Green hair algea
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Help
Forum Name: General Help
Forum Description: The place to ask about pest, problems, hitchhikers, etc.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56110
Printed Date: April 27 2024 at 2:35pm
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Topic: Green hair algea
Posted By: herrera
Subject: Green hair algea
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 2:46pm
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I've had a new tank up for 6 months now. My first problem was dealing with a bad Cyano outbreak, that i believe was from adding BioPellets. I took Bio pellets out. and it never got any better, so after a few weeks i gave in and used Chemiclean. Cleared it up 100% in just a few days. Everything was fine for about 3weeks. Then I started getting Bad green hair algea. I have reduced light time, replaced pc bulbs. i clean out 90% of the algea once a week, but it seems to be getting worse and worse! should i keep the lights completely off for a week? should i use GFO? ------------- 125g Aggressive tank SWC-Xtreme cone prtein skimmer 40g Sump ------------------------------ 16g Innovative Marine Reef AI led 75W |
Replies:
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 2:51pm
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We'll need more information about your tank... How big is it, do you have a sump, refugium? What fish/inverts do you have? CUC? What do you have for flow? For lighting? Basic Parameters... Ammonia? Nitrite? NITRATE? PHOSPHATE? Temperature? ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 4:30pm
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Don't forget: Ca Alk Mg PH ------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 4:50pm
True, but for hair algae and a problem this bad, it sounds like it is more likely to be caused by Nitrates or Phosphates. ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Lewy wrote:Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 4:58pm
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Generally if its a bad outbreak there won't be any nitrates or phosphates because the algae is eating it all up. ------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 7:00pm
36g No sump Picked up 15 snails 10-12 died after 2weeks! fish are fine. (black clown, flasher wrasse, royal gramma, green damsel.) temp 74f Nitrate-----will check later ammonia--will check later Phosphate 1.8 Ca 420 alk 9.6 mag ?
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Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 7:25pm
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Phosphates! Get some phosphate reducing pads or something that you can run in a filter of some kind to get rid of them. Are you using RO water for your top off and water changes? ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: McClure
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 8:40pm
| I would recommend snails. Lots of them. 40ish. |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 8:52pm
| ya i got some phosphate filter pads that i have been running in the hang on filter. no helping much. also doing weekly water changes. and yes, I'm using RO water however the cartridge has not been changed out. and i've been using for almost 2 years. not sure if i should by more snails, they're dieing very quickly. |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:56pm
| It seems like I remember high phosphates like that kills snails. You may need to run some alumina-based resin. But how did they get that high? Are you feeding too much? Can you post a picture? |
Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 11:28am
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Do you have any macro algae in the tank? When I ran a HOB filter I set up a light above it with some chaeto and it really helped. ------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 11:52am
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All of the above suggestions are great, and I would only like to add to them... Run chaeto, do water changes, cut back on feeding, and get more snails. However, until you get the phosphates down, the snails will die off, so until you get them down, don't get snails. If I remember correctly, hermit crabs are fairly hardy and shouldn't be too bothered by those phosphate levels. You also will need to change out the cartridge in your RO unit, and it may be a good idea to test the water with a TDS meter. ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 1:16pm
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How do i run Chaeto in the hob filter without it flowing over into the tank? And what about GFO? should i add this?   |
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 1:34pm
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GFO needs to be run in a reactor. You could try using activated carbon. As far as the chaeto goes, there are a few ways you can do it. If you want to create some type of screen over the outflow to keep it in place temporarily, that would work. You could also dedicate a filter solely to the purpose of being a refugium. I did this a while ago for my nano cube, but I only used what came with the filter and didn't trim the impeller. http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/diy-do-yourself/65583-i-made-diy-aquaclear-refugium-pic-heavy.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/diy-do-yourself/65583-i-made-diy-aquaclear-refugium-pic-heavy.html ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 1:35pm
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http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f97/nano-refugium-158268.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f97/nano-refugium-158268.html ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 1:46pm
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Using a small HOB filter as a refugium is a good start
I'd also do ALL of the following:
1) Get a reactor and run GFO and carbon in it. Change it out very frequently the first few weeks (like every 3 days) until your phosphates read zero.
2) Check on your TDS and make sure you don't need to change our your RO filters
3) Pull out as much of the Hair Algae as you can get out. you can even use a scissor to cut some of it off. Try to leave the remaining algae as short as possible. Longer algae develops a bitter taste as a deterrent to getting eaten.
4) After the algae has been trimmed, get a couple of good herbivorious fish like a Foxface and maybe a Tang. Get some more hermits and snails. You could even try a Sea Hare.
If you do all these things you can beat this hair algae for sure.
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 5:03pm
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The only way this is going to work is if you stop trying to do it your way and stick with our advice all the way through. You have to stick with our advice and see it all the way through. 
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 5:09pm
| Mark, I just have a couple questions. will the snails live with that high of phosphates? And don't you think there is a reason why the phosphates are so high? |
Posted By: bstuver
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 5:09pm
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Woah Mark did you erase your last post? I swear I just gone done reading it lol. I actually agreed with you for once  ------------- Jackie Stuver "wait these aren't the happy Hawaiians oompa doompa godly heaven on your face zoas? I dont want them then. lol!" Ksmart |
Posted By: McClure
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 5:10pm
Me too!!... Well I guess not the "for once" part... just the "agreed" part. |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 5:13pm
+1 |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 5:20pm
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Yes, I deleted it because I had a bad attitude. I've tried again and again to help this hobbyist to no avail. He never sticks with it. I even went to PM's last time where I started to work with him personally, but as before he stopped communicating. It's like he spends a few minutes on it, then drops off the edge of the earth, as though he has totally forgotten that we were working on it. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 6:31pm
We've already told you that the snails will be stressed, and likely die in the high phosphates you have. Follow the advice given by everyone here and you'll be in good shape.  ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: McClure
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 6:42pm
DavidWillis's comment was in reply to a deleted post and I believe his question was in support of your stance on the phosphates killing the snails..... however, he is not the OP. |
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 02 2012 at 2:33pm
Sorry about that David, I didn't see the other post. I didn't mean it to come across rude either, so anyone who may have took it that way, I'm sorry.  I'm simply explaining that the advice given by everyone here is good advice and we're just trying to help each other out in solving a problem. ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: May 02 2012 at 3:26pm
| No worries, it is a little confusing with Marks post gone. |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 02 2012 at 5:52pm
Mark I'm quite dumbfounded by this post. First off the issue you were helping me with a few months back was a nitrate problem with my reef tank. You helped me out, and I followed all the advise you gave me. I'm sorry if you felt like "I fell of the earth" maybe i should of followed up with you and let you know how it was going. I appreciate your help, but we're obviously not on the same page, and i don't think it's fair for you to say that "I never stick with it"?? not sure what made you feel that way. Anyway, back to the problem i have set up a light over my overflow with some chaeto in it. I also do have a reactor i could use for GFO if that would help.
