Print Page | Close Window

Great minds please come together

Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Help
Forum Name: General Help
Forum Description: The place to ask about pest, problems, hitchhikers, etc.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83207
Printed Date: October 21 2017 at 10:27am


Topic: Great minds please come together
Posted By: chuckfu5
Subject: Great minds please come together
Date Posted: September 21 2017 at 8:59pm
I'll post some pics tomorrow but I need some ideas on how to mount a doser, containers and everything ran to my edge that sits on my kitchen island.

I'm dosing too much by hand now and want to automate this so it's simple and something I don't have to remember to do and so it can be more consistent.

Here are the rules.

1. It has to be clean, professionally looking. Hidden out of the way and not interfere with the use of the island and be kept up high enough so our bulldogs can't destroy it. This is #1 to equal a happy wife.

2. Happy wife

3. Happy wife

It's got to be neat and clean so she will let me do it.

I'll post pics tomorrow but please start thinking.

I'm dosing 1.5ml of calcium and magnesium daily and 5ml of alk. Daily. 2.5 at night and 2.5 in the morning.

Would like a 4 channel to use one for top off.

Thanks in advance



Replies:
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 22 2017 at 7:17am
I think we will need some more information to really come up with great ideas. Do you have a controller or does the doser need it's own controller? Can the storage containers be located in the cabinets of the island or in the basement? Can holes be drilled in the floor or the island to accommodate tubing?

I guess some of this can be answered when you load some pictures. I think I'll hold the rest of them  until then.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 22 2017 at 9:00am


Here are some photos.   Let me know what else information may be needed.

To answer your questions

No there is no controller. I was under the impression that some dosers had controllers built in.

Also hole in the floor would be great! But my wife would not go for it.

As you can see I have some room to mount some items to the back of the island and under the granite but I have to keep it to where it looks good and the island remains functional.

I'm anxiously waiting to hear some ideas.


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 22 2017 at 12:06pm
First I want to congratulate you for coming here first. Your experience with the Kessil was a lesson well learned.

So, you are dosing twice a day. Please don't take offense, but in my opinion that's crazy! I have maintenance accounts where I dose only every two weeks and some only monthly. Even with my 300 gal coral farm, where I did my best to maximize growth/profit, I was only dosing about once or twice a week.

I believe some hobbyists make this hobby more work than it needs to be and then they quickly burn out. Rather than thinking that the solution is more equipment and that the job is to throw money at the tank, why not learn how to help the tank do its own dosing, in between weekly manual dosing. Yes, a well set up tank can dose itself to a certain extent. All it takes is some knowledge and some one time tank modification to take advantage of this bio-chemical benefit.

In my experience, only Alk and Ca need to be dosed on a regular basis and mostly just Alk because that is the component that can't be overdosed. Ca can be overdosed with no ill effect. Mg can be left alone for months and then dosed heavily. Contrary to what novice hobbyists might say and manufacturers might claim, dosing the other bottles of stuff found on store shelves these days will be just fine if done only once in a while.

Along that line, perhaps this helps illuminate why a three or four chemical doser is quite unnecessary. In my experience, just because it's available for sale does not mean it's necessary. Learning these things will save $100's and help make a wife happy.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

P.S.
I realize that using current technology is fun and can be very helpful. Yes, many dosers have their own electronic control. The doser unit is typically small enough to fit under the counter and the bottles could be placed in the cabinet with lines run up through small holes. 


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 22 2017 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

First I want to congratulate you for coming here first. Your experience with the Kessil was a lesson well learned.

So, you are dosing twice a day. Please don't take offense, but in my opinion that's crazy! I have maintenance accounts where I dose only every two weeks and some only monthly. Even with my 300 gal coral farm, where I did my best to maximize growth/profit, I was only dosing about once or twice a week.

I believe some hobbyists make this hobby more work than it needs to be and then they quickly burn out. Rather than thinking that the solution is more equipment and that the job is to throw money at the tank, why not learn how to help the tank do its own dosing, in between weekly manual dosing. Yes, a well set up tank can dose itself to a certain extent. All it takes is some knowledge and some one time tank modification to take advantage of this bio-chemical benefit.

