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Clarification on Cyano

Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Help
Forum Name: EMERGENCY FORUM
Forum Description: If you have an Emergency post here and you should receive a quick reply.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82630
Printed Date: October 20 2017 at 7:13pm


Topic: Clarification on Cyano
Posted By: Kynneke
Subject: Clarification on Cyano
Date Posted: May 25 2017 at 5:40pm
I've been fighting Cyano for months, but I'm confused on something. BTW, three doses of chemi-clean in 3 months (1st dose worked like a charm, it came back after 3 weeks.  Doses 2 and 3 haven't touched it).  Yes, I read and followed the instructions.

I see two conflicting ways to fix it

1.  Decrease lights so they are on only 6-8 hours a day
2.  Get new bulbs

So do I want more light or less light?  I only have my lights on 7 hours a day as it is, but I hesitate to get new T5 bulbs and add more light if I'm supposed to be cutting down on it.  Do you see my confusion?

I put this in the emergency forum because the cyano is killing my favorite coral, but I can't get rid of it.

Before it's asked, I've read the forum post "Type of Algae", along with :
Red Slime/Cyanobacteria of many colors, how to eradicate it:
http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37106" rel="nofollow - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37106
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80420" rel="nofollow -



Replies:
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: May 25 2017 at 7:07pm
Shorter time is less light. New bulbs is correct spectrum. So while yes new bulbs will put it more light is more about correcting the spectrum of old bulbs. T5 bulbs need to be replaced every 9 months to a year to stay in the correct spectrum and output.


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My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Aquaristnewbie
Date Posted: May 25 2017 at 11:33pm
I agree about the new bulbs. That will help rather than hurt. Years ago when I had this problem redirecting my flow helped as well. I had to make sure the water wasn't stagnant anywhere. Especially lower near the sanded. It has been so long I can't remember what else I tried.

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55 gallon fresh
14 gallon biocube reef
Millcreek Utah



Posted By: kevin.st
Date Posted: May 26 2017 at 7:47am
Have you done a total 72 hour blackout?  

I had cyano taking over a few months back.  Did the blackout.  I haven't had it come back.  Also, chemiclean is scary.


Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: May 26 2017 at 9:46am
I've done the 72 hour blackout.  I've gone 3 days without feeding and then cut their food in 1/2.  I moved from flake to frozen.  I've done the chemi-clean.  I have a protein skimmer.  I've done water changes.  I've added 2 power heads.  I have new lamps coming in today, but that light bar is only 8 months old.  My poor GSP is dying off slowly.  It was growing like a weed until this all started.  My leather and sinularia are both growing and doing great though.  It has something to do with my sand.  The red is only on the sand, but the power head blowing across it isn't getting rid of the slime.


Posted By: Trevor40
Date Posted: May 26 2017 at 9:58am
What is taking the nutrients out of your tank? Sounds like you are using a protein skimmer and water changes? Anything else and how often and what percentage are the water changes?

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Call or Text (801)834-3119


Posted By: Reefer4Ever
Date Posted: May 26 2017 at 10:03am
What bulbs specifically are you running? You mention a light bar is why im asking. Based on all you have done it certainly seems like a light spectrum issue. Are you using rodi water for top off and water changes? What are all your parameters alk, calc, mag, this, nitrate, salinity and temp.

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90 gal reef w/refugium
24 gal softie tank
11 gal nano anemone tank
5 gal fresh water


Posted By: kevin.st
Date Posted: May 26 2017 at 10:36am
during your 72 hour blackout, did you skim wet?


Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: May 26 2017 at 11:31am
Caulerpa?  I have no idea.  Yes I have a protein skimmer.  The water changes are 22 gallons for a 150 gallon + 40 sump and I do monthly (or 48 hours after chemi-clean).  Weird thing?  My sump is pristinely clean!  It has sponge growing, no cyano, and tons of pods.


Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: May 26 2017 at 11:32am
https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/coralife-lunar-aqualight-quad-t5-ho-aquarium-light-fixture

Those in the 48".

I am using RO/DI, verified using a TDS.  

I have water heading in to Aquatic Dreams to get tested.  I have a test kit at home where everything came back right in the middle of what the package said was normal.  0 ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.  I'll see what AD says.

