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Sulphur Bio denitrator

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Topic: Sulphur Bio denitrator
Posted By: DMower
Subject: Sulphur Bio denitrator
Date Posted: February 11 2015 at 10:07pm
I am in the planning stages of making a sulphur bio denitrator.  I have been reading as much as I possibly can online.

I have a few of the parts already, but I still need to buy some of the tubing and valves, etc.

Any flaws with this plan?


I am looking for any local advice from those that run one of these.  Either factory built of DIY.

Thanks!


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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.



Replies:
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 11 2015 at 10:24pm
I have built 3 of them and they run great. I used BRS reactors and modified them to work.

On your design I only see one thing I would change. The inlet line should go to the input side of the pump and not the output side as you show. Putting it on the output side will produce some pressure in the line that will effect flow into the reactor. Putting it on the input side will actually allow the pump to help draw the water into the reactor.

I also did not find it necessary to have the vent line. All of the off gassing exits the output tube just fine in my design. I simply control the flow through on the input side only and that way any gasses are free to exit unrestricted from the effluent line.

Watch Your PH and Alk while you are running it and I only run them until the nitrates are reduced and then I shut them down to keep from over cleaning the water and starving the reactor which will produce large amounts of rotten egg gas. I would recommend running slightly less sulfur than is called for so that you don't starve it.

Hope that helps. Krazie


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My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: February 11 2015 at 10:41pm
How much are these costing total?


Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: February 11 2015 at 10:55pm
Thanks Krazie. I will make that adjustment. Chad, I'm not exactly sure on cost yet. The media I have coming cost less than $60. The reactor I got used in a trade. The pump I had sitting around, not really sure where it came from. The tubing and connections all all I have left to buy.



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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 11 2015 at 11:12pm
If you use a BRS reactor then a MaxiJet 900 or 1200 fit right into the fittings on the reactor. Then I bought CPVC (not the same as regular PVC) fittings to connect it all up. I'll take a picture and post it. I'm running Bio Pellets in it at the moment but is works well for both.



All of the plumbing parts I got from Home Depot.


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My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 8:42pm
Hey, so I've been getting edumacated on this too. ;)

I'm reading that the amount of sulfur media used should be 0.6% times the amount of tank water volume. Is that what you all use/plan to use?

Krazie, what's the second RO line for?

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www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 9:08pm
Any thoughts on running output straight into GFO to reduce the likelihood of hydrogen sulfide?

Thoughts on running calcium carbonate powder instead of the aragonite media?

Thoughts on running a biomedia in addition to the sulfur to increase the surface area for the bacteria (essentially increasing the effectiveness as long as nitrogen isn't limited)?

-------------
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 9:20pm
That is the amount of sulphur I have read to use as well.  I am going to do that, then fill the rest of the reactor space with course aragonite media.   For me I think I have around 180 gallons or so total water volume.  The math is .006 x 180 = 1.08 liters of sulphur.

The other things you mentioned I know nothing about.  I think I read somewhere (don't ask me where) not to mix bio pellets or similiar with the sulphur.  If more surface area was/is needed, then use more sulphur.

What what I know, as long as you do something to adjust the ph after it leaves the sulphur media, that is all that matters. 

I will post more as I build mine, and how it works/ turns out.




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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.


Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by ReefdUp ReefdUp wrote:

Hey, so I've been getting edumacated on this too. ;)

I'm reading that the amount of sulfur media used should be 0.6% times the amount of tank water volume. Is that what you all use/plan to use?

Krazie, what's the second RO line for?


One should be the input from the tank, the other will be the return.  The pump just circulates the water in a loop through the reactor.


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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.


Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by DMower DMower wrote:

One should be the input from the tank, the other will be the return.  The pump just circulates the water in a loop through the reactor.


Ignore me on that one...that was one of my exhausted moments...

