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  <title>WMAS Discussion Forum : Phosphate Removal</title>
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   <title><![CDATA[Phosphate Removal : Wow! I am so pumped about PO4!I...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28007&amp;PID=254112&amp;title=phosphate-removal#254112</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=68">Suzy</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 28007<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> September&nbsp;24&nbsp;2008 at 8:46am<br /><br />&nbsp;Wow! I am so pumped about PO4!<br><br>&nbsp;I tested a few days ago and had zero PO4! I have been trying to drive it down, and it was going down steadily but slowly. I had to go get another test kit to make sure it was right. It was zero on the new test kit, too!<br><br>&nbsp;Cool thing is, my skimmer is so crud encrusted it doesn't produce any skimmate. I haven't used PO4 adsorbers for months!<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;Alas, a few of my pink corals have turned bright purple. But, they are growing like mad so I guess they were supposed to be purple! I am going to think of them as dark pink, though.<br>&nbsp;<br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Phosphate Removal :  Certainly there are many associated...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28007&amp;PID=252854&amp;title=phosphate-removal#252854</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=4">Mark Peterson</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 28007<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> September&nbsp;16&nbsp;2008 at 6:40pm<br /><br /><DIV><DIV>Certainly there are many associated variables that can combine to cause problems.</DIV></DIV><DIV>I don't have all the answers as to why and how, I just know&nbsp;what I've observed. </DIV><DIV>In the last few years there has been a trend toward trying to keep PO4 low. Seems to me that's fine as long as the level doesn't go too low.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Phosphate Removal :   frednwilma1999 wrote:Thanks...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28007&amp;PID=252631&amp;title=phosphate-removal#252631</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1638">BobC63</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 28007<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> September&nbsp;15&nbsp;2008 at 10:43pm<br /><br /><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by frednwilma1999" alt="Originally posted by frednwilma1999" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>frednwilma1999 wrote:</strong><br /><br />Thanks guys,&nbsp;we think we just found out why were are having issues with our 90.&nbsp; When we were trying to kill the bryopsis we ran a phos reactor along with a phos sponge and some phos remover in a media bag.&nbsp; It was just part of our bryopsis killing attempt.&nbsp; We have not had to empty our skimmer in over 3 months, our macro algae doesn't grow, we have no pods and no green algae at all in the tank.&nbsp; We never have to clean the glass.&nbsp; Our leathers are doing ok but everything else is kinda closing up.&nbsp; Nothing is thriving.&nbsp; After reading this, Jeff seems to think that we have pulled too much phos from our tank.&nbsp; We have been trying to figure out what is up and we are now thinking that this may be our problem.&nbsp; Any opinions? <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Deb<img src="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" height="17" width="17" border="0" alt="Big%20smile" /></DIV></td></tr></table> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Do you know how much media (in grams) you had in the reactor and the (seperate) media bag? Offhand, I'd say you were using too much just based on having 3 types going at once.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>I use only a single 150g container of the ferric oxide media in a bag inside my canister filter and that is enough for my 240 - ish gallons of water... and I change it out about once every 3-4 months. But remember, I run a plenum so my pO4 is low to start with <img src="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" height="17" width="17" border="0" alt="Wink" /></DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>If you are using more than 150 g total I would say ditch everything but the media in the&nbsp;reactor and you could even add a little extra flake food at feeding times (great source of pO4)...</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>I'm not sure, however, if excessive pO4 remover would cause your skimmer to stop skimming though...?</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Phosphate Removal : Thanks guys,we think we just found...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28007&amp;PID=252626&amp;title=phosphate-removal#252626</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1626">Debbles</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 28007<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> September&nbsp;15&nbsp;2008 at 10:33pm<br /><br />Thanks guys,&nbsp;we think we just found out why were are having issues with our 90.&nbsp; When we were trying to kill the bryopsis we ran a phos reactor along with a phos sponge and some phos remover in a media bag.&nbsp; It was just part of our bryopsis killing attempt.&nbsp; We have not had to empty our skimmer in over 3 months, our macro algae doesn't grow, we have no pods and no green algae at all in the tank.&nbsp; We never have to clean the glass.&nbsp; Our leathers are doing ok but everything else is kinda closing up.&nbsp; Nothing is thriving.&nbsp; After reading this, Jeff seems to think that we have pulled too much phos from our tank.&nbsp; We have been trying to figure out what is up and we are now thinking that this may be our problem.&nbsp; Any opinions?<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Deb<img src="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" height="17" width="17" border="0" alt="Big%20smile" /></DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Phosphate Removal :   Mark Peterson wrote:The aluminum...