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 10:24am
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A reactor is not the best way to deal with this. This is a sumpless tank. In the pic I can see what looks like the intake tube for an Aquaclear HOB filter. That would be the perfect place for a media bag full of Phosphate Remover. Unless you have already purchased some GFO, I'd suggest the less expensive but equally effective Activated Alumina. Regarding what you consider to be unfair... This is not the first tank that you have had problems with that you have come here about.
You came here last time saying that Nitrates were too high. I asked for information and instead of doing it publicly, thought maybe it would be better to do it via PM. I told you then that the biopellets were not the reason for the problem. I asked you to remove the biopellets because I could see that there was a fair amount that needed to be changed in the way you were keeping your reef aquarium. You removed the biopellets as I instructed. That was good. "I took Bio pellets out. and it never got any better, so after a few weeks i gave in and used Chemiclean." This is exactly what I am talking about. Removing the biopellets was just the first step. But you never came back to receive the next instructions. You didn't follow up. You didn't come back and say, "Okay, what's next. I'm starting to have Cyano growth." Instead you walked away before we had hardly started. Herrera, I'm not the nicest person to work with, but I do have a lot of expertise in this field. If you are not able or willing to follow through with the advice from this forum, maybe this hobby is not for you.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 12:04pm
I'm sure you are full of great information. I hate to wreck your ego, but you're not the only one educated in the hobby. With the help of other forums along with Employee's from local stores like Aquatic dreams, and Reef On. They steered me in the direction to use chemiclean for the Cyano.So I'm sure you could hep me with my current, and future tank problems but you're coming off as an ass. So I will be more than happy to get my information from OTHER educated hobbyist. FEEL FREE TO STAY OUT OF MY POSTS. THANKS ------------- 125g Aggressive tank SWC-Xtreme cone prtein skimmer 40g Sump ------------------------------ 16g Innovative Marine Reef AI led 75W |
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 12:05pm
Mark, as much as I agree with that statement, and that you are very experienced, I think we all need to be a little more accepting to others and their mistakes (myself definitely included!). Many people have other things going on in their lives and can become distracted or confused a bit easier than others. Please don't feel that I'm reprimanding anyone, or trying to be rude. That is not at all my intention. I only want to help more people feel welcome here and perhaps try to diffuse the tension between people. True, people who are really in need of help and want to learn, do need to learn some humility and follow others rather than think they know it all, but the teachers also need to be a little considerate of others, and accept that unexperienced hobbyists may find themselves under stress from their tanks and try to do the best they can with their experience, even if it may not be the best way to handle things. Again, I do not at all intend to offend or target anyone! If anyone is offended, I'm sorry, and I really don't want to make anyone feel unwelcome or targeted in any way. ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 12:20pm
Wow it is so impressive to see a 16 year old with the level of maturity the you displayed in this post. I have enough experience and great tanks under my belt to know there is no right and wrong way of doing things in this hobby. Every tank is different and will have different outcomes when things are tried. I for one have used chemiclean with outstanding success. Is it a cure all? Def not but sometimes cyano will creep up even under perfect tank situations. I think as long as you have the passion and the drive to have a healty tank then you shouldn't be treated with such disrespect and made to feel a fool for different approaches to solve problems. Mark may think his previous 100 tanks were successful. However I for one would feel like a failure if my tank was covered in cheap cinder block looking rock and crappy macro algae. This is just my opinion though take it or leave it. LOL |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 12:28pm
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Oh BTW did I mention it is great to see a teenager display more maturity and respect than a full grown man. Oh yeah thats right I did.