I don't know what wet skimming is.  I tried to siphon out the cyano, but it doesn't come off the sand.


Posted By: Zack801
Date Posted: May 26 2017 at 11:34am
Have you tried also manually removing it? In addition to the blackout period. I've done that twice with different tanks and it's been a good fix so far


Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: May 26 2017 at 12:16pm
How did you manually remove it?  I tried to siphon it out with the python but all I did was either get just water or tons of sand.  It doesn't blow off either.


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 27 2017 at 8:50am
Sorry to read about your trouble. I have a few thoughts. 

In a situation like this, where a nuisance algae is running rampant, we always expect Nitrogen pollution to be at or near zero because the nuisance algae is doing a lot of the biofiltration for the system that, like yours, may lack sufficient biofiltration for the load of nutrients entering the water.

What kind of LS and LR were used in this setup? Were they dry, previously used in another reef aquarium? This kind of rock creates its own specific problems that need to be dealt with in a special way. The problems of dead dry rock usually show their ugly head from 3-9 months after setup. There is a Reefkeeping Tip discussion about the unique problems and solutions associated with dead, dry LR and LS.

You mentioned Python and above I mentioned a lack of biofiltration. In doing water changes, do you always go deep down into the LS? If so, I would stop doing that. The life in LS does it's best biofiltration when left undisturbed so that good populations of different bacteria, bugs and worms can do their job. 

It takes time for bacteria, bug and worm populations to grow and reproduce to the size that they can overtake nuisance algae. Be patient. It can help a lot to add some LS and and LR from a long established reef. The LR that has Coralline Algae growth on it is the best. The LS that has bugs and visible worms in it is the best. Smile

How long has this tank been running? From what I have read in your posts above I would guess 3-9 months, Am I right?

A full tank pic posted here would allow us to give the best and most helpful advice.

Insufficient light can be the cause of increased Cyano growth/ It may seem strange because we know that light grows algae, but only 7 hours of light per day, really is not enough light. It is way less than in nature near the equator where the sun shines for 12 hours. I have seen many tanks where insufficient light actually encouraged Cyano. I would, gradually over the next 10 days, increase the photoperiod to as much as 12 or even 14 hours per day. This makes sense in that fluorescent lights lose intensity by as much as 50% after one year of use. It may not seem dim to our eyes, but believe me, it is dim. 

Is there Macroalgae in the sump.? At this point with this problem, adding a big clump of Chaeto to the display tank will make a difference. Macroalgae can often eat nutrients out of the water which effectively steals it from the Cyanobacteria. Caulerpa algae is a beautiful addition to any reef tank. It adds a color and a look that bring variety to the whole picture. There are many types/shapes of Caulerpa and they all can be grown across the sand where they are easily harvested and can be moved to suit your taste. 

The solutions I have touched on above all deal with the root of the problem. If a quick fix is wanted, I often use Dr. Tims Waste Away.  Waste Away is a bouquet of bacteria selected for their specific aggressive appetite for organisms like Cyano and the nutrients Cyano eats. Cyano seems to stay away longer with Waste Away than with the chemical products that are made to directly kill Cyano, such as Chemiclean.

Hope this helps.

Aloha,
Mark
808-345-1049 (call or text for a more personal and immediate discussion)
Hug


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: May 27 2017 at 4:14pm
I used 150 lbs of live sand (Fiji pink arag), you gave me 100 lbs of LBTF, and then 50 lbs of live rock from Aquatic Dreams.

I try not to get sand when I use the python.  I was attempting to find a happy place where the python sucked just perfectly above the sand to siphon off the cyano without getting any sand, but I never found that.  As soon as it started to suck sand, I lifted it.

I do have one rock that is entirely purple.  My favorite rock.  I have very fast growing coraline algae on the glass right now.  It grows fast enough that I have a hard time keeping it scraped off the front so I can see.

It has been up since October 18th, 2016.

I have caulerpa in the sump.  I try to keep huge clumps of it in the main tank but my foxface is a pig and he'll eat 2 softball sized clumps in a night.  I keep running out.  It's not growing fast enough in the sump (with a grow light) to keep up with his voracious appetite.  I buy it as often as I can to try to resupply.  If I could get my hands on that foxface, I'd get rid of him.  I hate that fish.  

