Fish are dying
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Help
Forum Name: EMERGENCY FORUM
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72225
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Topic: Fish are dying
Posted By: jdinchak
Subject: Fish are dying
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 3:02pm
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I have had my tank up and running for over 2 years, some of my fish are 5 years old and rock solid. We lost a Whitecheek tang that we had a month. We had some issues with our pump and it took a few days to get fixed so I thought the changes stressed him out and he died. I am in the process of losing my Bullseye Jawfish, we saw him out of his hole this morning sucking air at the top, he is alive but barely. His eyes are huge and bugged out. They look like they would burst. I chalked it up to the stress of pump failure. Looking at my tank again today in full light I notice about 2/3rds of my fish appear almost speckled or power coated. Not sure if it's velvet or ich, doesn't quite look like either (from checking out pictures online). My sailfin tang I have had for 4.5 years and weathered all storms now looks bad, eyes are starting to bulge and his fins almost look like they are decomposing. My first fish ever my Tangerine Clown kinda has the dusted look as well and it appears that a fish or something took a huge bite out of him behind the dorsal fin (has that decomposing look). My midnight angel and even wrasses all have varying color changes. Not all fish are effected but this looks to be spreading. I am not sure what it is. I did notice for last two weeks my Cleaner Wrasse has been working overtime picking off of fish and they were letting him. I am not getting really good pictures at this time. When we first got the pump back on we noticed a lot of debris came out of the piping, we did a water change, added fresh carbon and even bought filter socks to try to help that out. I will test other levels but wanted to see if any one had any insights. I am completely freaked out at losing my tank and these fish that have meant so much. Sorry this is so wordy, I wanted to get as much detail in as I could. Any help is appreciated. Thanks Jon 602.770.0618 ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Replies:
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 4:25pm
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It sounds like either Brooklynella or Uronema based on the symptoms. I'm almost leaning towards Uronema based on the "something took a huge bite out of him" comment. I don't have time to post more right now, but I hope that gets you on the right track. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 4:55pm
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Looking up uronema seems that may be what it is. Two fish look almost like they are decomposing. One the clown is still ok but the sailfin isn't long for this world. Thx. Will see what I can find online. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 4:57pm
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Geez that sucks. -------------  |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 5:06pm
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My thoughts... unfortunately many of the fish are toast. I think you can do the massive catch and QT, but I think the vast majority of people would try to wait it out. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 5:10pm
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Yeah I can tell a few are gone in the next two days. My midnight and two trigger appear healthy but have the dusting on them. The triggers tail looks a bit beat up but not bad. My other angel and wrasses and hawk and bar gobies look ok. Working to get some meds in case and get a qt tank going. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 5:15pm
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Sorry...only have a second again... Uronema is in probably every tank. It can live on anything and everything. I think a series of freshwater dips usually will knock it out, but uronema doesn't require a fish. So, you'll always be susceptible. Fish just succumb when they are stressed. If you can easily catch them, pull them out and get them into a freshwater dip then QT until your tank is steady again. Double check everything I just said online...I'm on my phone and am going off my best memory..... ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 6:00pm
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Thx. I got a 30 g tank I picked up. Will try pulling out the sicker looking fish. Run hypo salinity and see how they do. Will just have to keep an eye out. Hoping I am able to resolve. Thanks for everyone's help. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 8:37pm
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I'm curious...why hyposalinity? ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 9:05pm
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That was a recommendation given. Never had to do this level of care so don't have too much experience. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 9:08pm
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Nikki if it is uronema will I ever be able to solve? Will I have to bleach tank and start over? If it's in there with coral and everything else not sure if I can even use the coral again. Hoping for a resolution but seeing other people who have had to start over. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 9:28pm
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If I recall, there aren't any studies backing hypo for uronema. I think formalin and freshwater baths are the main techniques. Hypo can be useful to lessen the stress level and help them fight the infection, but it is no cure. A single freshwater dip should take care of most of the infection...then just follow up with a couple more dips to be sure. Uronema can feed on just about anything, so I bet all of us have it in our tanks. It rarely goes after fish...only in severe cases of stress, which you mentioned you had. If you treat your fish, I'd leave them in QT for 6-8 weeks and let your display run fallow. That will allow your main tank time to recover (keep feeding the empty tank the same amount to maintain your biological system.) It'll also kill off any ich, velvet, and other nasties. Then just reintroduce your fish one at a time. Sorry I haven't been more help today. I've been crazy busy. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 9:35pm
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You have been great help. What is your thoughts on freshwater dips? How long? I called a few LFS today and the fact the person answer phone had to ask me what it was not sure my luck in finding it. I may try online if I can't find local. Thanks again! ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 9:40pm
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I forget how long to dip for uronema, but I'd go 15 minutes then get them into a bath with Furan2 and Kanaplex if you can find it )which I'm betting I'm probably the only one who has it...although try Fish4U.) Then go into hyposalinity with the antibiotics. If I remember correctly, dip every 3 days 4 times. What were you trying to find that no one knew what it was? ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 9:57pm
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Formulin. Forgot to type it. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 11:54pm