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Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 12:51pm
Thank you so much, but really I just think that every needs a fair chance at life and everything in it. Everyone is doing their best with what they have, and even if it isn't the best thing that could be done, most people are doing their personal best. Oh and I'm actually 15 
Thank you, but seriously lets not make a big deal out of this. Mark is trying to be helpful and perhaps he is not doing the best job, he is trying. ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 1:34pm
| While I completly agree Mark's intentions are good. When u come across like a ass intentions fly out the window. You and the OP are not the first people he has tried to belittle on this forum nor the last. Ask Mark how many utahreef breaks he has taken because he was pissing people off. It is to bad hawaii doesn.t have a forum he can troll. |
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 2:10pm
Ok, I will definitely agree that he may not do too well at being kind, I also think that people do need to be a little less bothered. Mark, it is clear that some people here don't necessarily find you to be a very kind person, but you really do have good advice. Perhaps you just need to work on humility a little and try to be a little more considerate of others' circumstances. Everyone else, if someone offends you, ignore them! I understand it is much easier said than done, but everyone just needs to calm down and try to look beyond the negative. No one knows a person all that well when you think about it. Everyone's life experiences are different, and their feelings and responses are all different. If only people could truly understand that, I think there would be much less fighting and unhappiness throughout these forums. Otherwise, it is not my responsibility to defend people, nor to help prevent further fighting. I only wish that more people in the world could understand some small part of the experience that I have gained in my life (NO!...I don't have all the answers!), and be more considerate of others and care more about the person than their actions. Again, please nobody take offense from any of this! If it offends you, then great...I'm just a blabbing idiot, and you can ignore me. If this post actually seems to make some sense to you and you're not offended, maybe just try to learn a little and help spread the knowledge. ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 2:12pm
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Now, to get back on topic... Herrara how is the algae? ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 3:07pm
 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: bstuver
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 3:14pm
------------- Jackie Stuver "wait these aren't the happy Hawaiians oompa doompa godly heaven on your face zoas? I dont want them then. lol!" Ksmart |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 4:12pm
As stated by someone earlier. You may not know you are doing it, but some of your choice of words come off as belittling, and offensive. I'm sorry you have the impression that I don't believe you that much about tank maintenance. That is not the case, I'm sure you are the only one i would ever need to talk to again. But if you're gonna come off offensive in anyway I won't except your help, and i would much rather take the harder route by piecing my information together from numerous sources. If you wish to continue to help it will be greatly appreciated don't get me wrong. but if i ask a dumb question, or you question if this hobby is right for me, just clear your throat, take a deep breath, and write back with some positive feedback. otherwise please do not respond. Like Ann says we are all busy in life with different things. This hobby is 3rd or 4th on my list. So i don't get to devote maybe as much time to learning as i would like. But i have good intentions, and ultimately the health of my fish come first. I'm not the type of person to get a cute puppy, and chain him to the tree in the back yard for the rest of his life if you know what i mean.
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Posted By: Tresa
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 4:34pm
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Here is my two cents...With the type of fish you have... I think you could also put the the macro (chaeto) in the tank itself... I am not sure how much room you have in the filter but another option would be to put phosphate remover in a filter bag and place it in the filter.... Once you get the phosphates under control - turbo snails are great with hair algae! I should know, I just got over a nasty outbreak  !!!!!We all have issues with our tanks and some point in time so don't get discouraged. Sometimes this hobby is a little more confusing because there is more than one way to do things. The trick is to figure out what works for your tank and run with it
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Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 4:53pm
I think what Mark is trying to say here is that chemiclear doesn't really solve the problem. It only kills the algae/cyano, but doesn't eliminate the root cause of it, which means that is can definitely (and will) come back. By removing the cause for the cyano, you can avoid the resulting hair algae because they generally result from similar causes. Either way, it's just a lesson learned. Mark, I'm sorry if this sounds offensive, and I really don't intend it that way...you really do need to be careful how you say things. You're coming off rather arrogant and sort of stepping on everyone else's toes if you know what I mean. Here's just a little hint as what types of things are giving people these impressions:
These phrases that I've pointed out may seem perfectly fine to you, and maybe you don't realize they're offensive. I don't know. Either way, I think people are generally just finding it to be rather "self-promoting" and insulting others' experience and advice.
This is not the case! We know that you do have plenty of wonderful advice, and I myself have followed lots of it and found it to be very helpful! At the same time, with all that I've said, people are a little too hurt to accept it. I'm not saying they're totally guilt free, because I think people are being hurt a little too easily. However, it's like having someone who just punched you in the face give you advice about something...are you going to like taking their advice, even if it is good? No, because they just hurt you and you're (just people in general...not specifically you) going to be too prideful to listen to someone who has just hurt you. I personally am often guilty of this, and I must admit I do owe you a little apology because I was a bit harsh to you after you had offended me because of the way I was dealing with ich. What matters is that we try to be positive and make the best of what things have been done. Instead of criticizing people for the mistakes that they have made, which may have seemed their best option in their mind at the time, let's just try to give constructive criticism. Once again, I seriously do not intend to target you Mark, nor anyone else. I don't want to, nor do I mean to, offend anyone! I'm just trying to give some advice that I think we can all benefit from. So, without further argument, can we get back to helping Herrara deal with the algae issue? ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 4:56pm
Good advice!
Very well said! ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: builderofdreams
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 9:27pm
I think we all need to take a break and have a group HUG. ------------- It's Not a Hobby It's an Obsession 150&210 Gallons of Madness and. Sanity! 801-850-4915 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65135&title=builderofdreams-feedback-post |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 10:44pm
| Today i read up on GFO, and decided not to use it sense it lowers oxygen in the water, and i do not have a skimmer. LFS suggested Chemi-Pure. So i added that to my HOB filter. Also had water tested. He said perfect RO water reads "0" And tap water is in between "400-600". Mine was "87" which he suggest was not to bad but should replace at least the RO membrane for a reef tank. the RO membrane is $70, filter is $12 and Carbon filters are $15ea. so i would be into replacing filters $112. I'm just going to buy a new RO unit off eBay for $120. |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 10:49pm
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Was the water sample you had tested out of your RO unit or straight out of the faucet? ------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 11:13pm
| Sample was from the RO unit |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: May 03 2012 at 11:36pm
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An RO unit by itself will not take your TDS from 400-600 to 0. You are lucky to get an RO unit that will reduce TDS by a factor of 10 under normal conditions. So if your tap water is 600 you should feel good about getting it down to 60. You need a DI unit to get to 0. I have spent a lot of effort (including a pressure boosting pump, and electronic controls) on my RO unit, and it will take my tap water (700 TDS) down to 5-10. So I am not convinced your RO unit is bad. Also, you can get a membrane and pre filters on ebay for under $50 last I checked. |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 12:46am
| good info thanks! |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 10:21am
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I agree pretty much with Davidwillis (although I would expect a good RO unit to reduce your TDS by at least 95 - 97% (David thinks 90% is an acceptable result).
With your post - RO TDS reading of 87, now you need to find out your starting (tap water) TDS in order to figure out the % of solids that your RO unit is removing, and therefore whether or not your RO unit is having problems.
IMO the combination of a tap water TDS reading of anything less than 900 ppm with a resulting post - RO reading of 87 would mean your RO unit is not functioning properly.
So before you spend money and effort on replacing any filters, I would recommend you have a sample of your tap water tested for TDS.