I have some Waste-Away ordered and it should be in this week.  I am still waiting to hear back from the water sample I sent to Aquatic Dreams too.  I'm not 100% certain, but it looks like the red slime may be turning dark-ish brown with the new T5 HO light bulbs.

When the lights come back on in the morning, I'll get a picture.  Right now, the tank has no lights at all because I built the world's ugliest canopy to hang the lights from and it's still on the ground in front of the tank heh.  I'm definitely more suited for Cybersecurity than Carpentry.

Livestock : 
1-Foxface
1-False Perc
2-Small Bangaii
1-Dottyback
1-Chromis
Handful of snails and crabs.  I had 50 of each but they kill each other off.
GSP (an unhappy one)
Leather Coral (growing like a weed)
Sinularia (splitting happily)



Posted By: Reefer4Ever
Date Posted: May 27 2017 at 9:07pm
Just a wee but of food for thought. The calurpa grows in the sump/tank by using the excess nutrients as a food source. By letting your foxface to eat it, well the nutrients are being added right back into the water colunn as the fish then excretes it as waste. Anyways just my .02

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90 gal reef w/refugium
24 gal softie tank
11 gal nano anemone tank
5 gal fresh water


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 29 2017 at 2:44pm
Dennis makes a good point. It's always been my belief that when an herbivore eats and then excretes algae that grew in the system it's like recycling and that's a good thing. I'm pretty sure it doesn't pollute the tank nearly so much as the dry and frozen foods we feed. Assuming that supplemental feeding is already being done at the absolute minimum, and if this algae does not go away after increasing the lighting photoperiod, we have to look at another way to control this algae; find an animal that eats it.

The color change you mentioned reminds me of another thought, something I didn't think of above. It's something I have had to do recently in a few tanks. I believe this brownish-red algae is a mutated form of Cyano. In recent years it seems to be appearing on the sand in the best of tanks. There are two animals that eat it, The Conch Snail and the Sand Sifting Cucumber. 

Originally posted by Kynneke Kynneke wrote:

I do have one rock that is entirely purple.  My favorite rock.  I have very fast growing coraline algae on the glass right now.  It grows fast enough that I have a hard time keeping it scraped off the front so I can see.
Not a bad problem to have. Big smile Awesome

Some concern about snails and hermits not surviving for long. Can you say more about this? Maybe we can help?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 29 2017 at 2:52pm
BTW, the simple Turkey Baster (or large syringe) is a great tool in this hobby. We use it to blow off the Cyano and detritus from coral and rock. Smile 
I also use it to feed coral. I stick it down into the sand and slowly squeeze. It makes a puff of grey colored detritus come up into the water column. Coral eat detritus. Smile


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Boston
Date Posted: May 29 2017 at 5:12pm
I waa battling for a few months too. I did large 20% water changes, dosed chemi clean two different times. On the last dose I left it in for a week and did a 48 hour blackout to finally get rid of it.


Posted By: kevin.st
Date Posted: May 29 2017 at 8:37pm
skimming wet means adjusting your skimmer so that it it produces a clearer liquid, instead of the dark stuff.  When you do the blackout, you should skim wet so that your skimmer pulls out the maximum it possibly can.


Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: June 02 2017 at 9:36pm
I've been skimming wet by accident then.  I couldn't figure out why all of a sudden my skimmer cup has a lighter, yellowish brown color instead of that thick, dark sludge.





Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: June 02 2017 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:


Some concern about snails and hermits not surviving for long. Can you say more about this? Maybe we can help?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

About 3 months ago I got a shipment of crabs and snails, 50 of each.  I now have 3 snails and probably about 10 crabs.  The crabs routinely kill each other off and if a snail gets too near a crab, they swarm it and kill it too.  I lost a peppermint shrimp for an unknown reason.  Same on 3 emerald crabs.  They all died on the same night.

My sand is now covered in empty shells.

When I get this cyano to go away (with new lights and way less feeding, it's nearly gone), I need to focus on getting rid of my foxface and maybe my dotty back.  My foxface picks at my GSP so badly that it's now in a crate where it can open and flow without getting picked at.  My smallest Bangaii is missing two fins, so I suspect my dottyback is doing that, even though I haven't seen it. 