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www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 9:47pm
That formula is for people who setup the reactor and run it for a short time and then remove it. It takes much less media if you plan to run it longer term..
Calcium carbonate will cake and turn to a rock from what I read. Some people drip it on gfo with little to no result but that is from a few years back.

One line is in to the reactor from your return pump or aqualifter and the other is the return back to the sump.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 9:51pm
I plan to run long term and continuously.  What media amount is recommended for that?


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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 10:00pm
Two thirds of your calculated amount and plan to remove about half of that once your nitrates are down. Then it just runs in maintenance mode.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 10:05pm
Oh forgot to address the bio media. Most bio media is designed for an aerobic environment. Sulfur reactors work in an anaerobic environment. Not sure what the result would be in that scenario.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 10:20pm
From what I was reading, the anaerobic bacteria just latch onto the biomedia as well. The reactor isn't nitrate limited or sulfur limited...it's bacteria limited. Giving them more surface area to colonize will allow them to make the reactor more efficient even with less media. That's a theory I read anyway. I'm also getting extremely exhausted...so yeah. I'm going to bed. Probably just ignore my ramblings.

-------------
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 13 2015 at 10:30pm
Surface area is surface area. I'm not sure why it would matter whether it was sulfur or biomedia but since the bacteria consume sulfur in the process of converting the nitrates then doesn't it make more sense that they be on sulfur and not a media that does not aid them in their work? Don't know I may need to think on that one some more.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 14 2015 at 6:53am
Last I knew Tileman/Brad was running this on his large tank. He's been using a S de-nitrator for almost 10 years. I would visit and talk with him about it. He welcomes visitors.  
Hug


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Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 14 2015 at 7:05am
Originally posted by Krazie4Acans Krazie4Acans wrote:

Surface area is surface area. I'm not sure why it would matter whether it was sulfur or biomedia but since the bacteria consume sulfur in the process of converting the nitrates then doesn't it make more sense that they be on sulfur and not a media that does not aid them in their work? Don't know I may need to think on that one some more.


From the reading I was doing, the bacteria involved do not constantly feed. Granted, they don't do much else (reproduce and expel waste), but they don't necessarily live 100% on their food source. Biomedia has extremely high surface area for the volume. For instance, I've seen some 1 square inch pieces that have >250 square feet of surface area. Compare that to the same volume of sulfur pellets, and they probably only have a combined surface area of a few square inches. So, I'm only talking of adding a couple of tiny biomedia pieces throughout the sulfur. But I think theoretically it should increase the bacteria population as long as sulfur and nitrates aren't limited.    

-------------
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: February 14 2015 at 8:39am
Wouldnt that throw off the amount of sulfur you use? So instead of using X amount per gallon, you would have to change it to Y


Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 14 2015 at 8:46am
Maybe, but there's not an exact science to it anyway. Depends on the nitrate content of the water, flow rate, bacteria population, etc. That's why testing is a huge part of it all.

A few pieces of biomedia isn't a lot when we're talking about a gallon of sulfur in my case. If the theory works, maybe I'd only need half a gallon of sulfur, which means a smaller reactor. Or maybe the theory is bunk.

-------------
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 10:40pm
I have a design completed. I have not glued any parts together yet. Do you see any design flaws?https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/35026230@N02/16575525851
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/35026230@N02/16389717880
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/35026230@N02/15954615014
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/35026230@N02/15954614994
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/35026230@N02/16551188366
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/35026230@N02/16577200055



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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 7:19am
Is there anyway to rotate your canister and get rid of a couple of those elbows? The return line back to the recirculation pump has an extra elbow that I don't think is needed and will just reduce the flow. The same for the elbow at the T where the input line comes in. Is the ball valve on the return line to the pump (even with the gate valve) just for pump replacement? What is your thinking on needing a gate valve (as opposed to a ball valve)on the recirculation plumbing?

The 1/2" poly line is the feed line to the reactor and the 1/4" is the effluent and vent, correct?