900 ppm is a rather high TDS reading. However, I do know of several communties in Utah (Magna, for example) where the tap water TDS is really that high.
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 2:04pm
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90% is not what I feel is acceptable, just what I generally see from the average RO (my RO is much better). There are a lot of variables that effect this. My 90% is based off someone using the RO to fill a pressurized tank, that is used in small amounts at a time (you get TDS creep from this), and also a water pressure of around 40psi. This can be increased greatly by running directly from the RO, and filling a large container (not just topping off a little at a time), and increasing the pressure. I think me and Bob are both saying the same thing though. We can't tell if your RO unit is working correctly without more data. Then once we have the data we can help you fix it (it may be something other than the filters). We need your tap water TDS, water pressure, and if you have a storage tank, and how you use your unit (do you use a lot all at once, or little amounts throughout the day). |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 2:38pm
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The TDS of almost 100 is only a small part of the reason the Cyano and Hair Algae bloomed. Actually a tank which uses tap water can be kept clear of nuisance algae. The lack of snails was 90% of the problem. High PO4 was what killed the snails, so PO4 remover in the HOB filter is the very first thing that must be done here. 97 ppm is a TDS reading that can be lived with for now, but I agree that it should be reduced as time permits.
I agree with Tresa that Phosphate remover (either kind is fine, but I prefer Activated Alumina) can be placed in a media bag in the HOB filter. Because of the immediate need to kill all that Hair Algae. When we eliminate or reduce the 3 things that grow algae (light, Phosphorus and Nitrogen), it dies. I definitely do not agree with the LFS about using Chemipure. Honestly, it never ceases to amaze me how uninformed the LFS employees can be. What this tank need most is Activated Alumina to reduce PO4. Activated alumina is white and turns tan/brown when used up. That's how we know when to change it I would hold off on the Chaeto for now. The tank darkening procedure below would not allow the Chaeto to do anything but die and that would just add to the problem. Definitely later some Cheato, even better some Caulerpa could go right in the tank. Caulerpa growing in the tank is not only beautiful, it absorbs nutrients which could otherwise feed Hair Algae. It also provides great food for fish. Macroalgae growth is a great way to prepare a tank to make newly added fish, especially Tangs, very happy and healthy. There are hobbyists here that will give you free Chaeto and Caulerpa just by asking in a separate topic. The pics of your tank look just like the ones I have worked on and other hobbyists have had that were cleaned up using the method described here: http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3033" rel="nofollow - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3033 The discussion in that link basically outlines these steps to making the tank sparkle:  1. A generous amount of Activated Alumina to absorb PO4, replaced when exhuasted (bi-weekly at first, less frequently as the problem subsides) 2. Darken the tank for 2 days to begin killing the algae, Actinic/blue light (only) for a day to keep coral alive, dark again to continue killing algae, repeated 2-4 times. A dark sheet or blanket or even black garbage bags does the job here. 3. Add 50-75 Astrea and related small herbivorous snails or 10-20 large pacific Turbo Snails. (Snails are nocturnal so they really go to town on the algae when the tank is dark and some snails, Nerites and Margaritas, like eating dieing algae. Nasarrius snails are useless.) 4. Add 10-20 Hermit Crabs 5. Change/clean a floss filter daily or as often as needed, before it clogs with dieing hair algae. 6. ASAP, remove dead snails or anything else which could pollute the tank, causing nuisance algae to bloom. 7. In the interest of limited time to perform maintenance, I wouldn't do water changes unless I found large clumps of dieing algae that are easily removed with a siphon. New salt water only feeds algae. Next month after the algae problem is controlled/eliminated, 10% monthly water changes are more than sufficient. Many more experienced hobbyists change it less often than that. 8. Ongoing care can be as simple as ensuring the snail population remains sufficient to eat new algae growth. This usually equates to keeping about 1 snail/gallon tank capacity and replenishing lost snails every 4-6 months if needed to keep algae in check. Hope this helps. Please keep in touch if anything goes awry or if the procedure seems too slow or ineffective. Sorry it can't be easier. Unfortunately once the problem is this large it does take some extra effort to get it back under control. I advise against the recommendation you may hear to use a Sea Hare. They too often die early, causing further algae growth. Snails are really the best algae control. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 4:19pm
Jiminy friggin Crickets, Mark!  you're making my head spin!
1) 'Herrera' may (or may not, but I am thinking he does) have a problem with his RO unit. He is getting that (almost) 100 ppm reading after RO - not from his tap.
Unless his tap water TDS is, like, 1000 ppm then his RO unit is messed up. Maybe even needs a new membrane, not sure yet. That's why he needs to get a tap water TDS reading first thing.
(And if his tap TDS really is 1000 ppm, then you telling him he is OK to use tap water is "crazy talk")
2) If he has a pO4 reading of close to 2 ppm he needs to do a water change first to get it down to a more reasonable amount; otherwise he is gonna burn through GFO / Alumina Resin like crazy!
You tell him to use Alumina Resin and "change it bi-weekly at first"..? WHAT???!!!
With that much phosphate, that resin will be totally exhausted within 48 hours; he would need to change it every 2 or 3 days for probably 2 - 3 weeks straight to remove that much phosphate. Far smarter to do a 50% water change first, to cut his pO4 level in half. Provided, of course, that his new water is not coming in saturated with phosphates - which it may be, if his RO unit is not functioning properly...
3) If he gets to the point that he has verified good RO water coming in, and does a WC to get the pO4 to a more manageble level, THEN he should start with (IMO) GFO... Herrera, I would not worry about the GFO lowering your oxygen too much, even if you do not have a skimmer going. I have run GFO on skimmerless tanks without issues. I like GFO over the Alumina stuff because GFO lasts longer and removes more pO4 per gram than the Alumina Resin does... but GFO is a little more expensive.