I've tried the 'feed the fish from the net' trick but they never seem to get cozy enough with it to work.  Right now, I have a fluorescent light diffuser box with one open end that I've been feeding them out of.  The two fish I want to get rid of are the only ones that won't eat out of it.  UGH.  I want them gone.

I loved my old tank.  This one isn't giving me the things to look at and marvel at.  I don't have those spaghetti worms that I love to watch, he got sucked into a powerhead one night.  I don't have critters on the glass in the main tank.  Those are only in the sump.  I need to do something to get some fun things in there, but first, I have to get rid of my two bully fish.


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 03 2017 at 8:14am
Thanks for sharing the info. Good to know. I agree, Dottybacks can be aggressive. I have a fish trap that belongs to the club. Let me know if you want to borrow it, though the pop bottle trap will work very well for the Dottyback and then with a larger opening, for the Foxface as well.

Sorry to read about the high mortality of the cleanup crew. That happens sometimes with shipments. Cry
We just have to bite the bullet and buy more. Rusty's Reefs is a great place to by fairly healthy cleanup crew. He puts them in all his tanks so they have something to eat while waiting to be sold. I believe the most common reason for mortality in these herbivores is starvation. They need to eat algae almost everyday, otherwise they get hungry and weak enough to die. Hermits that are starving will eat anything they can find, including coral, live Snails and other Hermits.

If you want to use the WMAS fish trap, I will be back in Murray next week, from Tuesday through Friday. 808-345-1049

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: June 03 2017 at 1:02pm
Thanks for the offer.  I found someone in Colorado in my home town that's giving me one.  I'll use it to catch my two pains and then let people up here in Ogden borrow it if they need one.  Hopefully it works well.  Until then though, I'll try to catch the dotty with a pop bottle.

If I do catch it, I hope someone wants it.  I hate to kill it but it wouldn't be nice for them in my sump either.

Tank shot: 
http://saltwaterblog.blogspot.com/2017/06/june-update.html


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 03 2017 at 5:49pm
Alright, we get to see a pic of the tank.   Party
Party  Remember on page 1 in my first reply where I said that if we could see a pic we could give more specific advice? I would be happy to advise now based on what I see in those pics. I have seen this before. I'm certain that I know the problem. Are you ready for it? I mean, do you want to know what I believe is causing all the problems with your reef aquarium, not only nuisance algae but fish and coral problems too?  Thumbs Up

Though the advice we have given on these two pages is valuable and has dealt with pieces of the problem, what I see has not been covered yet, not exactly. It may be a bigger answer than all the rest put together. In a way, it's a whole 'nother thing. Fortunately, it's a thing you can fix and it won't be too difficult and will hardly cost a dime.... 

Did I understand correctly from what you said above that this tank is not fun, did not grow, like your first reef aquarium?

Maybe the experience of your first reef aquarium was just luck, or maybe not? Wink 
Based on the difference between the two aquariums, before I add my 2 cents of advice, maybe you would like to make some guesses? When answers come on their own it can be satisfying and fun. Smile

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
808-345-1049 "help is on the way"


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: June 03 2017 at 6:29pm
I have no idea.  The first tank was used, with 100% dead rock, 100% dead sand and was overstocked with fish within the first month I had it.  It had trace amounts of copper that killed every coral I had, yet I couldn't get rid of the copper.  The fish were once wiped out by a stray current, and I came home to all but 1 dead fish.  I liked to watch the critters in the sand, but hated the tank itself.  My cheap attempt at getting into the hobby proved too much to handle and I got rid of it.

I swore I would get another tank someday that would start out with 'good' stuff in it and take things slower.  This one was done with new equipment, live sand, live rock, etc.  It's just lacking the spaghetti worms that I loved and those little things that crawl out of the sand that make it interesting.   Now that it's covered in cyano, I hate it too.  Maybe a new hobby is in order.



Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 04 2017 at 9:22am
Your frustration is something we all feel. I have never kept track but I probably go through that same emotion about once a year due to one issue or another. Lately, I have lost around 95% of my clownfish. I'm speaking not only the ones I keep but the ones in my client tanks. Just last month, a friend that I helped upgrade his tank lost all but one of his 8 newly purchased fish, a similar incident to what you described with your first tank. These are live animals we're dealing with after all. They get sick and die. They get old and die. They all eventually die. Well, except coral. Smile Coral mostly live and some coral polyps are pretty hard to kill! LOL

There really is a bright side to this hobby. Coral colonies live on and on, maybe even for a thousand years. Coral are simpler animals. Simple is good. KISS is an old WWII engineering term that actually applies to everything. Keep It Simple Stupid, meaning, make it simple enough for an ordinary soldier to fix in the field.

This leads into what I am going to advise regarding your aquarium. Let me start by referring to something familiar to many of us, the Bible. The basic way to set up a world is to take it in steps starting with the simplest organisms. It's the same way this world was started. The dumbed down version is found in Genesis chapter 1.  Though dumbed down, that text agrees with what we now know regarding the science of geology and biology. This scientific knowledge is relatively new knowledge to man, only having come to us in the last 200 years or so. Anyway, moving on...

Okay, so in the beginning we had a globe of rock/dirt and water circling the sun. The first living organisms to be introduced to our planet were plants (of course simple algae was probably the first plant). You know, come to think of it... I don't see any algae in this pic of your tank.



Certainly there is a film of green algae growing on the glass and a tinge of green on the LR but as for significant amounts of algae the only place that occurs in this tank is the symbiotic Zooxanthellae Algae living in the tissue of the coral. 

Yet there is a major algae eating fish swimming around in there. Shocked It's an animal that must continually graze on algae, all day long. Because it is living in an environment void of it's usual tasty algae, it turned to eating the algae in the coral! Angry

Now let's look at Snails, Hermits and other algae eating crabs, like the Mythrax/Emerald Crabs that were purchased in bulk online and introduced a few months ago. Was there enough algae for all of them to eat? By the look of it, I can say with confidence that there was not. There is just enough algae for maybe 5 Snails and one or two Hermits. Definitely nothing for Emerald Crabs to eat. So most of those animals starved and died, even going predatory and cannibalistic to get something to eat before they starved. Cry

Is this making sense? Please ask questions.

Moving on. Why is the Dottyback chewing the fins off the Bangaii? Let's look at the situation. There is just enough algae for maybe 5 snails and the Foxface has turned to eating coral to meet its needs. Here is an important fact that we learn from Genesis and science: Algae/plants are the basis of life. Plants were placed here on earth to give the first animals food to eat. The simplest of animals cannot live without greens. In turn, the complex animals cannot live without both plants and simple animals. (Bacteria are simple animals.) What does the Dottyback fish eat? http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/dottybackschoose-carefully.htm" rel="nofollow - Here is an old article that kind of touches on it. Is there enough aquarium space for enough of that preferred food? Okay maybe not, so to fight for food the Dottyback becomes aggressive towards it's competitor, the Bangaii Cardinal that is also trying to eat off the same plate. The Dottyback tries to force the Bangaii to leave, but there is nowhere for it to go so it just gets beat up. The Dottyback's territorial aggression is caused by a perceived lack of food.

Typically, most hobbyists think like you, they decide the two troublesome fish have to go. Okay, then what? We are left with a tank housing a few coral, a few snails and one fish. That doesn't seem very interesting to me and nothing is changed so the next fish added will end up fighting with the same issues. So what is the best or simplest answer to this problem? Is there a way to keep the fish?

The answer: Algae.    Algae will provide food for the Foxface to graze on and food for the bugs to live on/in. In turn the bugs will eventually grow to offer some food for the Dottyback and the Cardinal. Of course these small boxes of water, even when there is time allowed for algae and bugs to fully populate, cannot grow enough to completely support the fish. Supplemental food is required and external filtration (Skimmer, Macroalgae in a Refugium, AC, AA or GFO) is required to clean the extra pollution caused by the feeding.

What is the best way to introduce algae to improve this reef aquarium and keep all the fish healthy and happy so they can stay and not be removed? My experience in the hobby suggests three things: 

1) Add some real and lively LR and LS from another hobbyist tank. This lively LR is a lot different than bare, white rock from the LFS. Lively LR has lot's of Coralline Algae and sponge on it, as well as 100's of times more bacteria, bugs and worms. The Lively LS will contain tons of live bacteria, live worms and live bugs(mostly Amphipods and Copepods) that will start to multiply and help feed the fish.