Just asking questions, I have no real direction other than reducing the number of elbows if you can. Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 9:10am
The extra elbows were used to make it as compact a foot print as possible. I just went and changed it so it had two less elbows. It still fits, just had a slightly wider foot print.
The gate valve is for adjusting water flow through the reactor. I used a gate valve to make adjusting it a little easier. The ball valve is there for pump maintainence. I can shut both valves off and not worry about spilling any water out of the reactor, if I have to remove the pump entirely.

The larger poly pipe is the inlet from the tank. Any issue with it being up that high? My thoughts in placing it high were to avoid a siphon back to the tank when the power goes out.
The smaller 1/4 poly pipe is the effluent return line.

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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 9:33am
Ok, just wanted to make sure I was completely understanding your design. I'm curious as to what lead you to believe that you need the fine tuning of a gate valve on this? You are not tumbling media and the amount of flow inside the reactor is not (to a reasonable amount) an issue at all. I could see the gate valve if you were using this reactor for bio pellets or GFO wanting that fine level of control. Just curious here.

No issue with the height of the inlet side. In most cases you will have the flow restricted on both the inlet and outlet sides (I prefer doing it on the inlet only so that the outlet is wide open and gasses can pass as well as the effluent) so a back siphon when the power goes out would be reduced anyway. I also run my effluent line to the bottom of a container with more arm in it. This helps raise the PH as well as keep air from entering into the reactor in the event of a power outage. Once it cycles and is running Oxygen is not your friend in that reactor.

Everything else looks good to me.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 10:48am
I love everything about this topic! I've been thinking about building my own sulfur reactor :)

I'll let the experts discuss it and just leech your ideas once you're done.

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125g 90g 2x33g 34g
What stores do I recommend?
Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 )
Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 )

Member of GCFB


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 11:09am
Well if that's the case then maybe I need to post pics of mine during the build process to compare. Darren has a larger system so my BRS reactor sized one would be pushed pretty hard. However, I could use a BRS dual reactor and fill the first cartridge with Sulfur and the second with ARM and get almost the same capacity as his EA reactor. It would also separate the two medias so that the arm is not exposed to the effluent until it exits the sulfur chamber giving it a little better chance of raising the PH and more exposure time to dissolve the arm and help with the Alk drop as well. Hmmmm So many options.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 11:13am
I have an extra BRS chamber, but I don't think it's dual...

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125g 90g 2x33g 34g
What stores do I recommend?
Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 )
Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 )

Member of GCFB


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 11:17am
Your cube is small enough that it will work just fine in one. Look at my picture posted earlier.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
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Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: February 28 2015 at 10:06pm
Well I got t all together and test ran it for a day off the tank. Everything seemed to work great. I hooked it up to the tank and it will run for a while and then stop pulling water from the tank. Then of course, no water leaves the reactor either. The only difference is that in the test run the water source was about 18 inches higher than the reactor.
I tried to fix it by swapping out pumps from the 320 ish gph to a 600 ish gph pump. Same loss of siphon.
Basically, I can't maintain a siphon. Ideas?

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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.


Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: February 28 2015 at 10:18pm
I saw a diagram on the marine depot website. Diagram 2 for the korallin denitator shows a second pump on the inlet side when used with a sump. Maybe I need to do that or place the inlet up into the overflow of the tank to gain some siphon pressure.
You can see the two diagrams here.

http://www.marinedepot.com/filters_korallin_biodenitrator-ap.html

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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 28 2015 at 10:20pm
There shouldn't be a siphon. You should be forcing water into the reactor with a pump (or your return pump) the one on your reactor is just for recirculation within the reactor. Then control the flow through the reactor with the valve on the quarter inch output line. Does that make sense?


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
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Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: February 28 2015 at 10:23pm
Now I got it.    I never had a second pump on my design that you approved Krazie.

What do you think about the inlet just being so high that it flows without a pump?

