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Dying Coral

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    Posted: May 07 2012 at 11:26pm
Ok, first off, I am terrible with names, even family names of corals.  I have a large colony of a green polyp.  Not sure what kind.  A few months back, there was some die off due to parts of the colony growing over and shadowing other parts of the colony.  About 2 weeks ago, I took some dikes and trimmed off as much of the dead as I could.  But, it is starting to decay pretty badly again.  There are also areas where the fleshy part is no longer attached to the calcium skeleton, but is just being held by other areas on the colony that are still attached.  My problem is, the dead portions have grown to live rock.  I know that I could have and should have trimmed off more of the dead, but with the standard dikes that I have, I was fearing that I would break off more than I meant.  

So, my question, how can I correct the issue so that the rest of the coral does not die?  How can I stop the spread of the die off when the skeleton is solidly grown to live rock?  It was once very healthy, and has tripled in size in my tank.  

Any help works.  

Thanks.

Jeremy





Jeremy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McClure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 12:10am
It is okay to leave the dead skeleton and in my experience doing so will not cause more death and its even highly likely that if everything is rectified it will grow back in over the skeleton.

What are your parameters?
How long has your tank been up?
What else is it stocked with?
Do you have a picture of the entire tank?

We will definitely be needing more information to help effectively.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 1:26am
+1  bet its chemical issue

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you're awake! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JayTee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 9:07am
Thanks for the replies.  I always take this site for granted.
 
I work all day but will get more pictures tonight of the entier tank.  Again, I am ashamed to say it, but I dont know the name of any of my corals, with the exception of some purple mushrooms, a green candy cane type coral, a couple polyps, and a hammer head (which is no where near the struggling coral colony).  Husbantry, I did just do a 5% change last night, I have not had time to check alk/hardness in a while, but a month ago it was good.  Lately, when adding the alk, it takes a while to dissipate, which makes me think that it is maxed or not bufferring.  I use magnesium, but dont have a mag text to make sure I am squared away, but when Aquatic Dreams tested last, I was in the range of "ok" on everything, with calcium a little low.  Thats when I started adding the Magnesium.
 
As far as fish, just two fire fish (one of which - my purple one, I think has gone blind.  Is not looking too well, very skinny), a yellow tang who is happy as a lark, and a ERA mandarin who is also happy.  Along with a peppermint shrimp.  I am low on my cleanup crew, I would estimate I have about 8-10 hermits, and maybe half tha many snails left.  Seems like I have to add those things about twice a year.  Not cheap maintenance.
 
Salinity is in check.
 
Ill take some more pictures tonight.  Maybe I can ask for somehelp on what the names of corals are too, so next time I dont sound so uneducated.
 
Thanks everyone.
 
Jeremy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JayTee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 9:08am
Oh, and tank has been setup for 10 years.  Fairly new to corals though.  Bought my first one about 18 months ago.
Jeremy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 11:32am
You have come to the right place for help. Don't take it for granted -- purchase a membership. The help on the WMAS forum is worth much more than a membership.Smile



After Salinity and Temp, Alk and Ca are the very most important parameters. Mg is less important and is usually kept up with 10% monthly water changes. I try to religiously check and maintain Alk and Ca at least every two weeks. Some tanks have so much stony coral that they need daily attention, by either dosing or use of a Calcium Reactor. Dosing to maintain Alk and Ca is easy and can be done with inexpensive household products. See the Reefkeeing Tips linked below in my signature line.

May we see the actual readings you get for Alk, Ca and Mg?

Die off of a stony coral happens most often because of lack of proper Alk and Ca, but can also be due to being downstream of a more powerful coral. From the look of the pics, lighting appears to be okay, but a full tank pic can actually be more helpful than a closeup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JayTee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 9:19pm
Mark, I will have to do that.  In fact, as soon as I get paid, I am buying my membership.

Ok, Water tested at Aquatic Dreams.  My tests are aging, and I dont trust them.  Results as follows:

Alk - 6.8 dKh
Ca - 410 ppm
Mg - 1300

I also had them test for Nitrate (5 ppm), they voluntarily tested Nitrite (5 ppm) and Phospahte (.12ppm) as well.  Higher than I like, especially the Nitrite, but the big shocker was my salinity.  I have always used a hydrometer, wanting to buy a refractometer for years.  Well, I finally bought one tonight.  Salinity was at 1.028.  My hydrometer read it at 1.022, which I calibrated at the store when I bought it.  In other words, my hydrometer read 1.022 with 1.026 water when I bought it.  

So, lowering my salinity as I type this.  Luck has it, I didnt have any fresh RO ready to go, so waiting patiently to make enough to get it down to 1.025 or 1.026.  

