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First time reefer

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Forum Name: Introduce Yourself
Forum Description: Introduce Yourself the the club.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72966
Printed Date: March 29 2024 at 3:45am
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Topic: First time reefer
Posted By: colesnwbds
Subject: First time reefer
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 1:39pm
ALCON,
 
Looking forward to being a part of this Forum, and gleaning advice from your knowledge and wisdom!
 
I'm a Father or two, college graduate, combat veteran, and have enjoyed having a freshwater tank in the past.  Excited to start in the world of reef keeping.
 
I have done a lot of homework, and finally ordered myself a new tank with all the goodies as follows:
 
jbj 28 g all in one nano cube with true temp heater. (wanted bigger tank, but space is an issue)
Small coralife protein skimmer.
ATO system.
RO/DI system.
30 lbs of dry fiji aragonite.
20lbs of caribsea sand.
Test kits, salt mix, and other supplies.
 
I just arranged my dry rock and built a pvc stand to raise the rock off the bottom, and to hold it in place.  Still waiting on my tank stand to arrive in the mail, then I will begin the setup process.
 
I'm looking to modify the back of the tank (sump area) into a refugium of sorts with some live rock rubble and chaeto.
 
I would like to eventually have some active fish, and variety of corals and invertebrates
 
If anyone wants to donate some live rock rubble to help seed my dry rock, or some chaeto I would be so greatful. I'm a little sticker shocked at the cost of my system even though I found some great deals along the way.
 
I plan on attending a meeting here and there when I have a chance, hopefully meet some folks in my area to bounce ideas off of.
 
Wish me happy cycling!
 
 
 



Replies:
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 2:04pm
I'm in Centerville. I have all the sand and rubble you could ever want.
801.809.2326

Adam

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Come to a meeting, they�re fun!


Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 2:30pm
Awesome!
 
I will send a text your way here in the next day or two
 
Thanks!


Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 2:33pm
From my own personal experience attempting to modify the rear chamber into a refugium just ended up being a great place to trap all your extra detritus. I know alot of people have used the middle chamber for it but its really hard to get the right amount of flow angled down to keep that area clean.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 2:43pm
Get an inTank media basket for your tank and that will give you everything you need to make your refugium and to direct all flow from the overflow down and to the correct locations. Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 2:46pm
Roger that.
I plan on keeping some chaeto in the media basket with a light on it 24/7, instead of the cyramic rings that come with the basket, and drop some live rock rubble below to sit on the bottom possibly.
So the flow should be pretty similar to what was desigend to happen. I'm not planning on any sand or mud ofcourse, just a clump of algea within the filter media. 
 
 
 


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 2:52pm
The inTank basket has a compartment for rubble at the bottom Chaeto in the middle and carbon (or other media) on top. Then there is nothing sitting in the chamber to block up the flow or have to be cleaned. If you need to trim the chaeto or change the rubble you just pull the basket and it's all right there. I wouldn't put anything in the chamber that is not easy to remove because it's a narrow area and very hard to get your hand into to pull anything out (especially if it's against a wall). Believe me I have one. Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 3:01pm
Thats a great point.
 
I don't want to have to clean at the bottom of the 1st chamber if I don't have to.  It just makes a lot of sense to me to have that chaeto in there until I can invest in a better fuge.
 
Krazie, your saying to put carbon on top?  I've read to do the sponge on top, chaeto in the middle, and carbon on bottom.  What's the method to the madness here? :)


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 3:19pm
The method to the madness is two fold. Having it on top allows me to change it easily without disturbing the chaeto or rubble. I also tried putting the carbon on the bottom and it settles and restricts the flow through the basket (stock one or inTanks). So if you want to put it on the bottom Then hang it from the shelf below the chaeto so that the water runs through it but it can't settle on the plastic shelf below it and compress.

I would also plan on buying replacement pumps for that tank. The stock ones will work for a while but they are really hard to clean without breaking the ceramic shafts that the impeller spins on. I would just order two MaxiJet 900's to have available when that happens.

Also did you get the LED version of the tank or the Metal Halide? If it's LED did you get intermediate or Pro? Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 4:21pm
Welcome!

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Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 7:03pm
Excellent advice.

I got the intermediate series LED. I thought I could improve the lights later if I wanted, with that being the only difference didn't make sense with the added cost to me.

