to maintain health over a long period of time. You have to remember that acans eat like crazy in the wild. They have an abundance of food to chow on. To put them in our tanks and suppose that they only need light, is crazy talk. I will try to to put together a bacteria driven system thread later today and tonight. I know that jcom is also running his tank(s) with this method so it will be nice to see who all chimes in on the topic. It is a very easy system IMO. Much easier than weekly water changes and harvesting algae all the time. I timed it the other day just to prove that this system isn't as "time constraining" as people think. In total, it took me 30 seconds to dose my tank. I added my Alk in the morning and then added Vodka, MB7 and Calcium when I got home from work. On certain days I add Strontium and Lugol's Solution, so add on another 10 seconds every 3-4 days. Hope that answers some questions for you. Since we have totally derailed this thread, I will leave it be from this point on. Look for my post some time tonight and we can discuss things in length at that point.
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Posted By: SumpCrab
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 12:31am
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Well I am glad to see this thread has caught the attention of all the prominent reefers here. I have been busy with my build and am now in the final stages of plumbing and electrical work. Hopefully the "go wet date" will be sometime this weekend. Here is what the system will consist of, I'll try to get some pics up later.
40g breeder w/ 30 gallon custom acrylic sump (more of a mangrove macro algea "swamp" with frags of course
lighting for the 40 is 4x95 watt VHOS (2x actinic, 1x 454 and 1x 75.25) + 1 250W XM 10K
Lighting for the mangrove swamp is 1 250W XM halide
( I decided on VHO over T5's due to the fact that you can actually fit more PAR into the same space as T5's when you factor in the size of the T5 reflectors... what a joke. There is no way 4 T5s (of the same type) will be giving me more par then these VHOs)
50lbs tokota dead rock
50lbs dead BRS rock tonga branch mostly
100lbs of live rock
There will also be a 30g long for a QT tank (I decided I am never dealing with ICH again, ever!)
NO skimmer
NO RO unit
NO mech filtration
IMO Macro algea, PAR and patience is all that is (really) needed for a great reef tank. I will probably run some carbon here and there
cheers,
SumpCrab
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Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 12:35am
Not to be negative at all, because I firmly believe in doing things how they work best for the individual. But I'm sure any PAR meter and decent set of T5's would prove you wrong there. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: SumpCrab
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 12:59am
| I would love to believe that (because my damn VHOs stick out an inch from the side of my tank) but I just dont. After reading posts about how T5 users switched back to VHO actinics I can only assume its because the VHOs put out more light. I am not saying that T5s are not more efficient in terms of par/watts but when you consider par/space I would be willing to wager that a 95w VHO bulb beats a 54w T5 hands down. Its the size of the reflectors that really turned me off -- at 2.75" I could be running a t12 at 2". As an aside, I could not find one post where someone actually did a comparison with a par meter. Please point me to one if you can. |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 1:49am
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If you're going to run more than 1 bulb T5's are definitely your choice. T5's put out much more light, due to a higher lumens per watt than T12 VHO. A typical 54 watt T5 bulb produces around 92.6 lumens per watt. A typical 95 watt T12 VHO puts out 67.8 lumens per watt. A 95 watt UVL Aquasun T12 VHO measures at 345 PAR where an ATI 54 watt Aquablue measures at 336 PAR (measurements by Grim reefer). But on the space issue I guess the T12's do take up less room if you're not going to run reflectors. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 8:13am
Well like I said in my other post, you seem to have studied up on how RO units are a waste of time and money. Now youve studied up on how t12s are a better bulb choice than t5s. Nice  Okay, its the weekend, time to set up that great tapwater, skimmer-less, mech filtration-less, High PAR driven reeftank. Good luck with the set-up. Be sure to post pics in the tank build section. Im sure there are many of us who have (aparently) spent way too much money on worthless RO units, skimmers, and T5 set-ups who will be watching to see how things turn out....------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 8:49am
I will try to find my link later if I can. Grim reefer over on reef central has done a comparison between t5 and vho. T5s kill vho in light output. It is not even close in terms of PAR. Now with a 250w halide you don't necessarily need the PAR. Vho actinics put out almost zero usable light. All they do is make the corals fluoresce. I don't know why you would put a 48" bulb over a 36" tank however. The best reflectors on the market are only 2" wide so they take up the same space as the vho. I'm sure you will love the vho and halide combo but some research would show that vhos really don't put out that much light compared to a good t5 setup. Actinics are not meant to put out PAR, the blue t5 bulbs are the highest PAR t5 bulbs you can get. I am running 4 t5s over my 40 gallon breeder and keep anything I want. My ati sunpower is producing the same if not more PAR than a 250w halide at almost 1/3 the electricity and no heat into the tank. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 9:46am
Why is the comparison of PAR between an Aquasun VHO and an Aquablue T5? Those are different spectrums, are they not? Also, isn't it true that PAR meters look for light that benefits terrestrial plants? Unless I'm mistaken, PAR meters do not read much of the 400+ nm, the light that coral need the most. This tells me that we should not base these decisions solely on PAR. And my last question/comment is regarding reflectors and efficiency. The VHO tube most used today has an internal reflector which has been found to be very efficient. Contrary to a comment made above, all coral do great with VHO lighting. This hobby is made up of individuals as different as their lighting preferences. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 10:02am
Mark you are right in a couple points but let me shed some light (pun intended) PAR sensors commonly over read red spectrum and under read blues. Like you mentioned. However PAR meters don't care where the light comes from or what that light was made for. It simply reads how much light is actually hitting the sensor. I have no doubts that VHO can keep coral but the OP insisted that T5's can't put out more PAR than a VHO. That isn't the case. Internal reflectors are decent at best. To say they are very efficient is misleading. If an internal reflector is very efficient then what is a good external reflector? Super-duper fantabulous efficient? PAR readings between an internally reflected T5 bulb and an externally reflected bulb are a joke. The internally reflected bulb can't punch through more than 12" of water. I wish I had the numbers that Grim came up with but that would me hours to dig up. An externally reflected T5 bulb is more efficient and puts out better numbers than a T12 VHO. Not to mention better bulb choices and much less money. Last time I checked T12's were like $35 a bulb and they only last 6 months. I will take T5 long before T12. |
Posted By: Jake Pehrson
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 10:39am
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Let me start out by saying I only skimmed the above posts. I have run tanks on RO water and tap water. It is very possible to run a tank successfully on tap water although I think running them on RO is a much better option. Tap water is a gamble. You cannot control what is coming into your tank (oh, and I agree with Mark. Adding Kalk to your tap water is a great idea and cheap). My tanks have always done better with RO water. I have less algae growth and less problems. Consider how cheap it is to get an RO unit and how cheap kalkwasser can be compared to the money some of us spending buying corals and fish. ------------- Jake Pehrson Murray http://coralplanet.com" rel="nofollow - coralplanet.com http://utahbeeranch.com" rel="nofollow - :) |
Posted By: Jake Pehrson
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 10:48am
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I skimmed so much I missed the entire lighting discussion.
VHOs used to be my bulb of choice. I now use T5s and halides (sometimes together and othertimes not). VHOs were awesome 10 years ago. They still work well and if you have VHOs you don't need to switch to T5s, but for a new setup I see no reason to use VHOs.
I agree with Ryan about the internal vs external reflector. External reflectors are much better. The reason why internal reflectors were great for VHOs is that they didn't take up a lot of room. A good external reflector for a VHO took up way too much room. T5s are a different story. ------------- Jake Pehrson Murray http://coralplanet.com" rel="nofollow - coralplanet.com http://utahbeeranch.com" rel="nofollow - :) |