4) Whichever you choose, run it in your reactor (that you posted you have) - not in a media bag. Reactor is ten times more efficient. You will need to change it out often in the beginning because you have alot of phosphate in your water. Once you get it down to under 0.1 ppm then you can relax your change schedule to that bi-weekly, or even once a month.
5) Don't bother with darkening the tank. If you darken it it will eventually kill off alot of the algae, but, unless you pull alot of it out first, now you have a bunch of dead stuff rotting in the tank, releasing back all those nitrates and phosphates. Plus you will need to keep it dark longer than 2 days to see any real results, who wants to black out their tank for a week plus?
6) Forget about those snails and crabs for now. Sorry Mark, but snails are not the 'cure all' that you want them to be. Pull out most of the algae by hand and get yourself a nice Foxface instead of those 100+ snails / crabs. The Foxface will eat 10X the algae of all those snails / crabs combined, and you won't have to worry about 3/4 of them dropping dead in a week from the residual phosphate and then being pissed off you wasted your money.
7) Chaeto use now is fine as long as you don't black out the tank. And chaeto is a great tool to help with managing nitrate / phosphate, it's just not the 'magic' solution to everything.
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 4:41pm
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Well I don't think the RO unit is causing that high of phosphates, but it is easy to check the phosphate level of your RO water. If it reads 0 then you would know right away that is not the cause of phosphates reading 2ppm. However I still think having your RO water at 85 is higher than I would like it to be, I just don't think it is the root of the problem (but in my opinion it is still too early to tell). |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 4:49pm
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I wonder if these two threads are related?
http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53208&title=high-phosphates-other-tank-problems" rel="nofollow - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53208&title=high-phosphates-other-tank-problems ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 5:13pm
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You know reading this thread is very interesting. Everyone has their way of doing things, and it doesn't mean one is right or one is wrong. But what your algae problem tells us is that what you have been doing is not working well. Any way of running your tank will work if it keeps the nutrients low, has good gas exchange, and circulation, and keeps the water parameters in check (ph, alk, calc, temp, salinity) will work fine. For some reason your tank has not keep the phosphates in check (and possibly other things). This could be over feeding, die-off, buildup in the sand bed....etc.. This is really the key, nothing will provide a long term fix if we don't know what is causing the problem. You can do 50% water changes, Run GFO, add anti-biotics, etc. And it may get things under control for now, but unless you want to keep doing that forever the problem needs to be found, and fixed. So I would say for now don't worry about the algae, but instead figure out what caused the high phosphates. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 5:55pm
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I don't disagree with you Bob, nor you David, though it's kinda fun to see Bob's head spin. If a hobbyist were to ignore everybody else and take the info from just this last page, #3 of this thread, and use it as best fits for their tank, they should be able to conquer any algae problem and keep their reef looking nice ever after. I also was thinking the same as Shayne. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 8:03pm
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I just want to say something. Mark has really been criticized on this thread. Some he may deserve, but a some not. I just want to say it takes a very good man to be able to take that and still want to help without any arguing or trying to prove himself right. My hat is off to you Mark... Now I have one other question. You said earlier
How can lack of snails be 90% of the problem? It seems high phosphate is the problem to me (after all, it killed the snails). What caused this in the first place? Lack of snails does not increase P04. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 08 2012 at 1:31pm
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Yes, I see what you mean. You said it better than I did. What I should have said back there is that snails would have kept the algae from becoming a problem, but that if all the added snails died, then the cause must be discovered. I believe that lots of snails may have been added, which subsequently died, adding pollution, including PO4 to the tank. Unfortunately, we don't know whether my hunch is true. This detail has not been revealed. Full disclosure is invaluable to resolving problems. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: rufessor
Date Posted: May 09 2012 at 10:15am
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Don't really want to jump into a long thread with more advice so I wont add but a single thing. If it was me, and I was worried that I was adding PO4 or other things with the water I was making... Just go buy enough to do a couple large water changes from the LFS and continue using LFS water for a month or two. Its really cheap. Then take your time and figure out your TDS readings and get your home water to where you want it then stop buying water if you think it makes sense. ------------- Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler -A.E. 57 Gallon RImless build in progress check the thread before if becomes boring and just full of nice pictures of colorful coral! |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 09 2012 at 7:27pm
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Sorry for the late reply! Just got back from 5days in Vegas. okay so my to do list will be to: 1. test tap water tpm 2. test RO water P04 3. 50% water change 4. get some GFO or activated alumina (which can't find at LFS is this what i need? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kaiser-Activated-alumina-dessicant-1-8-2-mm-grade-A-/220748476724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3365a27134" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kaiser-Activated-alumina-dessicant-1-8-2-mm-grade-A-/220748476724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3365a27134 5.add fox face 6. keep lights on for 4 hours a day for a 2 weeks I'll wait to invest in snails after issue is solved. Is the Cyano also caused by high PO4?
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Posted By: jaschall
Date Posted: May 09 2012 at 7:49pm
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Ive had better luck with the yellow tang eating hair algea in my tank. Right now there is a few on the board, also Bill in ogden might have a one. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 09 2012 at 9:40pm
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Most algae that we deal with needs 3 things to grow: White Light (as opposed to Actinic light) Nitrogen Phosphorus A 50% water change will reduce PO4 to .9 which is still not low enough. Instead of messing with large water changes, I'd turn off all white lights now and leave them off while the algae problem is addressed. It's really hit or miss with fish that will eat Hair Algae. Tangs, Rabbitfish, Blennies, all the same. It's a crap shoot. That's why snails are best. They always eat algae. But the PO4 must first be reduced, not only to make it possible to keep snails, but to keep algae from growing. I suspect some of the Marco Rock is full of PO4. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 7:49am
Have people had problems with Marco Rock in the past? I have not heard of it before (but I have never looked into Marco Rock). I would think they would be really careful about something like that, because if they made rock full of PO4 they would be out of business in no time. |
Posted By: willrileyiv
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 12:41pm
| turbo snails!!!!!! i had a few rocks starting to get covered in hair algea and i picked up 4 turbo snails from fish 4 you for my 46 gallon and the next morning i wake up to over half the algea gone. they are almost finished cleaning the rocks and i even have a few new coral starting on the rock out of no where. |
Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 12:55pm
Turbo snails are like saltwater lawnmowers. I don't like that much because once the algae is gone they will go all over the place looking for algae and in the process they often topple corals and small rocks that aren't very well secured. Also, you really should hold off on snails until you get the phosphates down. I would use LFS water until you know what is causing the phosphates, and do a good size water change. Plus, run activated alumina. All of this should help eliminate the algae. Phosphates can certainly cause cyanobacteria, because it will feed on them. ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 2:34pm
Shoot, definitely should have mentioned that when I started the tank 60-70% of rock was dead Pukani, and reef saver from BRS. seeded with live Fiji, and live sand, and 30% live water. but if that is what caused high p04 why take over 7 months for algae outbreak?