Thanks for the heads up on the jets. I heard that might be a problem, do the 1200s have Too much flow for that size?

Do you still use the sponges on the sides where the pumps are?

And thanks for the welcome Mike.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 7:19pm
Yes you can modify the leds later.  Just watch what corals you try until you get a little more light on there.  Softies and most lps should be fine.

Without trimming the slots on the overflow the 1200s  will make the water level in the tank go over the inner lip of the top frame and could leak. 900s will run about the same as the ones that come with the tank.

I still run sponges but they are smaller than the stock ones and are only there to stop micro bubbles from my skimmer. Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 7:32pm
If you look at my tank thread in my signature you can see what I did with mine.

Did you get some powerheads for inside the tank to create more flow in there? Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: September 15 2014 at 9:09pm
Wow. That's an impressive DIY hood!

Sheesh. Looks like the rewards are paying off with some pretty neat livestock.

I wanted to stay close to stock to see what a plug and play could really do reef wise.

I will be ordering some pumps for inside the tank for sure.

I'm addicted and I haven't even set the thing up yet!


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 16 2014 at 6:34am


I'm a big talker here on this forum yet I often say things badly or just plain wrong so please take what I say with a grain of salt. Wink

You don't sound like a "plug'n'play" kind of guy. You sound more like a DIY'er. You have found out that the setup you bought must be modified to make it work as an effective reef aquarium. That's pretty normal for the reefing hobby which shares equipment and technology with the freshwater hobby. All of us have changed our setups many times as we learned, experimented and found new and better ways of doing things. I myself am a natural hobbyist - that is, I like finding ways to do things simple, without a lot of gadgets. For example, my ~200 gal. coral farm system is located in a south facing large window to take advantage of simple, yet powerful sunlight.

In an effort to help you and others enjoy this hobby, I created this resource thread - An Affordable Reef Aquarium and Reefkeeping Tips:  http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244" rel="nofollow - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244

You are invited to visit with me at MarksReef Coral & Fish Farm in Murray. I give away free LS, LR, Macroalgae and advice to all hobbyists, especially newbies. 

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
808-345-1049 (pls call/text ahead)
750 E. Lakepoint Dr.(~5550 So.) #4V  Murray


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: September 16 2014 at 2:44pm

Pretty cool.  I did not know you could use rock and sand from Utah for a saltwater tank.

 
On second thought it makes a lot of sense, due to the whole lake bonneville concept and all.
 
It's intereasting also to hear about a tank using actual sunlight.  The majority of threads I have read, suggest that the sun is an evil algea producing devil ray, to be avoided at all costs.
 
My do it yourself skills are to the extent of buying parts and assembling them.  Ha ha.  I'm certainly no wire and light soddering, circut board, whole cutting, type like Krazie4acans up there.
 
Thanks for the welcome, and ALOHA!
 
I will have to visit the farm one of these days for sure.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 16 2014 at 2:58pm
Just remember we all started with a box of water. I didn't use to solder and do all the DIY stuff either but it kinda grew on me once I started doing some of it. There are a few of us on the forum. It won't take long before you figure out what you like and don't like about the hobby. Water changes is usually the first thing to go on the don't like list. Smile  Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: September 16 2014 at 5:40pm
I found when I had a small biocube that when you do your water changes use small syphon tubing and run it along the bottom of the back portion of your tank for a little while  -- that will help syphon out some of the crud that collects there.


Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: September 16 2014 at 6:03pm
I'll store that in the ol think tank. Thanks.


Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 7:46am
All the parts to my tank finally arrived in the mail (after getting lost in the mail twice, adding two weeks to my start time no thanks to UPS).  I got my rock scaping secured, added the sand and water.  Got my Salinity dialed in, and thanks to Adam Blundell I now have some great live rock to seed my base rock for the cycle.
I ended up dropping more sand than I had envisioned, so I'm looking at 2-3 inches right now.  I'm a little worried that might create problems down the road.
 
Do I vacume down to the bottom glass with water changes, or just graze the surface?


Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 8:07am
Originally posted by colesnwbds colesnwbds wrote:

 
Do I vacume down to the bottom glass with water changes, or just graze the surface?

I create a storm during water changes by stirring up my sand.  This doesn't work well if you place a lot of corals on your sand bottom. 





Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 8:15am
You will get mixed answers on this topic.  Mark will tell you to just skim the surface.  Molli and I both stir ours up a lot during water changes. 2-3 inches is quite a bit for a small tank.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 9:27am
It all depends. There are ways to make anything work. I've been around a long time, so I'm familiar with most of them. My advice is based on over 20 years of intense experience. I have found that detritus/crud does not easily gather if the flow is sufficient. On the reef, water moves fast and in at least two directions every six hours. There are good reasons for this. 

Unfortunately, insufficient flow is one of the main drawbacks of many hobbyist tanks. Freshwater tanks can do okay with slower flow. Reef tanks are faced with a challenge that can be overcome with either more powerheads or effective placement of even just a single powerhead.

Aquascaping is also part of the tank health equation. A tank which has swift water flow across open sand is going to do better than a tank where big rocks cover much of the sand. The http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38324" rel="nofollow - Aquascaping discussion  linked here and listed in the http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244" rel="nofollow - Reefkeeping Tips thread is useful information on this topic.

LS is called "Live" because it has, or is supposed to have, a plethora of mIcroscopic and mAcroscopic critters making their homes in it. In the wild, a winter storm comes through to disturb the sand and take away detritus and critters. This rejuvenates a LS bed that has been growing stagnant and choked with crud. The storm then feeds coral, inverts and small fish with bacteria and bugs. Lots of animals like to eat bacteria and bugs.

Actually, to set the record straight, I don't vacuum the sand at all. I disturb it from time to time to imitate a storm. There are two ways I disturb it. Occasionally I stir portions of the LS with my hand or a stick. At other times I poke a large syringe/turkey baster down into the LS and squirt to make a puff of detritus come up into the water column. Making a puff of invert food go up into the water is kind of fun. Smile

Why don't I vacuum the LS? Why don't I disturb the LS frequently? I like to allow the sand dwelling bugs to make their home and spawn in the LS. Spawning occurs mostly between dusk and dawn. The spawning activity sends eggs, gametes, larvae and all kinds of Zooplankton up into the water column. What better than to provide this live food for our coral and other invertebrates such as feather duster/Coco worms.

One more thing that I should say, goes along with this topic. I try to create the entire food chain in my systems. It begins with single celled algae. I have grown barrels of Nanochloropsis many times, but with advancements in the hobby, it's much easier to buy Tahitian Blend algae paste from Brine Shrimp Direct in Ogden. Algae, powered by the sun, is the basis of life on this planet. It works in our reef tanks too. It feeds the Zooplanton which in turn feeds larger and larger animals up the food chain.

Aloha  Hug


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: ksmart
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 9:43am
You are getting lots of great input : ) I am just stopping by to say hello and welcome to the forum! I love my JBJ 12 gallon. I had a JBJ 24 but cracked the side. I wont say how lol but it was totally user error...

    

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Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 11:41am

I'm glad I didn't get major negative responses to the amount of sand I have now.

What I'm gathering, is it's a safe bet to vacume or push around the sand a little to immitate a storm of sorts, but it might not be a great idea to go crazy with it.
Thanks for the comments/links/support and welcome.
I am also curious about Bio Spira. I've heard a lot of great things, and many people swear by it allowing them to keep a fish before the complete cycle occurs. I have read a lot about experienced reefers advising against this, but then telling stories of how they did something similiar.
Due to my patience being tested with the shipping issues I had, I'm finding it very difficult to resist just putting one fish in there for some kind of viewing pleasure.
If I keep a good maintenence schedule, regular water changes, and testing... what is y'alls opinion.advice on getting a smaller hardy fish to add a little bio load to the system, and wait for any other additions for a month or more down the road?


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 19 2014 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by colesnwbds colesnwbds wrote:

What I'm gathering, is it's a safe bet to vacume or push around the sand a little to immitate a storm of sorts, but it might not be a great idea to go crazy with it.

If I keep a good maintenence schedule, regular water changes, and testing... what is y'alls opinion.advice on getting a smaller hardy fish to add a little bio load to the system, and wait for any other additions for a month or more down the road?

Yes, you got the right idea about the storm, though vacuuming should not be done until the tank is at least six months old.