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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: February 28 2015 at 10:37pm
I thought you were connecting the 1/2" poly line to a manifold or another pump. I guess I just assumed you had that part already figured out. Lol As long as you can get enough flow (remember to start the reactor cycle with a very slow flow of 1 drop per 4 seconds. Once you are getting zero nitrates out then start increasing the flow every day) as long as your siphon can supply enough flow to not starve the reactor once it is up to full production then go for it. You'll know if it's starving by the rotten egg smell your wife tells you about.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: March 01 2015 at 6:09am
Krazie, when are we doing this?! I'm dying!! :)



-------------
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: DMower
Date Posted: March 01 2015 at 8:10pm
Finally up and running properly.  I added another pump on the inlet instead.  I decided against the siphon drain from the display tank overflow.

I also see that I didn't need a gate valve where I put it.  If I were to do it over again I would place a gate valve on the inlet line instead.


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150 gal reef with 50 gal sump. Reef Octopus DCS-200 Skimmer. AI Sol Blues.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: March 01 2015 at 8:16pm
Glad it's running. Make sure you keep us updated as it cycles.  Reefdup I'm picking the parts up tomorrow. Headed up to help Kevin on Friday can you wait that long?


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My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: March 01 2015 at 8:40pm
I guess.... :)



-------------
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: Rex
Date Posted: May 04 2015 at 12:23am
I converted my old calcium reactor into a bio-denitrator. All I needed to do was clamp off the C02 intake. I did this with the Korallin c3002. I'm pretty sure you should be able to convert most Ca. reactors with that one adjustment so long as they have a bleed off valve on top of the unit to evacuate the buildup of gas.

It is the tall Ca Rx in the rear. I've had it on-line for a little over a month now with 12 fishes and 2 large Zebra Eels In a 190g tank. My nitrates are at zero.



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Posted By: Trevor40
Date Posted: May 04 2015 at 2:19pm
Rex, looks good. I am glad to hear there are so many people using these. I pick on up last week and got it setup on Sat. I am hoping for good things. I mainly set it up hoping to add insurance on the water quality as my tank has been running for almost 4 years now and I would like to be able to feed a little more.

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Call or Text (801)834-3119


Posted By: Rex
Date Posted: May 06 2015 at 8:42am
Thanks Trevor. Yeah, I used to have the Korralin s1502 biodenitrator and realized it was the exact same setup, minus the bubble counter as the c1502 calcium reactor. I set this one up mainly because of the bio load my eels produce. It has been working as I anticipated. Figured I'd let others know about the calcium reactor conversion since there has been so much interest in these biodenitrators lately. There was an older $35 calcium reactor for sale recently that would have made a great biodenitrator.

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Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 06 2015 at 8:48am
I've also turned a BRS reactor (that was first a bio-denitrator) into a calcium reactor. The design and concepts for the two devices is almost the same (just need a probe port and bubble counter to make the calcium reactor). It's amazing how many things you can make with a recirculating reactor.


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My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
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Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: May 06 2015 at 9:20am
I've also found that I'm dosing less calcium in running a sulfur denitrator with reactor media as a buffering agent. They're mini calcium reactors by themselves.

-------------
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 06 2015 at 9:43am
I was starting to wonder if you were really running a sulfur reactor and now I have proof that it's running because you can tell me the hidden benefits. Glad its running well for you.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: aceofspadeskb
Date Posted: May 06 2015 at 10:08am
Thanks to everyone for this thread!  I'm currently trying to build up the guts to try making my own.  Very nervous about getting the drill out and drilling in the wrong spot!  I'll probably give it a go soon.


Posted By: Trevor40
Date Posted: May 18 2015 at 1:15pm
All those that are running this reactor, how you noticed much of a drop in Alk the first weeks of setup?

