WMAS Discussion Forum : Killer Nitrates http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Fri, 17 Jul 2026 22:26:06 +0000 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:52:28 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.03 360 www.utahreefs.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=55144 <![CDATA[WMAS Discussion Forum]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/1by1.gif http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ <![CDATA[Killer Nitrates : I got some cheato as I&#039;m...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=457096&title=killer-nitrates#457096 Author: Lemonpeel
Subject: 55144
Posted: March 22 2012 at 12:52pm

I got some cheato as I'm gonna put it in my tank tonight. ]]> Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:52:28 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=457096&title=killer-nitrates#457096 <![CDATA[Killer Nitrates : I took it to the same place both...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456894&title=killer-nitrates#456894 Author: Lemonpeel
Subject: 55144
Posted: March 21 2012 at 11:27am

I took it to the same place both days. I'm not sure what's going on.]]> Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:27:12 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456894&title=killer-nitrates#456894 <![CDATA[Killer Nitrates : I&#039;m beginning to get the...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456893&title=killer-nitrates#456893 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 55144
Posted: March 21 2012 at 11:24am

I'm beginning to get the impression that Nitrates are not as high as 80ppm.  Seeing that picture of your tank, reading that hair algae has been growing and that nothing has died in months, tells me that Nitrates could be around 30-50 but not 80. Doing a 25% water change and then having the test return with Nitrates still at 80 also seems odd to me.

Have your water tests been done by the same person at the same store? I would ask someone on this MB in Ogden to visit or to take some water to them to test. It ALWAYS helps a lot to visit other hobbyists, see their tank(s) and learn from them.

This kind of hobbyist support is part of the reason the WMAS has been so successful continuously since we founded it exactly 17 years ago in March 1995. A person does not need to be a paid member, just a fellow hobbyist willing to learn. Smile
]]> Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:24:59 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456893&title=killer-nitrates#456893 <![CDATA[Killer Nitrates : I&#039;d love to upgrade my flow,...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456767&title=killer-nitrates#456767 Author: Lemonpeel
Subject: 55144
Posted: March 20 2012 at 1:34pm

I'd love to upgrade my flow, just don't have the funds to yet.]]> Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:34:13 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456767&title=killer-nitrates#456767 <![CDATA[Killer Nitrates : Lemonpeel wrote:I haven&#039;t...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456750&title=killer-nitrates#456750 Author: Ryan Thompson
Subject: 55144
Posted: March 20 2012 at 11:38am

Originally posted by Lemonpeel Lemonpeel wrote:


I haven't had any die off in the tank for months.

My flow in the 90 is about 15x per hour, and the flow in the 20 is almost 20x per hour. 
Eventually I'm gonna need to get more flow in the 20 so I can keep sps.


I don't think that is enough flow personally. My tank is running around 45x turnover and it could use more.]]> Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:38:29 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456750&title=killer-nitrates#456750 <![CDATA[Killer Nitrates : I haven&#039;t had any die off...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456746&title=killer-nitrates#456746 Author: Lemonpeel
Subject: 55144
Posted: March 20 2012 at 11:24am

I haven't had any die off in the tank for months.

My flow in the 90 is about 15x per hour, and the flow in the 20 is almost 20x per hour. 
Eventually I'm gonna need to get more flow in the 20 so I can keep sps.


Edited by Lemonpeel - March 20 2012 at 11:25am]]> Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:24:14 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456746&title=killer-nitrates#456746 <![CDATA[Killer Nitrates : Have any of the Turbo Snails...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456714&title=killer-nitrates#456714 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 55144
Posted: March 20 2012 at 2:10am

Have any of the Turbo Snails died? If they are the large Pacific Turbos, if not removed immediately, their death can create a lot of pollution.

The high Nitrates indicates that the LS and LR are not able to keep up with some kind of Nitrate Factory in the system. Like Ryan said, the floss bags allowed to have crud sit in them for weeks could be one part of the Nitrate Factory. The other part would be the sponges. Remove and or clean the sponges more frequently. (I clean sponges by hitting them on the side of the sink. Repeated rinsing and banging on the side of the sink can clean out a lot of crud.). I have used a large clump or clumps of Chaetomorpha Macroalgae in place of baffles and sponges for stopping bubbles. Having it lighted on a Reverse Daylight schedule or 24/7 gives the added benefit of water purification.

I'm also wondering about water flow within both tanks. Is it adequate? Can we see full tank pics that show submerged powerheads?