Regarding setup, cycling the tank by adding a fish and waiting for a month is an outdated and wasteful method. This method should have died long ago but it doesn't die because too many new hobbyists read about it, do it and never get any further in their understanding. Then within 2 years 80% of hobbyists get tired of the hobby and leave, never having learned the real secrets of keeping a low maintenance yet beautiful reef. I know this sounds kind of negative, but that's the way it is.

You are in luck. Both Bob Carlson and I have written here in this forum about the better way to set up a tank using as much live stuff as possible. My write up in the thread below, addresses this specifically and Bobs write up is first in my list of Reefkeeping Tips. 
Quoted here from page 1 of this thread:
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

In an effort to help you and others enjoy this hobby, I created this resource thread - An Affordable Reef Aquarium and Reefkeeping Tips:  http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244" rel="nofollow - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244

Please come visit with me at MarksReef Coral & Fish Farm in Murray. I give away free LS, LR, Macroalgae [to hobbyists setting up a new tank] 
Aloha,
Mark  Hug
808-345-1049 (pls call/text ahead)
750 E. Lakepoint Dr.(~5550 So.) #4V  Murray


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: September 29 2014 at 11:34am
This is where I'm at so far:
 
 
Talk about rock scape overload!  I know.  I will probably move the live rock I have in there which is seeding my "dead" rock, into a refugium down the road.  I have some algea and a couple corals chillin.  I got a pair of clownfish as a gift, so they are in there somewhere.
 
It's pretty soon to have livestock, but after I used some bio-spira on day one, I saw the levels shoot up and then settle down, so it is what it is. I will monitor parameters closely with frequent water changes for the next few weeks to make sure everything is healthy and happy.
 
I might have to turn this into a tank thread, but I didn't take any pictures of the build itself.
 
My question now is in regards to a protein skimmer, I got a little coralife nano intank skimmer that's sitting in the rear compartment right now.
 
I hear it takes a few days for it to start getting some product in there, but It's been a few and I don't see anything yet.  The bubbles are foaming into the collection cup, but nothing else.  Any ideas?


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 29 2014 at 4:18pm
The tank is looking very good. I like the aquascaping. Thumbs Up
Sorry I ran out of time that day you came over.

Bacteria in a bottle is relatively recent to the hobby, but I agree with its use for tank startup.  

I doubt any water changes will be required. In my experience, using well illuminated algae to clean the water of N pollution means the first water change isn't needed until about the second or third month and from then on, 10% monthly water changes do the job.

IMO, a new tank like that does not need a skimmer... at least not yet, so you will probably see very little skimmate for a while.

Have fun.
Aloha  Hug


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: January 09 2015 at 10:55am
 
I haven't killed anything yet :)
 
And my addiction continues at work with my desktop pico reef:
 
 
Thanks for all the help so far!
 


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"Fishes live in the sea, as men do a-land; the great ones eat up the little ones."

� William Shakespeare


Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: January 10 2015 at 11:40am
Love that desktop pico!

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Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: January 10 2015 at 1:30pm
Thanks Mike.  After seeing the picture in your signature box of that dragonet, I decided to get one from Santa clause a couple weeks ago, and it's been a fun addition (not in the pico of course).  Active little fella!

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"Fishes live in the sea, as men do a-land; the great ones eat up the little ones."

� William Shakespeare


Posted By: jdinchak
Date Posted: January 10 2015 at 2:10pm
Looks good!


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180G Mixed Reef Tank

170G Dart Frog Tank


Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: January 10 2015 at 2:19pm

Originally posted by colesnwbds colesnwbds wrote:

Thanks Mike.  After seeing the picture in your signature box of that dragonet, I decided to get one from Santa clause a couple weeks ago, and it's been a fun addition (not in the pico of course).  Active little fella!


What is your plan for keeping this fish from starving to death.  I'd love to have one, but there are no live pod farmers that I am aware of in the area so have avoided purchasing one for that reason.



Posted By: colesnwbds
Date Posted: January 10 2015 at 2:26pm

I seem to have a pretty good population of pods in my refugium that are happy. I'm just hoping that they continue to feed my display.

So far he has good color, and looks well fed. Only time will tell.
I also squirt some frozen food his direction when I feed that way, hopeing he might catch on to that process, and learn to eat frozen food. That's hit or miss right now.


-------------
"Fishes live in the sea, as men do a-land; the great ones eat up the little ones."

� William Shakespeare



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