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Call or Text (801)834-3119


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 18 2015 at 1:25pm
Yes your alk will drop. I added kalk to my top off water to offset it. You can also just dose more Soda ash if you are doing 2 part. Doesn't take much to keep up with it but you do need to add something. Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Trevor40
Date Posted: May 18 2015 at 2:27pm
I don't know how I missed this information before setting up the reactor. I am glad I tested to start working on getting the ALK up. Does the demand of alk ever stabilize and stop using ALK?

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Call or Text (801)834-3119


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 18 2015 at 3:31pm
The amount needed will stabilize as far as what the reactor is using. If you have growing corals in your tank then the amount needed will always change slightly. Corals use Alk and so does the reactor so if either the number/size of corals or the amount of flow through the reactor change, so does the alk need. Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: May 18 2015 at 5:38pm
Why does the reactor use alk


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 18 2015 at 9:20pm
I'll see if I can find the formula that shows the reaction taking place inside the reactor. If I remember correctly its because the reaction uses the sodium in the alk to produce sodium nitrate which it then converted to nitrogen gas. Don't quote me on that until I find the formula but that's what I think I remember.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
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Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 19 2015 at 8:32am
Here is a short explanation of what is going on in the denitrator and why it effects alk. Hope this helps.

Use A Sulfer Denitrator.

In these systems, bacteria use elemental sulfur and produce N2 from it and nitrate according the following equation (or something similar):

2 H2O + 5 S + 6 NO3- → 3 N2 + 5 SO42- + 4 H+

It has also been suggested to pass the effluent of such a reactor through a bed of aragonite to use the acid (H+) produced to dissolve the calcium carbonate, and thereby provide calcium and alkalinity to the aquarium.

While that is a fine idea, it doesn’t add much calcium and alkalinity to most aquaria.

The acid produced will have a long term lowering effect on the alkalinity, so if you use it, watch the alkalinity.

-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Trevor40
Date Posted: May 19 2015 at 11:13am
Krazy, thank for the explanation. I am in the process of raising my alk up 1 dkh per day. It got as low as around 5dkh. It should be around 7 dkh by tonight.

I was reading online that you need to turn up the drip rate if it produces a rotten egg smell. Mine is now smelling so I have increased the rate hoping it helps. Has anyone else experienced that smell and if so how long did it take to go away from increasing flow rate?

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Call or Text (801)834-3119


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 19 2015 at 11:24am
Yes you need to increase the flow if you smell rotten egg. You should also check for any trapped gas in teh reactor. The smell should go away within an hour or two of increasing the flow. You should also be checking the effluent coming out of the reactor for Nitrates. Generally speaking if you are smelling something then the reactor is cycling and needs more Nitrates. Once you are on the flow increase side of the cycle just increase the flow a few drips per day and test the effluent again before you adjust to make sure the Nitrates are zero coming out of the reactor. If they are, or you smell eggs,  then increase the flow. If they aren't zero then leave the flow the same for another day for the bacteria to catch up the the nitrate level in your water. Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Trevor40
Date Posted: May 19 2015 at 11:41am
Thanks for the advice, Krazie.

-------------
Call or Text (801)834-3119


Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: May 20 2015 at 9:15pm
I stopped testing mine. I just increase whenever I smell rotten eggs now. Not the best practice, but it works for now.

-------------
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 20 2015 at 9:20pm
It worked for me too. Keep in mind that once your reactor is running at full capacity and full flow, There may be the need to remove some sulfur from the reactor if you continue to get the egg smell. This is the reactor telling you that it is starving for nitrates and you either need to feed more to create them or reduce the media to lower the reactor capacity. Sounds like everyone that has tried one is having good results. Glad to hear it! Krazie

-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: May 21 2015 at 7:32am
Questions for people using this, short or long term:
What are the positives and what are the negatives so far?
Could you also list your pre and post water chemistry? 
What have you had to do to maintain water conditions? 
Have you seen any changes to your live stock? 
Did you mix another media with the sulfur(Matrix or any other material)?
Are you using anything on top of the sulphur?
Are you running the effluent to anything?
Why did you chose this over other means to reduce Nitrate?
Carbon dosing; Like Vodka, vinegar, matrix or bio pellets.
What is the out put of your effluent (PH, Alk, and nitrate)?
What would you do different?