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 6:38pm
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Old dead LR is full of stuff that effects a reef tank in many ways for a long time. I put together a special cautionary Tip about this in the WMAS Reefkeeping Tips linked below. The old coral and/or Calcium Carbonate Rocks being mined from the ground in Florida have tended to be high in PO4. By comparison, Utah Rock/LBTR has hardly any PO4. The recommendation is to place Florida rock in RO water for a week or two, changed every few days to leach out and discard the PO4. It's hard to say without knowing more of the history of this tank, the specifics of why the two algae grew like this, but this much I can say. It's a delicate balance of growth and predation. To the newer hobbyist, algae problems lurk unnoticed as a fuzz on the rocks. All of a sudden one day, 3-12 months later the hobbyist comes here in a rush saying that algae has bloomed out of control. We have all experienced it. http://garf.org/ugly.html" rel="nofollow - Ugly Green Haired Mermaid It happens to even the best hobbyists from time to time, if they aren't watching. Sometimes we discover that the newer hobbyist did not understand the extreme importance of having a good population of snails each night scouring the rocks and glass, beginning from the first month. Sometimes it's a lack of understanding the importance of balancing herbivores and carnivores. The presence of algae eating bugs is an almost invisible nighttime algae eating army, but when bug eating fish like Wrasse, Pseudochromis, Royal Gramma, Damsels or Mandarin are added to the tank, the bug population becomes early morning breakfast and late evening dinner. As these fish consume the bugs, little by little the algae eating army declines and the algae bursts out unchecked. Without adding more snails or an algae eating fish to compensate early on, the algae has a heyday. There is an article about this here. http://utahreefs.com/SeaStar/SeaStarJunePrint.pdf" rel="nofollow - June 2001 Sea Star Newsletter - "Herbivores versus Carnivores" Hope this helps ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 6:47pm
That was me when I first started in this hobby. I ended up with enough algae that anyone who had grass would be jealous of the green in my tank! LOL I went in there everyday with a pair of scissors and trimmed it as short as I could and then pulled as much of the remaining stuff off the rocks. After figuring out that I needed a ton more snails, I finally got the algae at least somewhat controlled. I also learned that I had crap rock and it was leaching phosphates and nitrates into the water, which is almost certainly happening with your tank. Best thing to do here is cut the lights for about 3 days, or at least everything but the actinics. Do water changes with clean water (no phosphates), and once the phosphates are low enough, ADD SNAILS! ------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 6:49pm
 Most people leave the hobby before two years are up, so they may not have time to learn that their problems were associated with the cool looking rock they bought in their valiant effort to save the world's reefs.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 10:36pm
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My 40lbs of dead rock was soaked in vinegar for 3 days. then added to salt water tub with 20lbs live rock with circulation, and frequent water changes for 3 weeks until, ammonia, and nitrites read 0 Today I had my water tested This was really strange but my RO TDS read 37 instead of 87 which it read last week. Tap water read 340 TDS RO PO4 read .02 i purchased Phosguard, and placed it in a media bag in HOB filter. cutting lights to 6 hours a day with only actinic. How can i be sure it's the rock that is the source of high PO4? should i place a piece in a bucket with fresh salt water, and check PO4 in a week or so? ------------- 125g Aggressive tank SWC-Xtreme cone prtein skimmer 40g Sump ------------------------------ 16g Innovative Marine Reef AI led 75W |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: May 11 2012 at 8:47am
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I would say the eliminates your RO water as the problem (if the test is accurate). Mark can probably give better advice on how to test your rock, but your idea sounds good to me. However you will have to keep the temperature up in your bucket, and I would add a power head for circulation. If you have any die off on the rock, then it will give you a false reading. I forget, do you have a pressure tank connected to your RO unit? If so, that would be the reason why your TDS readings are up and down. |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 11 2012 at 3:12pm
| yes i have a pressure tank |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 11 2012 at 3:59pm
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"My 40lbs of dead rock was soaked in vinegar for 3 days. then added to salt water tub with 20lbs live rock with circulation, and frequent water changes for 3 weeks until, ammonia, and nitrites read 0" Please read the Tip about using old dry dead LR. This is serious business and the effects of using it cannot be accurately predicted. Nitrogen pollution is just one of many consequences of re-introducing old dry dead LR to a reef aquarium. The vinegar may have slightly altered the effects but did not avoid the the consequences. I've seen this many times. That's why I wrote the Tip. "Today I had my water tested This was really strange but my RO TDS read 37 instead of 87 which it read last week. Tap water read 340 TDS" Sorry, but to me that's not strange at all. I've been working in the hobby for a long time. Dave gave one reason and there are several more I could describe if you are interested. "RO PO4 read .02 i purchased Phosguard, and placed it in a media bag in HOB filter. cutting lights to 6 hours a day with only actinic."