In my experience, only Alk and Ca need to be dosed on a regular basis and mostly just Alk because that is the component that can't be overdosed. Ca can be overdosed with no ill effect. Mg can be left alone for months and then dosed heavily. Contrary to what novice hobbyists might say and manufacturers might claim, dosing the other bottles of stuff found on store shelves these days will be just fine if done only once in a while.

Along that line, perhaps this helps illuminate why a three or four chemical doser is quite unnecessary. In my experience, just because it's available for sale does not mean it's necessary. Learning these things will save $100's and help make a wife happy.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

P.S.
I realize that using current technology is fun and can be very helpful. Yes, many dosers have their own electronic control. The doser unit is typically small enough to fit under the counter and the bottles could be placed in the cabinet with lines run up through small holes. 


I would love to learn how to make my tank dose itself!

Please elaborate a little please? Next time your in Ogden you should swing by again. I want to learn.


Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: September 22 2017 at 4:41pm
To be frank - it's already a bit crowded and seems to go against rule one. I'm not trying to be a ****.

That said - are you handy? I'm not so I'll do my best to describe it. Why not build a little box on the rear of the tank that sits flush against the tank. Like a little storage cabinet that is stained or something. You'll have to bump your tank a little more into the island but it would look cool. And then you just have one power wire coming out of this box and can hide tiny dosers in it. Maybe they pull from little 8 oz water bottles.

I'm in the same boat as Mark about dosing not that often. I don't think the corals in there have that much of a demand.

-------------
RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2


Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: September 22 2017 at 4:44pm
Kind of how this has a overflow cover.

https://www.google.com/search?q=peninsula+nano.tank+storage&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS590US590&hl=en-US&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0stXh7rnWAhVhwlQKHa-BBgsQ_AUIESgB&biw=414&bih=660#imgrc=01-_rA0xTTct9M:

-------------
RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 22 2017 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Marcoss Marcoss wrote:

To be frank - it's already a bit crowded and seems to go against rule one. I'm not trying to be a ****.

That said - are you handy? I'm not so I'll do my best to describe it. Why not build a little box on the rear of the tank that sits flush against the tank. Like a little storage cabinet that is stained or something. You'll have to bump your tank a little more into the island but it would look cool. And then you just have one power wire coming out of this box and can hide tiny dosers in it. Maybe they pull from little 8 oz water bottles.



I'm in the same boat as Mark about dosing not that often. I don't think the corals in there have that much of a demand.


Lol....I agree with how it looks now. I'm waiting to get the doser figured out and then cleaning it up.

I was thinking the same thing but just doing it out of plexi and mounting it to the back of the island. My biggest thing I was worried about was the containers but I could make my own and make them any size or shape.

I test every Sunday and am maintaining calcium at 450, mag at 1350 at alk around 8.5

It's crazy but there is a lot in this little tank.


Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: September 22 2017 at 5:21pm
Hmmmm, I would reconsider whether or not this tank needs dosing.

Adam



-------------
Next Meeting: REEF TOUR!


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 22 2017 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Adam Blundell Adam Blundell wrote:

Hmmmm, I would reconsider whether or not this tank needs dosing.

Adam




Can you elaborate please? I'm only doing monthly couple gallon water changes because I could not keep cynao away. Since I backed off from the weekly water changes its been completely clear.

I have tons of zoas, a few LPS and about 12 - 15 SPS that all are growing quickly.   On top of that the coraline algae has exploded and I'm sure is consuming a lot.

I'm not saying your wrong I just want to learn and understand.

Everything I read is consistent water chemistry. If I don't dose my alk and calcium would fall through the floor.



Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 22 2017 at 6:08pm


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 24 2017 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Marcoss Marcoss wrote:

Kind of how this has a overflow cover.

https://www.google.com/search?q=peninsula+nano.tank+storage&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS590US590&hl=en-US&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0stXh7rnWAhVhwlQKHa-BBgsQ_AUIESgB&biw=414&bih=660#imgrc=01-_rA0xTTct9M:


I copy and posted this link and couldn't get anything to come up. Do you mind reposting?