Thanks Glenn




-------------
210 G Filled 18 Mar 15
120 G Filled 11 Jun 16


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 21 2015 at 9:27am
I've been running one for just over a year on one tank and 6 months on another. I'll focus my answers on the year old tank because it was the reason I chose to use this method. I'm pretty sure Allen Bishop has been running one longer than that so he may be able to add to my experience.

What are the positives and what are the negatives so far?
Positives I can feed and bio load the tank as much as I want and still control the nitrates in the system without huge water changes or other effects. It's not really a negative but increased Alk use due to reactor. No other negatives.

Could you also list your pre and post water chemistry?
I'll only list the chemistry the pertains to the use of the reactor. Pre-reactor pH 8.3 Nitrates 35-40ppm Alk 8.8dKh. Post reactor pH 8.1 Nitrates 4-5ppm Alk 8.7dKh (dosing increased to correct).

What have you had to do to maintain water conditions?
Slight increase in Alk dosing and an increase in feeding. I could also reduce the amount of Sulfur in the reactor to allow for the usual feeding amounts. I chose to feed more.

Have you seen any changes to your live stock?
Much better PE and color in corals due to reduced Nitrates. No other noticeable changes other than fat fish because I can feed more.

Did you mix another media with the sulfur(Matrix or any other material)?
I used ARM media on top to fill the cartridge so that the media doesn't tumble, this also helps a small amount with pH and Alk but not enough to offset the reactor output. You can also just you sponge on top of the sulfur without any other media. Some people use Matrix as a bacteria homing substrate. I chose not to as I want the bacteria to be in contact with the sulfur as much as possible for an efficient reaction. This is all personal choice and doesn't really effect what is going on in the reactor.

Are you using anything on top of the sulphur?
Answered above.

Are you running the effluent to anything?
No, I return in directly to a high flow area of the sump to mix with the tank water. Some run it into more ARM but honestly the pH drop in the reactor is just not enough to effectively break down ARM enough to return the effluent to it's input water levels. The amount of change after running it over ARM before being returned to the tank wasn't enough to warrant an additional media container and extra plumbing and hoses to deal with in the stand.

Why did you chose this over other means to reduce Nitrate?
Because of it's obvious and clear scientific method and theory. Its proven effectiveness. Its simplicity and its longevity. Final factor was that it does not rely on having other equipment to complete it's cleanup. The other methods all require a very efficient skimmer to remove the bi-product from the water. There are also many people who have experienced negative effects of over dosing the other methods of reduction. The only effect of an over filled reactor is a bad smell that your wife will make you solve immediately.

What is the out put of your effluent (PH, Alk, and nitrate)?
pH 7.8-8.0, Alk 7.9dKh, Nitrate 0ppm

What would you do different?
Started using it years ago. Maybe start with a little less sulfur and be patient with bringing the nitrates down slower so that I didn't have to shut down the reactor and remove some media. I think it would be better if you used less media, let the levels come down slower over time and not have to open the reactor for about a year and only to add more media to replace what has been used.

Hope that helps. Krazie

 

-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: May 21 2015 at 11:44am
Krazie, thanks for taking the time to provide detailed answers. I hope other will as well.

Glenn


-------------
210 G Filled 18 Mar 15
120 G Filled 11 Jun 16


Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: May 21 2015 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by Krazie4Acans Krazie4Acans wrote:

I've been running one for just over a year on one tank and 6 months on another. I'll focus my answers on the year old tank because it was the reason I chose to use this method. I'm pretty sure Allen Bishop has been running one longer than that so he may be able to add to my experience.