Very Good. 0.02 is the top of the acceptable range for PO4. It is easily dealt with at that level using AA/Phosguard. I'll bet that PO4 is leaching from both types of rock and maybe the sand, though I can't remember if you told us where the sand came from. It wasn't old dry dead LS was it?"How can i be sure it's the rock that is the source of high PO4?" At this point it's not really that important to know whether its the rock or the sand because we can resolve it as outlined further below. I can pretty confidently say it's the rock and/or sand for several reasons: 1) water with a TDS reading like that would not supply enough PO4 to give a reading of .02 PO4 during an algae bloom. 2) No other source could provide that much PO4 during an algae bloom. Normally during an algae bloom PO4 is only slightly detectable, as are the N levels, because the algae is eating it up. Instead of changing out some nice rock and/or sand which would be a shame to lose, I would just clear up the problem. This will also allow the tank to continue to mature in all other ways. To fix the problem the weird substances coming out of the LR/LS need to be absorbed. I'd buy either some Polyfilter or Chemipure. Polyfilter is better, but the only LFS that I ever saw carry it was Fish-4-U. I buy it online (google search "polyfilter") for around $7 per pad. It's all made by the same manufacturer so just buy it at the best price. I'd get a 3-pac because this will probably require all three pads one after the other. Chemipure is more available locally but 3 lots of it is more expensive. Polyfilter and Chemipure say they are rechargable, but it's not worth it because they are nowhere near as good after the first use. After the Polyfilter or Chemmipure has been running for a few days, I'd add one or two snails and watch carefully to see if they survive and pull them out immediately when dead, so they don't add to the pollution problem. Might as well try some large Pacific Turbo Snails, since there aren't any delicate coral to worry about falling to the sand. If these snails survive a week, that says it's safe to add more. Be sure to acclimate the snails just as you would a fish. Large snails are not as forgiving as small snails. Acclimation procedure is discussed in the Reefkeeping Tip "Secrets of Adding New Fish....". That's about it for now. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 11 2012 at 8:00pm
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Great info thanks Mark! 100% of sand was Natures Ocean Bio-Activ live sand. I actually added Chemipure last week the first time i had RO TDS checked. So i will order some Polyfilter in the mean time. When should i pull out the chemipure? Also My 125g is starting to have a light Algae. the tank read .08 PO4. I added Phosguard yesterday in my reactor. I underdosed as if i were treating 100g instead of 125. And today the Some of my Zoas look sick. But other types were not effected at all. here is a before and after.   . . . .   |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 11 2012 at 8:51pm
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so is this stuff a no no, and if so why? obviously it would only get rid of the PO4 in the water, not what cause it. But wouldn't it help control the outbreak while i cure the route of the problem? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+8057+23495&pcatid=23495" rel="nofollow - http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+8057+23495&pcatid=23495 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3989+4098&pcatid=4098" rel="nofollow - http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3989+4098&pcatid=4098
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 12 2012 at 12:00pm
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I'm passionate about adding chemicals to maintain water parameters like Alk and Ca, but I hate using chemical additives to control things that can be controlled naturally. The algae fix looks like a bad product. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 12 2012 at 3:01pm
| Bump on some more info on my poor Zoas. This started when i added Phosban, but could just be a coincidence, and possibly those bugs that kill zoas? if so, what should i do to make sure there are no Zoa killer bugs? |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 13 2012 at 10:45am
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As you probably know, Coral will go through times of retraction and re-hydration. This is normal and sometimes happens when any aspect of water quality changes due to some kind of change in maintenance, in this case the use of AA/Phosguard. Just for your information, I doubt it's a Zoanthid eating bug or slug. Pests can be removed before adding coral by dipping the coral in products designed for that purpose. From the look of those few shrunken coral in the pics, I wouldn't worry just yet. Wait for a week, watch to see if polyps start to slime or to disappear before worrying that it could be a pest. Regarding the light algae in the 125, the best solution is not chemical media but rather the number of snails. Snails are a long term solution to keeping algae under control. Add more snails so the total comes closer to one snail for every 1-2 gallons. From the pics the rock is actually fairly clean so my opinion is that it won't take many more snails to do the job. How many snails are there and how long has it been since adding snails? Regarding the other tank, the Chemi-pure will be exhausted within 1-4 weeks. I state that variance because we don't know how much pollution/toxins the old dry dead LR is leaching into the water and because it will continue to leach as the water gets cleaned of the toxins. The GFO is also pulling out the extra PO4, so these are 2 things that need to be reduced and it may not be just a one time deal. Using more of both products will depend on how the tank is doing at that time. Testable PO4 levels below 0.02 ppm will be one indicator that the tank is recovering. Untestable levels of toxins will be the other, with Snails living or dieing as the indicator. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: May 31 2012 at 11:12pm
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so since my last post i have been using Phosguard, polyfilters, and only have only been running white lights for 3 hours a day. I believe the algae growth has slowed, but still pretty bad.I also bought my own TDS meter. which I've been having a lot of fun with haha. I've tested a whole bunch of tap waters, and bottled waters for fun. My tap is 280ppm, my RO is 36ppm when the tank is full, once it is empty and starts to fill my buck slowly the TPS lowers to 22ppm. so my 5 gallon bucket averages out to 27ppm when full. These are much lower numbers than what the LFS tds meter showed. Not sure which one is accurate. but Being RO is 27ppm is this acceptable? I purchased ro filters, and membrane, but have not switched them out. should i just switch out the filters? Also I want to buy my own PO4 tester. does anyone have any experience with this digital tester? and why can it only to 25 tests? http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMBO-HANNA-HI-713-CHECKER-HC-PHOSPHATE-PHOTOMETER-HI-713-25-FOR-25-TESTS-/310373243110?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4843afd8e6" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMBO-HANNA-HI-713-CHECKER-HC-PHOSPHATE-PHOTOMETER-HI-713-25-FOR-25-TESTS-/310373243110?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4843afd8e6
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Posted By: Akira
Date Posted: June 01 2012 at 12:14am
