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fuge flow rate

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deedo View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 24 2005 at 1:02am

Hey all,

I am in the process of setting up a new sump/fuge. I have read that the best flow rate for a fuge is 1-2x display volume/hour (WWM). I have also heard that high flow rates are desirable(RC). Usually when I come across a controversy like this I try to reason about both positions. and here I go:

 low flow: 1. Maybe macros just do better in more stagnant water? 2. Maybe higher flow rates would penetrate the sand bed distrupting anoxic denitrification?

high flow: 1. If my system gets to be really really oligotrophic (which is what I want) a higher flow rate may be necessary for the macros to get enough nitrate to grow. 2. My setup will be vastly more simple if I don't have to design two seperate chambers with different flow rates.

Unless I am missing something it seems like flow through the fuge doesn't really matter. Many macros are pretty adaptable. With a deep enough sandbed (with oxygen consuming crap growing on and in the top layers) the bottom will be anoxic.

So how much water do y'all run through your fuges and why?

thanks for your help, I just hate being confused.

~andy



Edited by deedo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dkle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2005 at 1:23am
Is it that complicated?  I have a 210g tank and a 80g sump.  My fuge is the middle part of my sump separated from the rest by 2 sets of baffles.  As a result, the flow through it is created by the return pump, which is 900gph.  Chaeto grows well in my sump.  I harvest about a 5gallons worth of chaeto every three weeks or so. 



Edited by dkle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deedo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2005 at 1:32am

That's just what I want to do!  Very simple.

Yet on WWM they recomend seperating the fuge so that 1x-2x display volume/hour flows through it. They do not seem to mention why.

"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things!" - Ned Flanders
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2005 at 1:50am
Fascinating to read dkle asking if it's "that complicated". He is currently doing his M.D. Residency at a couple local hospitals, working 80 hours per week and has a marvelous tank of mostly SPS.

I've had a lot of low flow refugiums and yet Chaeto seems to do better in the higher flow. it can't be swept away and it does not easily clog a screen because of it's stiff "brillo pad" form.

Recently, thanks to dkle, I placed a large amount of Chaeto in the sump of a 650 gal. tank with similar flow. Over this I placed two 43W spiral PC's (claiming 150 Watt equivalent output)in clip-on reflective fixtures purchased at HD. In a week the Chaeto had almost doubled.

Adam Blundell's study has helped immensely with my confidence in Chaetomorpha as an excellent nutrient exporter.

I recommend that you run the water past Cheatomorpha as fast as you can and watch it "grow like a weed".

I doubt that a DSB will suffer at all, but on the contrary, believe that it will benefit from the good circulation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reptoreef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2005 at 11:34am
Agreed... my flow runs the same through my entire system(about 900gph).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Haycock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2005 at 1:07pm
I had good success with extremely low flow (10gph) The macro did very well but I had to use an air stone to keep the water oxygenated. I think if you're growing chaeto, high flow would be better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dkle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2005 at 3:52pm

Andy,

You're more than welcome to stop by my house and look at my system if you want.  I'll have free chaeto as well if you want some to jump start your fuge.

Dinhkim

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deedo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2005 at 4:01pm

dkle,

I would love to see your system. Seems like I learn something new from every tank I see. Have to wait on the chaeto though as my fuge only exists on paper as of now.

when would be a good time?

~andy

"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things!" - Ned Flanders
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dkle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2005 at 9:45pm
Anday,
Are you free next saturday?  I'll be home in the afternoon.  I'll PM you my address.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 5:40pm

Eric over at Marine Aquatics has been helping me out for quite awhile and I find him extremely knowledgeable.  He co-owns this company, which makes custom built tanks, refugiums as well as in-home maintenance, etc.  He also will help setup tanks, plumbing, etc.

Anyway, his thoughts are that the flow through the refugium shouldn't be too fast.  Some of the various websites and forums I've read (RC and RT), I found various opinions, but the basic reasoning behind those that like lower flow is that it allows better absorption of nutrients if the water flows slower (thus giving the water more time in the fuge), it doesn't blast and carry away a lot of the good things growing in the fuge and it provides a healthy environment for algae to grow, which generally likes low flow.

The way he has mine setup is that my overflow splits into two directions.  One goes straight down to the sump area where I have a filter sock, skimmer, etc.  The other section goes to the refugium portion.  On both sections there are gate valves that allow for flow adjustment, that way you can adjust it anyway you like it.  His preferred setting is 80% straight into the sump and 20% through the refuge. 

I have tried a number of different settings from 90/10 to 10/90 and I have to say the best results seem to be when I have lower flow through the refugium.  At full blast it just overwhelms everything and it doesn't really seem to have any benefit over the slower settings.  At the slower settings (50% or below) I find the refugium is just FULL of life.  Right now I've got it set to about 70/30 and my macro and pods are doing great and my tank has never been cleaner.  On the other hand, I've noticed that if the flow is too slow, my refugium starts to grow a lot of hair algae (which some say is not a bad thing, since it absorbs nutrients).  At the rate I have it now, it seems to do well and my cheato is going great.  The refugium is full of life and flow seems to be fine.

I have a 72g bow front tank with a 30g refuge/sump.  I am running at about 900gph flow rate right now with the current pump I have on there.

Anyway, just another opinion to throw out there...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fj40fax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2005 at 6:48pm

My 'fuge flows slow too. Probably about 80gph, but it is only 3.5 gallons.

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