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BobC63 
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 Topic: Toadstool Question
Posted: June 04 2007 at 10:16pm |
Recently added a decent sized (4" across) toadstool along with a branching gonipiora... Initially I was more concerned with the goni, being that they are more finicky; however, by the next day (after intro) it was fully opened and looking good  (now I have to get some cyclopeeze / oyster eggs to feed it)
Anyway, the toadstool has not been as responsive. I know they are not big fans of strong lighting, so I put it semi-under a LR 'ledge' to give it some shade from the halides... it is in an area of "medium" flow (not too still, not too swirly) maybe 6" inches from a Silvertip Xenia frag (which has already grown a little bit and looks sharp)
I remember that some softies can "sulk" when moved from tank to tank, and slough off a little brownish "wax" (the toadstool has done that; not alot, just a little coating), but it has been in the tank about 5 days and is still somewhat shrunken and shriveled; no polyp extension of course - and even with just the PCs on it hasn't opened up yet.
My wife is starting to give me that "I think your thingy is dead" look again 
All parameters are good (SG 1.026, pH 8.3, kH 9, temp ~78, nH/nO2/nO3/pO4 all 0, Ca 400ppm, Mg 1340 ppm) and everybody else looks "happy  "
I'm pretty sure I just need to give it more time to adjust and "unsulk"...but I figured I'd post and ask if there was anything else to consider (at the LFS it had great extension but who knows how long it had been there...)
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jeffras
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Posted: June 04 2007 at 10:33pm |
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My toadstools love the lights. I have halides and pc. I placed one under a ledge and it grew out so it could be in the light.
I have 3 toadstools and they are all in full MH light.
Is there any chance that one of your fish is picking at the polyps? Have you noticed any extension at night when there are no lights on?
Are you feeding the tank any coral food?
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Jeff Rasmussen
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BobC63
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Posted: June 04 2007 at 10:55pm |
Hmmmm... maybe I should give it more light then? I figured I'd start out as 'low light' as possible to acclimate it first and not shock or bleach it.
Nobody is bothering / picking at it...
(Fish list is a Foxface, Flame Angel, Lawnmower Blenny, pair of sm. Oscellaris clowns, and a Yellow striped Damsel)
(Have 2 Peppermint shrimp who don't go near anything)
I have moonlights (and work nights)...when I get home after midnight it looks the same under the moonlights as it does during the day (shrunken )...
Not feeding any coral foods (yet)... Only have 3 corals so far - the 1 toadstool, a small Xenia frag, and a branching gonipiora about the size of the palm of your hand... will start feeding the goni w/ cyclopeeze and maybe oyster eggs as it's polyps come out fully every day and retract at night (got the goni same day as the 'stool...)
Also have a LTA and 2 condy anenomes that are attached, open and "happy" - the clowns are hosting in the LTA
No corals or anenomes within 12 inches (in any direction) of the toadstool, either (I have a 125 and it is still, relatively speaking, "empty"...)
I'm still chalking it up to the toadstool being relatively 'new' in the tank (5 days only) but I may relocate it closer to the MHs if it don't "snap out of it" in a few more days...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Mike Savage
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Posted: June 04 2007 at 10:57pm |
My toadstool also likes the 250 watt MH. It is not under the center of the bulb but under the edge of it.
Mike
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Shane H
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Posted: June 05 2007 at 9:06am |
I'm with the others on this - I don't think sarcophyton are light adverse. However, their demand for light is obviously much lower than other corals.
I would wait it out. Perhaps move it from under the rock, (not necessarily for more light) but to get a bit more water movement. Especially if the coral is sluffing off, it will need the water movement to remove any detritus or algae that may have grown or fallen onto it.
Good luck.
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BobC63
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Posted: June 06 2007 at 6:37pm |
Well, I moved up a bit higher on the rockwork, to an area with more light ("between" 2 halides, as Mike suggested) and more flow (as Shane suggested)... I'll take a peek tonight after work, and then again tomorrow morning once the lights come on...