| Ok so i just lost 30 mins of my life reading this post , here is what i learned ...... Im still a bigger ass than Mark could ever be , i have way less knowledge than most on here , Ann is wise beyond her years , everyone has a different opinion , Herrera has a bad case algae .......did i cover it all ? So my limited experience showed ... i removed a ton of cotton candy algae and my PO4 skyrocketed , reactor solved it , cotton candy was eating it before i removed it . so what caused it ? No clue but will be following this post closely till I figure it out . |
Posted By: Akira
Date Posted: June 01 2012 at 12:15am
| Hanna tester require reagents like all test so reloads are needed |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 01 2012 at 7:21pm
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Those incoming and outgoing TDS levels say to me that the RO Membrane is going bad and needs to be changed. Changing the prefilters, sediment and Activated Carbon should be done every 6-10 months. The new membrane should purify the water to 10 ppm or less. I'm assuming that the PO4 level is down. I'd add a few snails and hermits as a test. I'll bet they survive. If they are still good in a week, add more snails(less if they are Pacific Turbos) and a Tang or Rabbitfish . Within a few weeks the algae will be less and the lights can be brought back up. Keep the snail population replenished to prevent another algae outbreak. When an herbivorous fish dies, we have to account for the loss of algae eating capacity. If the dead fish is not able to be found and removed, we have to account for the sudden increase in nutrients as it decomposes or is turned into waste by the cleanup crew. (This is what sometimes feeds a sudden bloom of Cyanobacteria.) Enjoy ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: June 02 2012 at 1:49pm
ok I wil go buy that Phosphate tester,change out membrane&filters, and add snails. thanks |
Posted By: Morlaz
Date Posted: June 07 2012 at 1:30pm
| An Long Spine Urchin works well to, also cut down your lighting, feed less, and get lots of snails and crabs. |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: June 13 2012 at 1:08pm
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Update: i changed out my old filters, and RO membrane. my tds use to read 27ppm. now it reads 32ppm??  These were purchased new from BRS. I have filled up five 5gallon buckets and it still reads 32ppm not very happy about that  also it ok to add distilled water? the tds reads 3ppmI have also added a sump, and looking to add a protein skimmer. I also purchased 100snails from Reefcleaners.org when they get here how should i acclimate them?
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Posted By: reefdmd
Date Posted: June 13 2012 at 1:24pm
| I started getting hairline when there was sunlight in the room. I completely draped all windows and have not seen it ever since. O also I was trying to get my clowns to spawn so i had the light on for 10-12 hours a day and thats when i noticed a huge spike. Everyone else has great information but i just though i would share my experience with you. Hope you solve your problem soon! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 13 2012 at 2:02pm
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If after 25 gallons the RO water is at 32 ppm, it could be a defective membrane, but first remind us what the answers were to these questions: What is the TDS of your tap water? What is the water pressure at your house? Snail acclimation is also discussed in the WMAS Reefkeeping Tip "Secrets of Adding New Fish...." ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: June 13 2012 at 4:48pm
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Has any one asked about the age of your lights? Just a thought. ------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: McClure
Date Posted: June 13 2012 at 5:54pm
How would this effect hair algae? I'm not smarting off, I really am curious. It was my understanding the lights feeds growth so the natural consequence of old lights to me would seem to have the opposite effect? ------------- 180 Gallon, 75 gallon, 30 gallon, 5 gallon. On a side note: I have just now decided that "Gallon" is a funny looking word. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 13 2012 at 6:07pm
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I agree, though there may be a small effect of the change in spectrum of old lights, sometimes moving away from blue and toward a yellow spectrum that grows nuisance algae better. * Truth is, in my experience, it's mostly just a coincidence. Most hobbyists are newer hobbyists with less than 2 years experience. Newer hobbyists are not as familiar with the growth and changes of a reef aquarium. As snails die and the inexperienced hobbyist fails to replace them, the amount of visible algae increases. At about this the same time the lights are reaching the age where they need to be replaced. See the coincidence? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: jaschall
Date Posted: June 13 2012 at 7:34pm
| Have you tried a yellow tang yet. I know people say tangs are a hit and miss but I've had luck with all 3 of mine. If you would like bring some hair algae by my house and we can feed some to my fish to see. If you happen to buy one and he doesn't eat it Ill go ahead and buy it from you. Good luck with the battle I've been there my self. |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: June 15 2012 at 2:17am
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I already have a Sailfin Tang or I would be happy to buy a yellow tang. Lights are 2 months old. tap water is 270ppm. Not sure about water pressure. Really confused about my Membrane. would hate to buy another one, and have it read 30+ppm as well
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 15 2012 at 11:08am
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That ppm is either wrong or the membrane is defective. Is it a TFC membrane or a CTA membrane? What you want is a TFC membrane. 270 ppm TDS is quite low for city water. In St. George the TDS is over 500 ppm and you can taste the difference. When I lived there, the RO units purified water to less than 20 ppm. Properly functioning, yours should purify that 270 ppm water to less than 5 ppm Is this a hand held tester? If so, I'd take that TDS tester and some of that 32 ppm water to the nearest water store or LFS to compare against another TDS testing unit. Take along some tap water too, just to verify it's TDS. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: June 21 2012 at 9:06pm
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forgot to bring tds to compare to others. But a couple samples i took read 4ppm for distilled water. 10ppm RO from Reef On. and 24ppm from Another LFSI'm not sure if my RO was a TFC or CTA. here is the one I purchased.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/reverse-osmosis-filters-and-systems/replacement-filters-and-di-resin/reverse-osmosis-membranes/75-gpd-filmtec-ro-membrane.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/reverse-osmosis-filters-and-systems/replacement-filters-and-di-resin/reverse-osmosis-membranes/75-gpd-filmtec-ro-membrane.html also i bought some snails and one had a lot of these white things on them. they all came off, and stuck to the glass, and i believe they've multiplied. what are these?  |
Posted By: Akira
Date Posted: June 22 2012 at 12:04am
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Did you add nerite snails? Bet they are snail eggs not many make it to maturity but i do get a few that do .
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: June 22 2012 at 12:16pm
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yes i did add Nerite snails. sweet, hope i get a few that make it
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