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Formalin works, but you stand to kill your fish with it instead of curing them. I rarely use it due to the risks. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 12:51am
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5 hours later we got half the fish out. Pretty much destroyed any aquascaping. We left in the fish that looked the best. Sure we stressed everyone out. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 1:00am
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Ugh, sorry to hear that. That's no way to spend a Saturday night. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Dan9554880
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 10:46am
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Fish4U doesn't carry formalin. The only thing they had was rid ich plus ------------- 210 Mixed Reef 20 Nuvo nano reef Learn your tank, not the hobby |
Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 11:50am
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Been there done that. Sucks bad. Sorry you have to go through this. ------------- 150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues. |
Posted By: tileman
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 12:09pm
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Hang in there. Better days are ahead. ------------- 335G Reef TOTM. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/2/aquarium ReefKeepers TOTM Feb. 2012 http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....k-of-the-month & |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 12:23pm
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Lost the healthier looking fat flame angel but the almost zombie like sailfin and clown are still strong. Wrasses and gobies look great. Thx for support. I guess a horrible rite of passage. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: July 21 2014 at 3:30pm
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Dude this sucks. Just read through it :( ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 21 2014 at 6:36pm
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Good news is no more deaths. Been doing freshwater dips everyday. The two sickest are are still alive. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 21 2014 at 9:18pm
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Yaaaaay! Did you end up running an antibiotic as well? ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 21 2014 at 9:21pm
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I don't have one. Didn't have a chance to look. Bacot just said sailfin ate frozen today with garlic (he was worst) so that is a good sign. Do the LFS have the antibiotics? ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 21 2014 at 9:23pm
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Most should have Furan2...which is what I'd recommend. If they are healing up ok, then you might be in the clear. Uronema can leave some nasty wounds that get infected, so I try to err on the side of caution. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Carlsson
Date Posted: July 22 2014 at 7:26am
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I have Furan-2 at home (Murray) if you still need some. I also have Prazipro and Cupramine as well. Patrik 901-485-5782 |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 6:21pm
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Thanks Carlsson, I was on biz travel last week and not able to pick up. We lost two more for a total of 7. The rest seem better. I got some furan 2 but not sure if I should add to QT tank or just dip them with it? Thanks. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 6:23pm
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Furan two needs longer than a dip to be effective. Must qt ------------- 150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues. |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 8:01pm
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Furan 2 takes nearly a week. It is only used as a dip for zoa-pox. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 9:36pm
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Well after adding the Furan 2 following the instructions all remaining fish in qt are dead. They looked pretty bad. I had extra aeration in there and fed as much as I could be they weren't eating. The funny thing is before the furan2 they were all swimming and active. My wife believes it killed the fish. Hoping for some more background. Did it speed it up? Did it actually kill them? Was it always inevitable and they couldn't handle the treatment? We are going to wait another 6-10 weeks before adding fish to the main tank. Will hook up a UV. Scary knowing this could still be in there. Other fish in tank look great and show no signs. Thanks Rusty and Nikki, you guys were big helps. Really bummed out but thruthfully kinda glad it's over. :( ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 2:56am
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Whoa...I'm so sorry. Furan2 is just an antibiotic. I doubt all of them were allergic, and I've never heard of it causing death. I did a quick search and can't find anything either. What is the expiration date? What was your ammonia level? What were you doing to control ammonia in your qt? Did you have other medications in there? How big was your qt? How long after the meds did they die? Again, I'm terribly sorry. That's really sad and frustrating. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 6:51am
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So sorry for your loss. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 11:21am
My wife and I were tag teaming it so I don't have that information in front of me. We were doing frequent water changes before the Furan. It was a 30gal tank a friend loaned us, it probably had too heavy of a bioload for the size but I didn't have any other options at the time.
No other meds. The remaining 4 went within the first two days of dosing (we were on WC 1 and dose 3 when I checked and they died). ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
ReefdUp wrote:Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 12:01pm
This totally made sense after going through the process. Very much a learning curve. Spent probably 20-30 hours between the two of us working to save the fish and with the negative outcome I can see where I could have saved the time and heartbreak but just letting it be. Glad I fought for the fish and really appreciated the advice, just reading this again I definitely get where Adam was coming from.
Will be doing more research when we restart, will have a QT system setup (I don't think this is what caused the issue but I am going to be more diligent) and will introduce fish with a freshwater dip (after seeing it didn't harm them, always freaked me out though) when purchasing.
Again everyone thanks for the help. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 3:35pm
Avoiding a tank crash - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9664" rel="nofollow - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9664 Aloha  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 6:05pm
Wish I had been wrong. Unfortunately something I've seen happen in many tanks. Sorry Jon, Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 6:35pm
See if I can talk Bacot into a SeaStar article. ------------- 180G Mixed Reef Tank 170G Dart Frog Tank |