Posted By: phys
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 2:31am
I'm going to be that opposite guy.... I believe dosing is a necessity once your tank gets enough coral to call for it, despite the size. Doing it more often keeps things more stable, which is a really good thing if you want to keep your SPS healthy. If you're dosing what you say you are, you're to that point. 

As was mentioned (kind of), why not build a small cabinet in the back where that plug is down to the floor? Doesn't need to be more than 4 inches wide to vertically mount all your power and your dosing unit. Tall dosing containers would work in there also. Go out to 6 inches, you can fit gallon jugs in it. You can kind of color match your current wood on it so it looks like it was made for the set up. You could hide everything you have in that little unit and mount it to the current spot so it can't be ripped off easily. 


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 3:30am
Every tank has it's equilibrium level of Alk and Ca. When these components are depleted down to a certain level, the sand dissolves faster thus supplying Alk and Ca. The reason coral and Coralline algae is growing at the rate it is in this tank, is due to the constant dosing to keep Alk, Ca and Mg elevated above their natural levels. 

If the dosing is reduced allowing the levels to decline to more like this; Alk 7-8 dKH, Ca 350 ppm and Mg 1200 ppm, growth will slow, coral won't need to be thinned as soon and Coralline Algae won't become a maintenance nightmare. Disapprove

I will speak frankly, like I always do. Wink
Keeping as much SPS in this tank as I am reading (15 frags), I wish you the best of luck, but I believe that trouble is on the horizon. SPS are very sensitive to the kinds of disasters that are more prone to happen in a very small aquarium. Packing that many sensitive coral into a 12 gal aquarium alongside a bunch of moderately demanding LPS coral is not something I would do. An accident can happen to one or several parameters, an anemone or a coral will die. A terrible cascade of deaths will occur. Full attention to the tank will lapse for a few days or a week and.... CRASH. 
If you look around at the old timer hobbyist tanks in general, you'll see less SPS and more soft coral. Some of us have finally had our fill of stupidly sensitive SPS coral. We tired of having to devote the time and attention that they require.

Of course this is just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 7:04am
I don't know why I didn't think of this before but I woke up today thinking Kalkwasser. I would get a clear milk jug, add a couple tablespoons of kalk. Add water, shake it up. Pour slowly for top off. Use the clear portion and you'll be sry. Actually that may even be too much if you do that for all top off.

Adam

-------------
Next Meeting: REEF TOUR!


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 7:17am
Originally posted by Adam Blundell Adam Blundell wrote:

I don't know why I didn't think of this before but I woke up today thinking Kalkwasser. I would get a clear milk jug, add a couple tablespoons of kalk. Add water, shake it up. Pour slowly for top off. Use the clear portion and you'll be sry. Actually that may even be too much if you do that for all top off.

Adam


THIS is why I love the forum. If I can get away from dosing I'm all for it!

Thanks Adam! Time to do some research!


Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 11:22am
I'm with Adam on this one.  KW for top-off is probably your best bet in a tank this size.  

Also - Mark is right, the coral mix is risky.  But why not go for it.  If you're meticulous in your maintenance you could pull off a stunning SPS display.   As they grow, you'll need to thin out accordingly, but that's the fun part.

Good luck!


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Shane H Shane H wrote:

I'm with Adam on this one.  KW for top-off is probably your best bet in a tank this size.  

Also - Mark is right, the coral mix is risky.  But why not go for it.  If you're meticulous in your maintenance you could pull off a stunning SPS display.   As they grow, you'll need to thin out accordingly, but that's the fun part.

Good luck!


This is my feeling....honestly I was disappointed with Marks response.

I'm pushing full steam ahead.

This tank will be on the 2017 Reef Tour and welcome for anyone to come by and see.

Thanks for the POSITIVE support!