I also have a purple firefish.  Always timid of course, but hadnt seen more than his head in weeks.  Well, last night he came out, and is not looking  good.  Very skinny along his spine, but a fat belly.  Seems lethargic, but is swimming upright.  Seems he senses food, but I dont think he can see it.  Hoping it is salinity related also, and that I can get him back to his old self.

Also doing a 20% water change due to the NO2 and NO3.

Thank you for everyones responses.
Jeremy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fishoutawater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 9:39pm
Any chance some salt creep was knocked off the rim of your tank and landed on that piece?
Some day, when I grow up,...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JayTee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2012 at 9:56pm
There is a chance that a very small amount could have fallen on it.  But the amount would have been so small that I have to think it would have dissolved before it got to the coral, even though the coral is placed high in the tank.  Additionally, I have a powerhead right over the coral (has been that way since I put the coral in the tank, and its always been happy).  

I feel like an idiot for saying this, but after reading Marks last post again, I realize the importance that he stressed on temperature.  Either my thermometer is wrong, or my tank is at 60 degrees.  The LFS sold me the wrong heater, and I didnt realize it until I got it home, and havent taken it back because it is rated for 53 gals (my tank and sump is about 60), so I figured at worst, it would have to be on a bit more.  But I have noticed the past few weeks that the heater is almost constantly on (at least every time I look at it), yet my water temp is low.  I cant beleive its 60, but I still think it is low.  All other corals are doing fine.  I will post a picture of the tank in a few minutes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2012 at 10:00am
I also wonder about that power head and how direct the flow is onto the piece that the flesh is peeling away from.  I don't want to say I doubt a chemical or other issue, but by the looks of it the flesh that is peeling away is perfectly healthy but for the fact that its pulled off the skeleton.  I can imagine a situation where high direct flow could do this in which case just move the power head an inch or two UP or redirect it pointing more UP than at the coral in the picture.  Never seen anything EXACTLY like this but is sure looks healthy but for the "small" problem of the flesh coming off the coral.  In my experience if the flesh is coming off due to some unexplained "disease" (RTN whatever) it does NOT look like what your showing us.... just my opinion but I would MOVE that powerhead and let it go a few days and see what happens.  

Its NEVER a bad idea to do a water change and check params etc.  1.028 is HIGH but not so high as to probably cause an issue with coral, fish are going to be working pretty hard to maintain osmotic balance at 1.028 so lower it but do it SLOWLY.  It sounds like you know how to run a tank with 10 years up!!!  WOW 

Seriously, congrats.  You likely have one of the older tanks in continuous use that I am aware of.  That is some dedication!  Seems like SO many people are constantly upgrading, downsizing, changing format etc etc... so cool to hear of one up this long (if thats what you in fact were referring to by the 10 yr comment)

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler -A.E.
57 Gallon RImless build in progress check the thread before if becomes boring and just full of nice pictures of colorful coral!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2012 at 10:01am
60 degrees Shocked Is the tank in a freezing basement with no lights? Even a heater rated for a 50 gal tank when constantly ON might raise the temperature to more than 60. Have you double checked the thermometer? What kind is it? Is the tank next to a heater/AC vent where the air conditioning is blasting it?

"Alk - 6.8 dKh" Here could be a major reason for the coral dieing back but that's not all. It's a combination of several things discussed here. Temperature is one aspect but see below for my other recommendations.

Normal parameters as they appear on the WMAS business card which you can pick up at the club meeting are:
Alk 8-14 dKH
Ca 350-450 ppm(revised up to 500 ppm if using a Ca rich salt mix like Oceanic)
Mg 1200-1400

I would say that raising the Mg caused the Alk to be better utilized, causing it to drop too low.

"Also doing a 20% water change due to the NO2 and NO3." The N levels (Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate) in this tank are well below a point for concern. No need for water changes to correct that supposed problem, but the water change would be helpful in slightly raising Alk and lowering Salinity.

The PO4 is high at 0.12 ppm. It should be 0.02 or lower. This calls for either an increased growth of algae in the Refugium and some Phosphate removal media. Either Activated Alumina or Granulated Ferric Oxide (GFO). May we see a full tank pic and a pic of the sump/Refugium. Assuming there is a Refugium, how quickly does the algae mass double in size?

Actually a salinity of 1.028 is not far enough off to cause any concern. Yes, 1.022 - 1.026 is the best range but a gradual rise in salinity did not stress anything. A slightly quick drop in salinity which I would do in 2 or three RO water additions over the next 24 hours will never be acknowledge by the coral. A hydrometer is as accurate as we need to be with salinity. