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Low magnesium

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Davidwillis View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 07 2011 at 1:09pm
I just got my magnesium test kit, and I think this may be some of my problems.  Here are all my parameters:

Mag- 850
alk 9
calcium 440
ph 8.1
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
phosphate 0.25
temp 76

I also got some c-balance I was going to start using, but I think I need things balanced before I can start that...

Should I add some Epsom salt?

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tileman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 1:15pm
That is low.  You want it up around 1300
II can't advise you on epsom salt as I've never used it.  I have always used Kents Tech M
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 1:19pm
Yes, maybe I should just do some water changes.  If I add that much epsom salt I will also add a lot of sulfate.  I looked at petsmart (the local fish store), and they don't have anything to add magnesium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tileman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 1:23pm
A water change will help, Check again after W/C and see how much it goes up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 2:48pm
Don't worry.
It would take a year of adding Epsom Salt with no water changes to cause any problems. You have adequate biofiltration which includes the sulfur cycle to handle the Epsom Salt.
Water changes won't get you close to the amount of Mg needed, unless you plan to do a 90% change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 2:54pm
Thanks Mark.  I will go ahead and raise it with epsom salt, then hopefully the c-balance will keep it in the correct ratio from then on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 4:14pm
I use a combination of epsom salt and a magnesium cloride ice melt disolved in RO to raise my levels.
40 gal w/ 20 sump
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 4:55pm
How do you know which ice melt is pure magnesium chloride?  I have to go get some epsom salt anyway, so if I can find an ice melt that is magnesium chloride I will get that too.

Also, do I have to be careful and not raise my magnesium too fast?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 6:51pm
Slow is best. Mark would know how fast you can increase it daily. I use 'safe step' brand. it's called, I believe, 'extreem 8500'
40 gal w/ 20 sump
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 7:00pm
What kind of salt are you using in your water changes?..... I would use both mag chloride, and epsom salt. Both are required to make it balanced... you could probably find like a chemical company that sells or could order you in mag chloride (if you can't find it in a ice melt).. or just order it from bulk reef supply still pretty cheap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2011 at 10:01am
I use instant ocean salt, although I do very few water changes.  My goal is to figure out how to maintain water quality without water changes (or at least very few).

Is there a formula to figure out how much epsom salt to add?  I added a table spoon disolved in ro water to my sump last night, but this morning I did not see any increase in magnesium.  So I figure I probably should calculate how much I will need to add.

I guess Ideally I would add 9 parts magnesium chloride to 1 part epsom salt.  But I don't have magnesium chloride, so I will just use epsom salt for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2011 at 10:04am
found a calculator...http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Looks like it will take about 3 3/4 cups to raise it to 1300


Edited by Davidwillis - January 08 2011 at 10:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2011 at 11:02am
Do not add in all 3 3/4 cups all at once that needs to be done over a week or two...also instant ocean is not high in cal,alk,mag,strontium so waterchanges with instant ocean will not help your levels too much.... for an alk/cal supplement I use kalkwasser(aka pickling lime,aka calcium hydroxide) and I love it... I just use kalk in with all my top off water.

Cal/alk/mag are your 3 major elements in your water that you need to make sure are pretty stable(stable being more important then precise numbers)... so to me I would not just add in epsom salt or known as magnesium sulfate... sulfate is sulfur.. chloride is always the better "transporter" of anything cal/mag/strontium etc etc etc... so to get a "perfect balance" you need to use both mag chloride(in a lot higher of quantity then mag sulfate) and mag sulfate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2011 at 11:11am
And I also wanted to add that when salt (reef crystals, aquavitro salinity, h20) or any reef salt... if made to like a level of 1.026 basically puts all your levels cal/alk/mag/strontium at correct levels for that batch. And so if you are only doing a 20% water change.. you are only replacing 20% of trace elements.(in this case hopefully your tank is only using up 20% of trace elements inbetween every water change)

Brad syphus quoted sombody once saying.... to keep your levels correct you would have to do a 100% water change every day
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2011 at 11:13am
The calculator says not to increase the magnesium by more than 100 ppm per day, which comes to about 3/4 cup per day of epsom salt.  If I could find some magnesium chloride locally I would use it.  I will look again next time I am at lowes, home depot, or walmart.

Once I get my mag, calcium, and alk where I want it I can use my c-balance (which has calcium, magnesium, strontium, etc).




Edited by Davidwillis - January 08 2011 at 11:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tileman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2011 at 11:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davidwillis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2011 at 12:38pm
I did some more testing today, and I am not sure I am using my test kit correctly.  I am using the red sea magnesium kit.  After adding the A, and the B, you add the C until it changes from pink to blue (there is a color chart).  When I get to about 850 it changes from pink to a blue/purple (but not as blue as the chart).  After adding a few more drops it stays that color, so I thought that must be it.  But today I tried adding more, and it went back to pink, then back to blue/purple (bluer than the first time, but it never gets all the way to the blue on the chart).  The second change happens at about 1300,  It may get slightly darker after adding more, but it never gets to the blue on the chart.

So I guess I really have no idea what my magnesium is, so I am not going to add anymore until I figure this out.  I have gone through the test 3 times following the instructions exactly, with the same results.
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