While I'm a little disappointed at the slow acclimation of this piece to my setup, I'm not that worried as it is definitely not turning white or disintegrating - like it was actually dying or something really bad...
More like it's just in a "bad mood"... 
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Mike Savage
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Posted: June 06 2007 at 7:20pm |
 carlso63 wrote:
More like it's just in a "bad mood"... |
I think "moody" is a good description for Toadstool leathers.
Mike
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BobC63
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Posted: June 11 2007 at 6:15pm |
Another week and still looks... well, crappy. Basically a curled-up pinkish blue, no polyps and still sloughing off some brownish 'mucus'... 
Moving it up / down the rockwork and closer / further from flow hasn't made much of a difference so far... just biding my time... yaaaawwwwwnnnn....ZZZzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzz 
Edited by carlso63 - June 11 2007 at 6:15pm
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
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EagleEyez5
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Posted: June 11 2007 at 8:39pm |
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I got a nice piece of rock from my brother-in-law that had two corals on it......one waqs on the front and one on the back.......since I got it for free i took the chance and "ripped" the one off the back.......I then put it in another place and it took about a week and a half to come back.......You know the saying.....It takes along time for good things to happen and a short time for bad.....The best advice I can give is to leave it in one spot for a week and......think about something else.......I hope it comes back for you but only time will tell....If you keep moving it, this will only add more stress........Good luck and keep us posted as to your progress......
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: June 12 2007 at 12:31pm |
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Sarcophtons can sometimes close up for weeks after being shipped. Was he open in the store? I don't think this has anything to do with light. I would look at water flow if anything. You may just have to wait him out.
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BobC63
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Posted: June 12 2007 at 6:07pm |
Jake Pehrson wrote:
Sarcophtons can sometimes close up for weeks after being shipped. Was he open in the store? I don't think this has anything to do with light. I would look at water flow if anything. You may just have to wait him out. |
Yes, it was a medium brown tone, fully opened with good polyp extension.
Here is what it looks like today: (not so bluish in person)
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* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Mike Savage
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Posted: June 12 2007 at 6:18pm |
I would make sure it's in a good flow area (medium flow) and hope for the best.
Mike
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: June 13 2007 at 9:31am |
Do you periodically use Activated Carbon? If not, I'd use a cup or two of AC in a bag placed near the return pump or other area of good flow. This will do two things; 1) remove territorial toxins produced by the Mushroom Leather which inhibit the growth of other coral and 2) remove toxins produced by everything else in the tank which could bother the Mushroom Leather.
Remove the AC after 2-3 weeks (the AC is spent) and then do it again after 2-3 more weeks. This is a good preventive reef aquarium maintenance procedure.
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Rod M.
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Posted: June 13 2007 at 4:05pm |
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I had a toadstool that "sulked" for 3 months, it was small, smooth and fairly hard, but maintained a good color. Now its tripled in size, good polyp extention and color. Moving it (I think) caused the sulk. I have no idea what changed for it to improve its mood.
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Rod Murri
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90g main/ 30g sump
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BobC63
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Posted: June 13 2007 at 4:52pm |
Mark Peterson wrote:
Do you periodically use Activated Carbon? If not, I'd use a cup or two of AC in a bag placed near the return pump or other area of good flow. This will do two things; 1) remove territorial toxins produced by the Mushroom Leather which inhibit the growth of other coral and 2) remove toxins produced by everything else in the tank which could bother the Mushroom Leather.Remove the AC after 2-3 weeks (the AC is spent) and then do it again after 2-3 more weeks. This is a good preventive reef aquarium maintenance procedure. |
Yes, Mark I run carbon in one of my Fluval 404 filters (which doubles as my 'return pump' from my sump)... and I change it out about once a month... if I don't see improvement (In fact I just changed the carbon today) within the next 2 weeks I will increase the changeout schedule to every 2 weeks instead of every month...
