vodka dosing
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Help
Forum Name: General Help
Forum Description: The place to ask about pest, problems, hitchhikers, etc.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48259
Printed Date: April 28 2024 at 3:27am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: vodka dosing
Posted By: BnK
Subject: vodka dosing
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 2:35am
Does anyone do it here? what are the pros and cons of it? And what kind, also how much? Just saw some articles on it and interested in it. I know dosing vodka and cranberry juice helps me some times lol  ------------- Brett and Kristine | Layton, UT | Brett's e-mail: [email protected] | Kristine's e-mail: [email protected] |
Replies:
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 8:58am
|
I dosed for over 8 months and loved it! Be ready though, it is not for the faint of heart. It takes a lot of time and patience at the beginning as you get everything dialed in. For the first month or so you need to test almost 3x/week. When you start dosing vodka your tank has to acclimate to the changes and corals stop using the Alk and Calcium. It is recommended that you 2 part dose or have a calcium reactor as well when using this system. Once the corals start taking in the Cal and Alk, they take in A LOT and grow pretty quick. I also recommend dosing a bacteria product of some kind. I used MicoBacter7 from Brightwell Aquatics. I would use ZeoBak from Zeovit if I were to start dosing again. Aquatic Dreams is your best bet if you want to talk to someone who knows a lot about dosing. Ryan doses his main tank and I talk to him about every time I go up there. There is SO SO SO much to learn before you start dosing. It can be overwhelming at first but once you get dialed in, it is amazing. http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38114&PN=1 That is a link to my build thread where I dosed. I think there are some other links in there that will help you out as well. Here is another thread I started that is all about dosing Vodka. http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44375 Hope that helps! |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 9:03am
|
I agree with pretty much everything Ryan said there. Just read read read and read some more. The when you do it make sure you don't cut corners, use a good skimmer and test often. I also use MB7 along with Reef Biofuel in place of vodka (it's pretty much the same thing just more concentrated). ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 9:31am
You could also dose some vodka into some orange juice once in a while! Drip this mixture orally into your system at about about 0.5 liters per hour for a couple of hours every Saturday. Your tank will look great!
 Good luck. Please keep us posted on your progress. Oh - and listen to Ryan. I'm confident he knows what he's talking about - most of the time. |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 10:01am
|
Now that's a great idea! ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: BnK
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 10:19am
|
Well I will for sure read those and look more into it. and was headed down to aquatic dreams today also, so will pick ryans brain on it also. Nothing I will jump into now. I use fuel right now and that is it. Im gettin started to read up on dosing methods for my tank now. I won a bottle of sodium bicarbonate and calcium chloride at fragstock so figured i should learn how to use them. thanx for all the help and info guys ------------- Brett and Kristine | Layton, UT | Brett's e-mail: [email protected] | Kristine's e-mail: [email protected] |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 3:32pm
|
I've been watching this for years. A few weeks ago when seti007 and I were looking at jcom's vodka dosed tank and I saw the kind of bacterial growth that I had in my coral farming system in 2004-2007 before I sold it all and got married, I finally realized that the reason my coral farm did so well was because I was doing almost the same thing. My form of carbon was different but it had the same result. Instead of a concentrated form of carbon, carbohydrate or sugar as in Vodka dosing, I was dosing Phyto and micro foods continuously. Everything grew fast and had good color. So, the conclusion I have arrived at is that it doesn't have to be Vodka. Any form of carbon will do. Here is a good article about carbon dosing. http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/probiotics-demystified - http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/probiotics-demystified ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
|
Posted By: saltlaketank
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 2:37pm
|
wow good to know. we read about this and we read a lot, we started dosing our corals early on and they are very happy. we use a syringe. makes it easy ------------- JayDee 8016042780 90 Gallon 30 Gallon sump G3 Skimmer |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 3:34pm
|
Also be aware that if you screw up it can and will result in total destruction!
------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 3:35pm
This is also true. It's definitely not for someone who can't watch their tank and test often. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Dion Richins wrote:Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 4:36pm
| I have been dosing vodka/mb7 for like 5 months... no ill effects, only praise from me so for |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 4:38pm
|
It definitely does work. I use Reef Biofuel (a liquid carbon source) and MB7 and love it. I tried the biopellets first, and they did work it was just too much work to keep them from clumping together. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 5:30pm
Welcome to reefing! Overdosing alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, potassium, strontium, iodine/iodide, freshwater, saltwater, and/or a food source will all result in the same thing. Like anything in this hobby, go SLOW and take your time making changes. Nothing good happens overnight in this hobby. It is all about patience and stability. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 7:18pm
|
Adding carbon in the form of phyto paste and micro foods is much, much safer. I've always worked at doing the best for my tanks with the least amount of effort and risk.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 7:47pm
| Vitamin C acts as a carbon source as well. It's relatively safe as long as you buy the right kind. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 3:45pm
|
I wasn't aware of that. What is the right kind?