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28007&amp;PID=252619&amp;title=phosphate-removal#252619</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=657">GARFVolunteer</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 28007<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> September&nbsp;15&nbsp;2008 at 10:19pm<br /><br /><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by Mark Peterson" alt="Originally posted by Mark Peterson" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>Mark Peterson wrote:</strong><br /><br />The aluminum oxide phosphate remover, the white granuals&nbsp;is cheaper and works just fine in my experience, but I would ask MrNewbie why the need for phosphate remover. Rarely is it a problem and too often I get calls from people wondering why their coral isn't growing.&nbsp;Too often&nbsp;I've discovered that the use of PO4 remover was the culprit. Coral have Zooxanthellae algae in their tissue. Like all algae, that algae needs PO4 to grow.</td></tr></table> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>In my experience, phosphate removers has always been beneficial when used properly.&nbsp; I have seen numerous cases where the removal of phosphates have drastically increased calcification and coral growth along with reduction in n<SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN; mso-fareast-: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-: AR-SA">uisance </SPAN>algae.&nbsp;&nbsp; I would always recommend running phosphate removers such as Rowaphos or BelaPhos.&nbsp; I caution to go extremely slow when adding or replacing media.&nbsp; Use only a device where you can control rate of removal like a phosphate reactor.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Thanks,</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Scott</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Phosphate Removal : I&amp;#039;m of the opinion that not...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28007&amp;PID=252618&amp;title=phosphate-removal#252618</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1638">BobC63</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 28007<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> September&nbsp;15&nbsp;2008 at 10:17pm<br /><br />I'm of the opinion that not all pO4 actually gets "removed"; something about organic and inorganic forms, bio-availablity, etc...<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>IMO if a complete lack of pO4 in any form would retard growth&nbsp;or outright kill certain algae-containing organisms then - despite running a ferric-based remover 24/7/365 - obviously there is still some pO4 in my system...</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Phosphate Removal : My thinking is that you need to...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28007&amp;PID=252614&amp;title=phosphate-removal#252614</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=5">Adam Blundell</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 28007<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> September&nbsp;15&nbsp;2008 at 10:04pm<br /><br /><P>My thinking is that you need to allow PO4 ---&gt;&nbsp; get algae growth ----&gt; grows pods ---&gt; feeds the corals.&nbsp; </P><DIV>I'm wondering if in Mark's case the corals did better not because of more PO4 (because that is really tough to believe) but because of increased algae and plankton???</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Adam</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Phosphate Removal : I&amp;#039;m curious as to Mark&amp;#039;s...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28007&amp;PID=252612&amp;title=phosphate-removal#252612</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1638">BobC63</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 28007<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> September&nbsp;15&nbsp;2008 at 9:55pm<br /><br />I'm curious as to Mark's experiences with dying corals and no algae growth allegedly due to pO4 removers...<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>I have never experienced zooxanthallae issues in either coral, clams (since they have zoox as well),&nbsp;macroalgaes or corallines when running phosphate removal media...</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>In my case, the water return from my&nbsp;canister filter (where the pO4 removal media&nbsp;is located) actually flows right into my fuge - and it hasn't seemed to retard macro&nbsp;(or mangrove)&nbsp;growth one bit:</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc244/carlso63/TankPicsJuly23022.jpg" height="480" width="640" border="0" /></DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;And I still get a minor amount of algae buildup on my glass should I not clean it off every day or two...</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Perhaps in the other cases the aquarist was using an excessive amount of ferric material; "overdosing", if you will?</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Phosphate Removal : As Mark said, I think there&amp;#039;s...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28007&amp;PID=252537&amp;title=phosphate-removal#252537</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=96">jfinch</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 28007<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> September&nbsp;15&nbsp;2008 at 3:57pm<br /><br />As Mark said, I think there's two paths for the phosphate here.&nbsp; From the water into algae then from algae into coral.&nbsp; <br><br>Phosphate in the water is an issue for any calcifying organism.&nbsp; Phosphate "poisons" the CaCO3 crystal growth lattice inhibiting any further growth.&nbsp; Nothing biological about it.&nbsp; Straight physical chemistry.<br><br>But without ANY phosphate in the water algae have a hard time growing so a very small amount in the water is needed.<br><br>I'm not doubting you Mark, but it is something hard to believe.&nbsp; Did they have fish?&nbsp; Were they feeding them?<br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Phosphate Removal : Certainly there is food with PO4...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28007&amp;PID=252536&amp;title=phosphate-removal#252536</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=4">Mark Peterson</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 28007<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> September&nbsp;15&nbsp;2008 at 3:48pm<br /><br />Certainly there is food with PO4 but I believe&nbsp;Zooxanthellae must also uptake it from the water, the same as all algae. I believe the continual use of the phosphate removal media stripped the water of PO4 so there wasn't any available for use by algae.]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
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