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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BobC63
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Posted: June 13 2007 at 4:59pm |
Rod M. wrote:
I had a toadstool that "sulked" for 3 months, it was small, smooth and fairly hard, but maintained a good color. Now its tripled in size, good polyp extention and color. Moving it (I think) caused the sulk. I have no idea what changed for it to improve its mood. |
The last similar soft coral I had was a Devils Hand... it 'sulked', too - but after about a week it opened up and had decent polyp extension.
I have had the Toadstool for about 2 - 2.5 weeks now and (as the picture above shows) it is still curled up and sloughing off; I am a little concerned but I check it daily to make sure it is not disintegrating or dying off...
Other than that, my water conditions are pretty optimal and stable, enough water flow to remove the "slough", good lighting, nobody (fish or invert) is picking at it, no other corals close enough to be stinging or irritating it...
I guess that's pretty much all I can do, except wait... 
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: June 14 2007 at 9:19am |
I just found pics of your system in the other thread about your triumph over algae. 
Are you still running the PO4 remover?
Edited by Mark Peterson - June 14 2007 at 10:37am
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BobC63
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Posted: June 14 2007 at 4:48pm |
Mark Peterson wrote:
I just found pics of your system in the other thread about your triumph over algae.
Are you still running the PO4 remover? |
Yes, still the original media, too - I figured I'd change it out every 3 months or whenever PO4 is detected - whichever comes first...
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: June 14 2007 at 10:38pm |
I would discard the PO4 removal media and not replace it. It should never be used continuously. Continuous use depletes the water of the PO4 necessary for coral growth Yes, phosphate is a necessary component of coral growth. Zooxanthellae algae is algae so it needs phosphate to grow. If Zooxanthellae algae cannot grow, coral suffer and die.
Leathers are especially sensitive to the lack of PO4 because they are large, grow fast, and therefore need more phophate. PO4 removal is only recommended when combating an algae problem. It's entirely possible that this old Mushroom Leather has come into this tank needing PO4 the same way a traveler through the desert needs water.
Normally phosphate is plentiful and is replenished by normal fish feeding. As an old hobbyist, who grew a lot of coral, I never worried much about PO4.
How many snails and hermits are in this tank?
How are the Fluval's used and what flow do they deliver?
What are the Alk and Ca levels?
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BobC63
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Posted: June 14 2007 at 10:53pm |
Mark Peterson wrote:
I would discard the PO4 removal media and not replace it. It should never be used continuously. Continuous use depletes the water of the PO4 necessary for coral growth Yes, phosphate is a necessary component of coral growth. Zooxanthellae algae is algae so it needs phosphate to grow. If Zooxanthellae algae cannot grow, coral suffer and die.
Leathers are especially sensitive to the lack of PO4 because they are large, grow fast, and therefore need more phophate. PO4 removal is only recommended when combating an algae problem. It's entirely possible that this old Mushroom Leather has come into this tank needing PO4 the same way a traveler through the desert needs water.
Normally phosphate is plentiful and is replenished by normal fish feeding. As an old hobbyist, who grew a lot of coral, I never worried much about PO4.
How many snails and hermits are in this tank?
How are the Fluval's used and what flow do they deliver?
What are the Alk and Ca levels? |
Snails / hermits = between 20 and 35 total
One Fluval is is used as the "return" from the sump; inflow siphon is in the last 'compartment' of the sump, outflow tube is in the display. This Fluval runs only the large vertical foam "prefilter pad" and 2 pillows of carbon...
2nd Fluval is used for PO4 removal. Both inflow and outflow are in the sump (also in that last 'compartment'). This Fluval runs using only the foam and a media bag w/ 150g of PO4 remover (the ferric oxide kind)
Both Fluvals are on 24 /7 and neither are throttled down; mfg flow rate is 340 gph (0 head); since the canisters are down in the stand and have to pump up maybe 2.5 ft of head I would guess actual rate is probably closer to maybe 220 - 250 gph
Last time I checked - last weekend:
Ca was 360
Alk was 9 dkH
Mg was 1340
pH was 8.3
nH3 / nO2 / nO3 / pO4 = all 0 / undectatable
SG was 1.0255
temp ~ 77.8 - 80.1 degrees
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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