A deeper sand bad in the larger tank could also help. Oolitic sand in the depths of a sand bed does the best job of reducing Nitrates. Take three quarts of the sand from the smaller tank, where there is more than enough, and place it in the older tank. In three places, make a depression in the sand, pour in a quart of the Oolitic sand and cover it over with old sand. I've always been amazed at how much difference just this relatively small amount of Oolitic sand makes.


Edited by Mark Peterson - March 20 2012 at 2:14am]]> Tue, 20 Mar 2012 02:10:34 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456714&title=killer-nitrates#456714 <![CDATA[Killer Nitrates : I do have socks in my sump and...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456605&title=killer-nitrates#456605 Author: Lemonpeel
Subject: 55144
Posted: March 19 2012 at 2:05pm

I do have socks in my sump and the loc likes are the returns. I'd Like to remove the socks, but they keep the bubbles going through my sump at a minimum. Could I completely remove my mechanical filtration and just have Biological and Chemical? I don't use Bio balls. I do have some sponges in my sump to reduce bubbles going back through the return, should I keep them there or remove them too? I added a bunch of Turbos a couple weeks ago to get rid of hair algae.]]> Mon, 19 Mar 2012 14:05:36 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456605&title=killer-nitrates#456605 <![CDATA[Killer Nitrates : It could be the city water but...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456584&title=killer-nitrates#456584 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 55144
Posted: March 19 2012 at 11:27am

It could be the city water but I seriously doubt it. But I can tell, by the color and look of the LR and the appearance of the coral that the tank has been running for a long time with higher pollution levels, including the effects of city water.
You can get less than 5 gals at a time of RO water from some LFS's for free.
You can buy RO water from an in-store dispenser at local grocery stores or health food stores for about 30 cents a gallon.

Where are those loc-line returns coming from? I'm guessing that is an HOB overflow box leading to a sump.

I'd bet you are using bioballs or perhaps the drain water trickles over filtration pads or into socks in the sump that as previously said need to be be cleaned weekly or better yet, removed completely. If there is a canister filter on the system, remove it. If I am correct, the filter items in the sump and/or canister filter are the source of the high Nitrates.

We call Bioballs a "Nitrate Factory". Any media material in a dark area acts as a Nitrate Factory. It processes waste extremely well from Ammonia to Nitrite and from Nitrite to Nitrate, but it fails to handle the final processing of Nitrates to water and Nitrogen gas. This causes extra nitrates to build up in the aquarium water.

Water changes are a time consuming and troublesome method to reduce pollution. A 25% water change reduces 80 ppm Nitrates to only 60ppm Nitrates. Not enough to justify the effort and in this situation the Nitrate Factory just keeps "pumping out" Nitrates.

The real workhorse in pollution control is algae. Illuminated 24/7, algae eats up all Nitrogen pollution like crazy. Smile

My suggestions:
1. Leave the tank lights on a little longer for the next week or two to make algae eat pollution.
2. Leave algae on the glass to do it's job
3. Over the coming week or two, slowly remove the media from the sump a little at a time.
4. Buy and install over the sump what we have come to affectionately call the "Home Depot Special Refugium Light". It's a clamp on cone reflector light fixture with a "daylight" color, twist PC bulb. Total cost? About $15 from any hardware store. Thumbs Up
5. Place the Chaeto in the sump with the new light on 24/7
6. Resume scraping algae off the glass as usual.
7. Cut back to 10% monthly water changes from now on.

This will change and improve the entire reef aquarium. It will start looking different, coral will grow and look better, though the change may not be as beneficial for some fish because some of their food sources may change. More herbivores may become necessary. Herbivorous snails(not Nassarius) will probably be needed. Maybe even another herbivorous fish.

Why would shifting to purified water increase algae? Because some minerals in the city water were inhibiting the growth of some types of algae, including Zooxanthellae algae living in the coral. More herbivores will be required to keep nuisance algae under control as the tank's overall health improves.

Please let us know how it goes. Smile


Edited by Mark Peterson - March 19 2012 at 11:33am]]> Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:27:10 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456584&title=killer-nitrates#456584 <![CDATA[Killer Nitrates : OK can do. Thanks guys. ]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456579&title=killer-nitrates#456579 Author: Lemonpeel
Subject: 55144
Posted: March 19 2012 at 10:23am

OK can do. Thanks guys. ]]> Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:23:52 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55144&PID=456579&title=killer-nitrates#456579