WMAS Discussion Forum : Setting ozone levels

Setting ozone levels : "Potential"<-->...

Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:14:23 +0000

Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 13004
Posted: July 06 2006 at 12:14am

"Potential" <--> "millivolts"

Of course. I'll bet you could see the light go on in my head from miles away on that one.

But I still don't understand ORP like I should. Do a little reading, I will.

Setting ozone levels : could a newly set uptank without...

Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:48:32 +0000

Author: jfinch
Subject: 13004
Posted: July 05 2006 at 8:48am

could a newly set up tank without fish and without O3, but with mature LS, mature LR and an ORP indicator, measure over 500? over 700?

No, I don't think so.

Your tap or RO water will likely have an ORP ~350 mV. Bacteria drive ORP down (well decomposing bacteria). If your rock is "live" it is also dying, providing food for these reducing bacteria.

Since ORP is a measure of "potential",

You might not be using that term correctly. It's not "potential" in the way you'd say "Jimmy's going to Harvard Law School, he has the potential to be very successful". It's potential in the electrial sense. i.e. voltage.

Setting ozone levels : Okay. Here's a question....

Wed, 05 Jul 2006 00:06:22 +0000

Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 13004
Posted: July 05 2006 at 12:06am

Okay. Here's a question.

Since ORP is a measure of "potential", could a newly set up tank without fish and without O3, but with mature LS, mature LR and an ORP indicator, measure over 500? over 700?

Edited by Mark Peterson - July 05 2006 at 12:08am

Setting ozone levels : Ok the probe was causing a artificial...

Tue, 04 Jul 2006 23:45:55 +0000

Author: dadofrad
Subject: 13004
Posted: July 04 2006 at 11:45pm

Ok the probe was causing a artificial high. I am down to 330 mv and the ozone is up and running.

I really like what has been said here, and have been thinking about Julian Srpungs lecture about chemical warfare between the corals. It would be my guess that if the ozone ran constant it may aid a great deal in neutralizing this type of fuding between neighboring corals, and eradicating any come back of the ick I originally purchased it for, besides the obvious cleaner water.

I would also agree that the controler needs to be set as an uper end limiter not as an off and on cycler of ozone, allowing a constant inflow of ozone at what ever that level may be. Now to get everything dialed in, and start recognizing the bennifits O3 has to offer, instead of having an expensive paper weight.

I appreciate the feed back and open discussion of thoughts. Like life our aquariums don't come with an owners manual. (who reads directions any way?)

Setting ozone levels : When I first got the ozone unit...

Tue, 04 Jul 2006 18:38:21 +0000

Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 13004
Posted: July 04 2006 at 6:38pm

When I first got the ozone unit installed, I brought the ozone slowly up over a period of a month or so, and then the ozone would stay high for days at a time, with out turning on at all, then it fell into a cycle that it would be on for a few days then off for a few days, so I turned the output down just a little until the unit was running all of the time, with that change the tank seems to be doing better(along with keeping up on water changes, they still matter) overall, than with out the ozone unit.

I belive and agree with Mark, that the entire tank should be eyeballed every day so that you can see the changes, Just the other day My wife was complaining on how the tank had lost some of it's color, and sure enough the alk, and calcium levels had dropped, what had changed?
I had been neglecting water changes. Did two 10% water changes over a 4 day period, and wow the tank looks better again. so for all of our high tech, the basics still matter
I really need to get the Kalk up and going but for some reason I just think that I am going to crash the entire tank by mixing it up wrong.

Brian

Brian

Setting ozone levels : The weird thing about O3 is that...

Tue, 04 Jul 2006 18:17:58 +0000

Author: jfinch
Subject: 13004
Posted: July 04 2006 at 6:17pm

The weird thing about O3 is that we don't really understand it that well. It can be more than 500 even as much as 700 in a tank without O3, yet in another tank, the use of O3 to try to raise it past 400 may kill things.