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 3:55pm
|
I'm pretty sure that vitamin c isn't a carbon source. I've been researching this for over 3 years and ran it for over 8 months. I've never once heard of vitamin c as a carbon source. My thought is that certain brands might have sugar in their pills and that will act as the carbon source. |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 4:05pm
|
Well im not an expert on the matter but here is randy farely talking about it. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1338359&highlight=vitamin+c - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1338359&highlight=vitamin+c Most people on RC use the iherb brand. http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=10178&at=0 - http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=10178&at=0 |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 4:09pm
|
No offense to any one on this board but I trust what randy says. He is after all a reef chemist.
|
Posted By: TriggerHappy
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 4:46pm
|
I use the iherb brand (Buffered Sodium Ascorbate) and have always looked at it as a carbon source. ------------- 210 gallon Mixed Reef |
Posted By: BnK
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 5:14pm
|
K ive been dosing fuel 1 to 2 times a week. I want to start dosing some other things if I need to. What are some things I should start with,how much,what are some good brands. I right now also have a 32oz of calcuim chloride they are aquatic tranqulity and sodium bicarbonate also. i won them from frag stock. ------------- Brett and Kristine | Layton, UT | Brett's e-mail: [email protected] | Kristine's e-mail: [email protected] |
Posted By: TriggerHappy
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 5:34pm
|
How long has the tank be established. What do you want to dose and why? ------------- 210 gallon Mixed Reef |
Posted By: BnK
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 5:47pm
|
since beginnning of feb it was a established tank. move was fast and had small cycle. had couple bumps but doin very good for last month. I will take readings and post lil later. i got a couple colonies of sps. along with other frags. I dont want to dose if I dont need to. I use fuel once to twice a week.If it is to early then that is good would save me money lol. ------------- Brett and Kristine | Layton, UT | Brett's e-mail: [email protected] | Kristine's e-mail: [email protected] |
Posted By: ptronsp
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 5:51pm
We use to dose with Vodka and had no problems what so ever. It worked great for us but now we do not dose with Vodka. It seems like it's an ever changing cycle we have with different products. 
|
Posted By: TriggerHappy
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 5:53pm
|
Yes, please post up some more info and I'm sure you'll get a ton of help. ------------- 210 gallon Mixed Reef |
Posted By: BnK
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 5:58pm
|
Yea pam I was gonna do the vodka dosing but I am just not comfortable yet to do something like that. I do want to in the future so i will read up more on it and want to visit with someone that does it and just gather more info. Im looking into gettin a reactor and bio-pellets soon. All my corals seem to be doin good had a couple casalites cuz dumb crabs knocking them off and they hit my torch or end up in the sand. But besides that they are growing. I will for sure take readings and will post as soon as i do ------------- Brett and Kristine | Layton, UT | Brett's e-mail: [email protected] | Kristine's e-mail: [email protected] |
Posted By: ptronsp
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 6:04pm
|
When we first got in the hobby it was a guy names Chris that has showed us how he dosed with Vodka, we decided to try what he suggested from the very beginning and it went well. Just ask as many questions as you need too, people will be great with giving you answers. |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 6:23pm
| Well you only need to dose what your tank is using up. With that said most people have to dose cal, alk and periodically mag. Or have a reactor or use kalkwasser. Almost every tank will use Cal and alk farely quickly. Other than that you have to test to see what needs to be supplemented or replaced from water changes. To get increased coral growth or fix problems there are other supplements. Until your having problems or looking for specific results they are not a necessity though. |
Posted By: BnK
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 7:49pm
|
k here is my readings HAGEN MASTER TEST KIT temp-78 salinty-1.026 cal-500 nitrite-0.1 nitrate- think 10 but not sure it is bright purple and there is not really a purple that bright to me on the color chart. ph-8.1 kh-190 iron (non chelated) and (chelated) 0 phosphates-0.25 ammonia-0 I also got this frag prolly a month ago it has done real well then all the sudden been gettin white spots here is a pic.Its the bright orange one on the right  ------------- Brett and Kristine | Layton, UT | Brett's e-mail: [email protected] | Kristine's e-mail: [email protected] |
Posted By: saltlaketank
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 8:02pm
|
I wonder what you people who have dosed with vodka find to be a good level to maintain and how much you would dose, how often to get there. ------------- JayDee 8016042780 90 Gallon 30 Gallon sump G3 Skimmer |
Posted By: BnK
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 8:16pm
|
saltlaketank Look at the second post of the thread ryan gives a link. ------------- Brett and Kristine | Layton, UT | Brett's e-mail: [email protected] | Kristine's e-mail: [email protected] |
Posted By: builderofdreams
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 8:28pm
|
I read the link that Ryan posted and i am going to have to admit
I did not understand 98% of it.
Conclusion at least with my tank "If it's not Broke don't Fix it".