2) Grow Caulerpa and Chaetomorpha right in the display. Just so you know, the Macroalgae in the display does not have to be there forever. Eventually, the tank will mature to the point where the algae can be reduced and eventually left out altogether if desired. I know some people don't like the look of macroalgae in the display. Yet I have seen lot's of hobbyists become very fond of Macroalgae when they begin to realize it's benefit to their aquarium.

3) Put Romaine Lettuce and Nori on a clip for the Foxface. And instead of dry pellets or flakes, feed meaty frozen foods that contain algae. Emerald Entree is an example. The Bangaii and Dottyback will love the meat with some algae while the Foxface will love the algae with some meat.

This post is long enough. I've said more than enough. If you have questions, and I hope you do, please feel free to ask and I'll do my best to keep the answers short and simple.

Aloha,
Mark
808-345-1049 (Call or text anytime for a personalized discussion.)


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: June 04 2017 at 9:40am
Thanks for the advice!

2.  I have caulerpa in the sump.  My foxface once ate $10 worth of it in ONE night.  I can't keep it in the display.  The fish store kept running out, and I was broke.

3.  There is nori in the tank.  My foxface won't touch it.  Go figure.  I'll try emerald entree instead of the mysis they get.  Petco has some in stock.  I'll go and grab it.

That brings me to another question.  How often do you feed EE?  I used to feed once a day but the cyano got worse.


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 04 2017 at 7:23pm
Feed cheato to the Foxface. Stick a clump in between two rocks. I have a huge amount of chaeto, enough to fill a 20 gal tank. I may be able to bring you some. Call/text to arrange.

It would be good to see a pic of the sump/Refugium.
How often is macroalgae being harvested?

Put Romaine Lettuce on the clip. If necessary, stop feeding for a couple days to get it hungry enough to eat chaeto, lettuce and eventually nori. It has forgotten how it used to love it's greens, but that knowledge will return.

The rule of thumb about supplemental feeding is; If nuisanse algae grows, feeding is too much. It's a combination of frequency and amount. Feeding less is always useful in these situations.

You may be pleasantly pleased when you see the difference that a lot of good colorful, lively LR, lively LS and macroalgae makes when it's in the display. It's not only very beneficial to tank health and happiness, it adds color, activity and beauty.

Aloha,
Mark

-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 04 2017 at 7:25pm
I can also bring some Caulerpa, to be fed sparingly.

-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Kynneke
Date Posted: June 05 2017 at 5:56am
I meant the Emerald Entree.  How often?  I gave them a block last night and they loved it!


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 05 2017 at 10:27am
I knew they would love it.Smile

About feeding, it's a combination of amount and frequency. Here is what I said before, but I may not have been clear enough.
"The rule of thumb about supplemental feeding is; If nuisance algae grows, feeding is too much. It's a combination of frequency and amount. Feeding less is always useful in these situations."

If a full cube/block of Emerald Entree was fed to those 3 fish, I'm sorry, but that's way overfeeding. Not to worry, everyone overfeeds at first, until they start to see the growth of nuisance algae and then start to think about the size of the fish stomach. It's very tiny. If this were my tank, I would feed no more than 1/2 cube every other day or 1/4 cube every day. (I use a big knife leveraged against the chopping block to cut/break frozen cubes into smaller cubes.)

In the wild, fish may go for days without eating because of storms that scare them into hiding. But when they do eat, they gorge. They don't know when their next meal will come. Tomorrow they might not be able to eat because of storminess or because a predator scared the daylights out of them. FYI, fish can go a long long time, even a month without eating. They pick on anything they can find in the tank (the Foxface picked on algae filled GSP coral Ouch). Actually, they are often healthier if fed less so that they scavenge live food, algae and bugs, from around the tank.

That said, I will occasionally, every 2 weeks or so, give my fish a Thanksgiving feast. I want them to appreciate me. Smile
I also train them with a stick if they start to misbehave (eat coral or pester tankmates; see ...Fish Training... in the Reefkeeping Tips), so they will know that I am the boss of the tank, I am the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_%28ethology%29" rel="nofollow - Alpha (look it up here ).

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
808-345-1049


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Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 10 2017 at 6:10am
Update?

-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member



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