I would argue that ORP is understood (it's used extensively in the water treatment industry) and it doesn't make any difference if it's measuring in a swimming pool, cooling tower, sewer effluent or reef tank. And a reef tank with an ORP of 700 mV is not going to be a healthy tank (I suspect you had a bad or dirty probe).

and I still have purple beads even at the entry end of the dryer after 2 months.

Then don't trust the color change. They're spent and you should recharge 'em.

This may sound crazy but having the O3 turned off and on by the "controller" is a waste of time,

I agree with Mark (ok, 50% of that statement). I would think it's gotta be better to dribble a small amount over longer times (all day) then have it cycling on and off. If I had a controller I'd only use it to shut off if the orp got too high (400 - 425, in my unexperienced opinion) and I'd throttle the ozone output down to the point that the controller never turned it off. I'm beginning to think that Mark's right about just eyeballing it too.

Setting ozone levels : Humidity causes the unit to corrode....

Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:39:59 +0000

Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 13004
Posted: July 04 2006 at 5:39pm

Humidity causes the unit to corrode. Keeping the unit out from under the stand and changing out drying beads would keep it going a long time.

A public reef to swim in, right here in Utah. That would be way way cool. let's do it.

Setting ozone levels : the probe does tend to accululate...

Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:57:03 +0000

Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 13004
Posted: July 04 2006 at 4:57pm

the probe does tend to accululate algea growth which causes the reading to change upward, I have heard of people cleaning probes on a weekly basis, my probe is one that I borrowed from the pools, that had been inaccurate to use on a pool, so it is designed differently, but it has been staying clean for months at a time.

The controller IMHO is there as a safety so that in case the o3 unit or probe goes nuts the controller will shut it down,

I have ozone units that are in excess of 5+ years(on the pools) that are showing no signs of loss of o3 output, Mark where did you get that info?

As far as the hottubs and pools I wish that I could kill every microbe, it would be easier, in fact, when everything is doing great I am simply keeping it in balance, nothing more,
very similar things are in play, and at the least, the science is the same. The way to get there is very different, I agree, but I still measure and adjust, alk, calcuim levels, ph and orp.

Belive me those micobes put up one heck of a fight day in and day out.

But then again we don't have people swiming in our tanks daily.

Oh, and if I could fill that 80K pool with salt and live rock, you better belive I would.

Brian

Setting ozone levels : Using O3 to increase oxidation...

Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:07:32 +0000

Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 13004
Posted: July 04 2006 at 4:07pm

Using O3 to increase oxidation in a reef aquarium is a little different than trying to kill every microbe in a hot tub.

Since it doesn't run much, your fish are evidently staying ich free on their own. Imagine that.

O3, used properly, will actually help those filter feeders because it assists the tank to oxidize/burn up waste products.

This may sound crazy but having the O3 turned off and on by the "controller" is a waste of time, IMO. Assuming that Ozone Generator produces 250 mg/l , hence the writing on the unit, when the knob is turned all the way that's 250. Half way should be 125 mg/l

Try this:

Set the knob to 5% of it's travel (about 12 mg/l) and watch the ORP for a few days. As long as it hasn't gone higher than 400, nudge the knob a little higher. Watch the ORP and the tank. Is everything looking okay. Great. Leave it there for a few days or longer. Things will be fine. You could try increasing it later to see if it makes things look better or worse. As long as adjustments are made small and days are allowed to observe the effect, your tank will be fine.

In normal conditions, the probe cannot be dirty after only 2 months.

Also, as time passes Ozone generators lose productivity, so the knob needs to be turned up to get the same production.

IMO, O3 should be periodically tested by sucking on the output. (Note: suck not inhale ) O3 has a particular taste. At 5 mg/l the taste is barely discernable, at 30 mg/l it's pretty strong and at 50 mg/l it's nasty.

Edited by Mark Peterson - July 04 2006 at 4:30pm

Setting ozone levels : Thanks Brian, I will clean the...

Tue, 04 Jul 2006 13:47:04 +0000

Author: dadofrad
Subject: 13004
Posted: July 04 2006 at 1:47pm

Thanks Brian, I will clean the probe and see what numbers I get. Also thanks for the explanations.