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ATTENTION: Anyone using CaCL2 for tank READ!!!

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cl2ysta1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 06 2008 at 11:16pm
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1271282&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
 
 
seems all DOW products are not safe for long term use in the reef tank now. Happened upon this and wanted to warn you all as I know many of you make your own 2 part solutions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dion Richins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 12:05am

After reading the worry in that thread, I'm glad my bag was bought in 2005.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 12:21am
yes. and if you are finding they have old lots in the stores stock up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 8:11am
I find it both interesting and disturbing that this pattern keps resurfacing in this hobby...
 
1) Hobbyists find a way to substitute an expensive , highly marked up item with a much cheaper non - hobby related equivalent
 
2) Word spreads throughout the hobby and demand for the equivalent item soars while demand for the more expensive "hobby" versions slack off
 
3) Representatives of the expensive hobby versions publicly "caution" that the cheaper alternative "might not be as good or as safe" until hobbyists do a little research and prove (to everyone) that the cheaper alternative is the exact same thing at a fraction of the cost
 
4) For some unexplained reason the cheaper alternative either gets "changed" so it is no longer the same or just "disappears"...
 
The best recent example of this would be the whole Southdown play sand / Carribean aragonite sand thing... After hobbyists found out that you could buy 50 lb bags of Southdown play sand at Home Depot for $4 a bag and use it in place of the $30 - $40 bags of Carribean aragonite sold at hobby retailers word spread like wildfire on places like RC. At first it was suggested (by hobby suppliers) that it wasn't the same grade / type of sand and might be harmful to a reef tank; hobbyists were able to show that it was the exact same sand only put in a different bag... then hobbyists reported that it was suddenly getting harder to find at the local Home Depot; some reported that when they found some they were actually asked by the Home Depot personnel "You're not using this in an aquarium, are you?" and told that Home Depot was asked (by whom?) to not sell to anyone for use in an aquarium, only for sandboxes... eventually Home Depot simply stopped carrying the Southdown brand. A few hobbyists actually went to the Southdown plant in Florida and found out the hobby "industry" pressured Southdown into no longer bagging up the play sand for Home Depot - by threatening Southdown with boycotting their product and only buying from a different supplier of aragonite...
 
It may just be the "cynical ex-NYer" in me but I smell another rat here Angry.
 
I would ask the general question of how, if Dow's process change is now causing elevated bromide levels in all the "generic" bulk chemical product, how are the manufacturers of the more expensive "name brand" hobby Ca supplements able to still get the correct formulation... when most (if not all) of them get their bulk from Dow and similar chemical manufacturers in the first place ? 
 
Hmmmmmmm...
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 8:19am
good points carlos. I have no idea the chemistry behind it. It mush be cheaper for dow to make it this way now. maybe rising energy costs? I am not sure how more expensive aquarium formulas make theirs. :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbeck4x4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 8:33am
I have found a supplier from Mexico (and a local distributor here in Utah) that sells a calcium chloride, they have read their assay sheet to me and there is no bromide/bromine in their product. 

I will follow up, but for now I am going to try it in my tank for a while.

personally I think this entire thing is bunk, they made the change over a year ago and no one has heard anything until last month, smells strange that is for sure, short of having the chemical assay done ourselves there really is no way to know.




Edited by bbeck4x4 - January 07 2008 at 6:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 8:41am
Originally posted by cl2ysta1 cl2ysta1 wrote:

I am not sure how more expensive aquarium formulas make theirs. :(
 
They get a few pallets of the bulk chemicals, mix it in an industrial mixer, weigh it out into little bags or bottles, slap their own label on it and then mark it up 500 - 1000% over the bulk "per pound" cost...
 
Trust me on that.
 
 
 
- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 8:46am

sounds like everything else in the world. Everyone is out to make a quick buck.

 
i just need to figure out how
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 11:57am
I think there is little chance that DOW buckled to Aquarium companies that wanted them to change their product.  DOW sells millions of Tons of thier product.  The several tons they sell to aquarium suppliers could come or go and it wouldn't even dent their sales.
 
I'd more likely believe cost of removing the Bromide/Bromine was the determining factor for them.
 
I personally wonder if the Aquarium suppliers stuff is now high in Bromide/Bromine.  Apparently if they are buying DOW products it would be.  If not, there must be another supplier out there that aquarists could possibly tap themselves in some other form.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 12:32pm
supposedly two part solution stocked up on safe stuff when they heard of the change. enough to last them until they could find an alternative
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaggydoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 12:33pm

From all the reading I have done no one can say whether or not this will even be harmful in our tanks.  Apparently if you are running ozone there is a very legitimate risk but other than that people can't say if there is an issue or not. 

All I know is I have talked to several people who were dosing the high bromide ca and have been for quite some time apparently.  This change did happen a few years ago.  It seems to be a big fuss over what very possibly could be nothing.  Or it could be fatal... I don't know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2008 at 1:09pm
well the problem is that no one knows how quickly bromide depletes in the aquarium. so this shouldnt effect people who are just dosing here and there to boost their calcium. this will however effect people with high calcium demanding sps tanks. because they are constantly adding it, and no one can say how much will build up and how this effects your tank. even though this change happened a few years ago now there is still old safe stuff still for sale b/c it wasnt sold out.
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