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 10:53pm
So I guess my honest opinion is not what you wanted to hear.  Ouch  Would you rather I had not given the Reefkeeping Tip earlier this year about how Poly Filter would fix your distressed tank with it's dead dry LR, which when you eventually did use, made it possible to grow all those cool animals?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 6:20am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

So I guess my honest opinion is not what you wanted to hear.  Ouch  Would you rather I had not given the Reefkeeping Tip earlier this year about how Poly Filter would fix your distressed tank with it's dead dry LR, which when you eventually did use, made it possible to grow all those cool animals?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


I asked for help in installing a doser. Most of what I got was it doesn't need it or from you it's a disaster waiting to happen.

It's my tank. Help me with the question I asked....dont give your opinion on something I didn't even ask for.

When you came over and visited and talked about the tank you never ONCE said what you posted above.

I asked for help on the doser. Adam game some advice on going another route with kalkwasser which is great. Others have gave me some ideas about a doser but in your mind my tank will ultimately fail.

What I would like us an idea on how to mount the doser or an alternative not so negative.

Guess what the nitrate pad....never used it. I tried it and did nothing. I had it in my tank for a couple of weeks Nd saw no change. I said that to try to make ammends.

This forum has changed so much than what it was. I just RECENTLY joined reef2reef because I liked talking to the local folks more....im starting to reconsider.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 6:46am
Any chance your wife would consider allowing you to have the top shelf/drawer just under the tank? Then you could put all of those power supplies and the dosing stuff inside the cabinet and just have a single hole in the end of the island (near the power outlets) where any cords or tubing could be fed to the tank. This would not only help you with dosing but it would make the wife happier by helping hide those cords even more than they already are and not be in the way of someone using the bar stool.

Do you have a picture of the front side of the cabinet so that I can see if it's drawers or cupboard and maybe help with a layout on how you could put things in there and how to make the drawers still functional?


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 7:14am
I'll get a pic of it this morning. It's drawers on that side.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 7:33am
Maybe she will give you the space where the bottom drawer goes (no one uses that drawer except for junk anyway) and you could remove the front from it so that you had the entire space where the drawer was but from the front it still looks like it is there?


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 7:39am
Hmmm.... that's a really great idea actually.

I think this may be the way I decide to go.


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 7:46am
You could even tap into the power that is already there and keep the plugs inside the cabinet.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 10:08am
Thinking about the drawer idea ...

What if you built a small platform on which you set the tank.   Use a drawer within the platform to store the equipment and hide any gadgets.  The drawback is size, but depending on what you store under the tank, you could keep it small.   It may detract from the overall look you're going for, but I think it might keep the clutter from accumulating under the counter top.


Posted By: Corey Price
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 12:52pm
I like the idea of the platform. Sounds like a good solution to me.

Your level of care and effort can (generally) be reflected in how your tank looks.   



Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by chuckfu5 chuckfu5 wrote:

Guess what the nitrate pad....never used it. I tried it and did nothing. I had it in my tank for a couple of weeks Nd saw no change. I said that to try to make ammends.
"Never used it" OR "had it in my tank for a couple weeks" Which is it?  What color did it change to? And by the way, it's not a "nitrate pad", it's a pad of de-ionizing resin. It removes a build up of various things including heavy metals, medications and other harmful compounds from the water, rock and substrate. Sometimes a couple weeks is all it takes.

So I accepted your invitation to drive from Murray to Ogden, brought some coral and other live stuff for your tank, spent an hour talking fish, left your house without asking for or hearing any offer of compensation from you for my gas or the coral. Now you say that you lied to me in an attempt to "make amends". What kind of a person are you?


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 5:06pm
Mark I'm going to invite you to either stick to the topic of the original thread or move on. There is no need to continue this banter please.


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 7:30pm
...


Posted By: phys
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 11:10pm
The drawer idea is pretty cool. Just be sure that if there is a leak or spillage that it cant get into the drawer and on any wiring.. Not hard to do though. A lot of tanks have a fancy thing to sit on!


Posted By: chuckfu5
Date Posted: September 27 2017 at 5:48am
I think I'm done with Utah Reefs for awhile.

Thanks for the ideas.



Print Page | Close Window