What are the positives and what are the negatives so far?<span style="line-height: 1.4;">
Positives I can feed and bio load the tank as much as I want and still control the nitrates in the system without huge water changes or other effects. It's not really a negative but increased Alk use due to reactor. No other negatives.

</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">Could you also list your pre and post water chemistry?
I'll only list the chemistry the pertains to the use of the reactor. Pre-reactor pH 8.3 Nitrates 35-40ppm Alk 8.8dKh. Post reactor pH 8.1 Nitrates 4-5ppm Alk 8.7dKh (dosing increased to correct).

</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">What have you had to do to maintain water conditions?
Slight increase in Alk dosing and an increase in feeding. I could also reduce the amount of Sulfur in the reactor to allow for the usual feeding amounts. I chose to feed more.

</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">Have you seen any changes to your live stock?
Much better PE and color in corals due to reduced Nitrates. No other noticeable changes other than fat fish because I can feed more.

</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Did you mix </span>another<span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span>media<span style="line-height: 1.4;"> with the sulfur(Matrix or any other material)?
I used ARM media on top to fill the cartridge so that the media doesn't tumble, this also helps a small amount with pH and Alk but not enough to offset the reactor output. You can also just you sponge on top of the sulfur without any other media. Some people use Matrix as a bacteria homing substrate. I chose not to as I want the bacteria to be in contact with the sulfur as much as possible for an efficient reaction. This is all personal choice and doesn't really effect what is going on in the reactor.

</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">Are you using anything on top of the sulphur?
Answered above.

</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Are you running the </span>effluent<span style="line-height: 1.4;"> to anything?
No, I return in directly to a high flow area of the sump to mix with the tank water. Some run it into more ARM but honestly the pH drop in the reactor is just not enough to effectively break down ARM enough to return the effluent to it's input water levels. The amount of change after running it over ARM before being returned to the tank wasn't enough to warrant an additional media container and extra plumbing and hoses to deal with in the stand.

</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">Why did you chose this over other means to reduce Nitrate?
Because of it's obvious and clear scientific method and theory. Its proven effectiveness. Its simplicity and its longevity. Final factor was that it does not rely on having other equipment to complete it's cleanup. The other methods all require a very efficient skimmer to remove the bi-product from the water. There are also many people who have experienced negative effects of over dosing the other methods of reduction. The only effect of an over filled reactor is a bad smell that your wife will make you solve immediately.

</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">What is the out put of your effluent (PH, Alk, and nitrate)?
pH 7.8-8.0, Alk 7.9dKh, Nitrate 0ppm

</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">What would you do different?
Started using it years ago. Maybe start with a little less sulfur and be patient with bringing the nitrates down slower so that I didn't have to shut down the reactor and remove some media. I think it would be better if you used less media, let the levels come down slower over time and not have to open the reactor for about a year and only to add more media to replace what has been used.

Hope that helps. Krazie
</span>

<span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span>


+1...because I'm too busy with midterms to answer any more detailed. My results/answers are similar.

-------------
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: May 21 2015 at 10:04pm
So i bought a koralin c4002 for a great deal on R2R. Going to use it as a denitrator. Since i will only be using a small amount of LSM would adding more Arm media help with the chances of it being bufferd better


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 21 2015 at 10:13pm
Not really. Remember that in order to break down the arm enough to become a  buffer the pH  needs to drop below about 7. The reactor won't drop it that far. The extra media will provide more surface area for bacteria and will prevent the sulfur from tumbling but that is about it.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: June 11 2015 at 10:12pm
So my denitrator has been up and running for almost 2 weeks. I have not noticed higher usage of alk yet. But it is starting to lower nitrates to a point where hair algae is starting to recede. I also swear my calcium usage has gone up a little.... my alk is right around 9, and my cal is around 380-390 when i try to keep it 400-410. Maybe i miss tested i will see again tomorrow or Saturday


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: June 12 2015 at 8:40am
Calcium use could be higher just as a result of higher coral growth from lower nutrients and less algae. Keep checking your alk as it will start to drop as the reactor continues to cycle.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 11:57am

How about an update on how the sulfur reactors are working out.