Not reallyunderstanding the benefit of doing this,nor the actual conclusion of the Link that Ryan posted.Guess i am an idiot.  ------------- It's Not a Hobby It's an Obsession 150&210 Gallons of Madness and. Sanity! 801-850-4915 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65135&title=builderofdreams-feedback-post |
Posted By: builderofdreams
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 8:48pm
------------- It's Not a Hobby It's an Obsession 150&210 Gallons of Madness and. Sanity! 801-850-4915 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65135&title=builderofdreams-feedback-post |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 9:07pm
You're definitely NOT an idiot Paul. It's just a different filtration system for running a reef. One where you don't need a refugium, algae or anything like that. The bacteria consume nitrate and phosphate and then are skimmed out. You regulate the bacterial population by regulating a key ingredient of their food supply which in this case is organic carbon (vodka, sugar, etc.) ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 9:24pm
Yeah your not an idiot dude. This link isn't meant to explain or even give directions on how to use vitamin c. It is simply meant as a reference to the fact vit c can be used as an organic carbon source. |
Posted By: builderofdreams
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 9:48pm
Ok.Thanks for putting in terms i can understand.
I have read horror stories of overdosing with vodka.
To me it does not seem to be any cheaper (maybe i am wrong) than using Phosgaurd.
At least with the Phosgaurd i do not have to worry about nuking the tank if I screw up.
I personally do not run a Refugium.Just Phosgaurd and Charcoal.
------------- It's Not a Hobby It's an Obsession 150&210 Gallons of Madness and. Sanity! 801-850-4915 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65135&title=builderofdreams-feedback-post |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 10:50pm
|
I have used Brown Sugar in the past to kick a up grade off. It makes sense in some aspects. In my opinion I wouldn't use vodka even for an experiment. I have seen 3 tanks that were dosing crash horribly. 1 was controlled by dosing pumps and all three had taken every precaution they could think of. Crap happens. Its true that many things we do can result in horrible results. It is true that that's a possibility in our hobby. The forum has postings from members from time to time "throwing in the towel" because they had a leaking issue, crash from poor maintenance, dosing pumps going bad, heat, cold etc. Heck I nuked my office tank a couple months ago by leaving a space heater on. Shit will happen. However why would I raise my risk of destruction when there are safer methods? Again just my opinion. In thinking about it I guess it wouldn't be as bad if all you were doing it to was a nano. A 200g reef with thousands invested would be a risky proposition. Search Reef Central for a crap load of destruction stories. If you feel its still for you just be prepared for the possibility. ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: April 18 2011 at 12:22am
Thats why I think Vitamin C is an awesome alternative to vodka. I think as long as your not dosing alot like under 10ppm twice per day and have an adequate skimmer. There is not really a way it could crash your tank. |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: April 18 2011 at 1:42am
I don't know if I think Vit C is an adequate substitute for vodka or something like reef biofuel. I have dosed Vit C for over a year now, and never saw anywhere near the results I do dosing reef biofuel. It would seem like it should work much differently because vit c is an acid, not a complex carbon compound like sugar or ethanol. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: April 18 2011 at 7:49am
| Yeah i can understand that. Although it provides food for bacteria it might not be any where near the same amount as vodka. |
Posted By: jcom
Date Posted: April 18 2011 at 2:03pm
|
Like Mark posted above, read the article below (I read it several times before I first started dosing). I used his recipe of vodka, sugar (I got priming sugar from Beer Nut on State Stree for $0.78), and vinegar. http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/probiotics-demystified - http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/probiotics-demystified
After reading a lot of forums and other articles, it was the article above that actually gave me the confidence to go for it. I dose 1ml per day in my 120G tank along with MB7. I also seed with Prodibio ever 6 - 8 weeks just to mix up the diversity. I occasionally miss a day here and there and have gone on a couple of 3 - 4 day vacations where the tank wasn't fed or dosed at all (except ALK and Ca from my doser) and everything was fine.
As Ryan mentioned, for the first month requires very diligent testing because the ALK and Ca demand drops drastically as your system adjusts, but then the demand greatly increases and growth takes off like nothing you've ever seen....water clears...color improves (if you have quality lighting)..and the fun begins. I am a believer that a quality skimmer is an important componant as it allows for export of dead bacteria..and it's the bacteria that consumes the nasties that we don't want in our tank (phosphates and nitrates). Meanwhile, the coral absolutely love to feed on the live bacteria and they will reward you for this.
|
Posted By: rfoote
Date Posted: July 04 2011 at 9:20am
|
Silly questions as I haven't read enough on this yet,(I know it has been done for a long time, just haven't started to research it until now). I assume you are introducing some form of bacteria(ie. MB7) at the same time? I'd be a bit worried to dose straight w/out it...? Also, after a period of time wouldn't you be starving your tank of nutrients? Also, any opinions on something like BioFuel vs Vodka? Thanks! Ok, another question - I currently run a carbon and phosguard reactor. Should these be removed if I start this? and another... - looks like NP Reducing BioPellets are very effective. Anyone use these? Would they not do essentially the same thing as dosing vodka...? Thanks!
|
Posted By: rfoote
Date Posted: July 05 2011 at 11:27am
| bump - I'd like to know opinions/experiences with these carbon sources. One of my concerns is my LPS(specifically Elegance) - would I be starving them of nutrients? Thanks! |