Likes, dislikes, things you would change

Are you still using GFO?


Thanks Glenn



-------------
210 G Filled 18 Mar 15
120 G Filled 11 Jun 16


Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 11:31am
My maxijet just died for some reason.

-------------
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: August 25 2015 at 8:53am
Mine is still running great and I've got it dialed in so that I am keeping my nitrates between 5-7ppm. I could easily take it lower but my corals don't like when my levels get too low.

I know jbuck has his running but I'm not sure if he has gotten it tuned or not. ThatGuy was having an issue with air leaking into his unit. I never heard whether he got that figured out or not.

The maxijet is easy to swap out or replace with just a twist of the pump. If you pump is running noisy then take the impeller out. you will notice that the impeller blades will turn about 1/8th of a turn independent of the magnet. I've found that if you turn the blades until they hit one of the stops (doesn't matter which way), Then place a couple of drops of super glue where the blade piece meets the magnet piece. This locks the two together and after it dries and is put back in removes all "chatter" from my pumps. I have a couple of pumps that have been running that way for months and I know someone else that has some running that way for years. Krazie


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: jbuck13
Date Posted: August 25 2015 at 8:54pm
Yes mine is running great as well. I have  gradually increased the effleunt rate and have brought my nitrates down to 18-22 ppm i have not got my effleunt opened all the way yet. 


Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: September 06 2015 at 7:08am
Mine has been running for 3 months now, and I love it. They take a month or two to start working properly.

Yes I still run gfo, gfo is for phosphate.


Posted By: peiji
Date Posted: November 06 2015 at 2:21pm
I'm really considering trying this on my jellyfish tank. I can't seem to keep the Nitrates down for some reason. Does anyone have any leftover supplies? 

-------------
Jared Page
Highland, UT
Graphic Designer


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: November 06 2015 at 3:52pm
I have plumbing fittings and a maxijet I could sell. No BRS reactor body or cartridge. I could also probably spare a small amount of LSM. It's a bit of a drive but the offer is there. 


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: peiji
Date Posted: November 06 2015 at 4:19pm
I have a Two Little Fishies reactor. Will that work? I'll probably take you up on the offer. I do pass Syracuse occassionally. 

-------------
Jared Page
Highland, UT
Graphic Designer


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: November 06 2015 at 4:35pm
I've never built one out of a TLF reactor so I'm not sure what pieces would need to change. The BRS one is super simple and I know they work.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 06 2015 at 4:36pm
I have some LSM I can sell also, if you need some


Posted By: peiji
Date Posted: November 06 2015 at 4:52pm
Maybe it's worth it for me to just buy a BRS reactor if all the plans for that are tried and proven. Other than the reactor and pump, how much is the total cost for everything else? 

-------------
Jared Page
Highland, UT
Graphic Designer


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: November 06 2015 at 4:57pm
PumpPump is $26 and plumbing parts are $16. I think you can get a reactor from BRS for $35ish.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Reefer4Ever
Date Posted: November 06 2015 at 7:42pm
I have a single brs reactor $20

-------------
90 gal reef w/refugium
24 gal softie tank
11 gal nano anemone tank
5 gal fresh water


Posted By: peiji
Date Posted: November 06 2015 at 8:30pm
I'll take the brs reactor.

-------------
Jared Page
Highland, UT
Graphic Designer


Posted By: Reefer4Ever
Date Posted: November 07 2015 at 6:18am
I will be out making the rounds today with the reef store tour if you planned on being there as well. Either way text me 435.890.6626

-------------
90 gal reef w/refugium
24 gal softie tank
11 gal nano anemone tank
5 gal fresh water



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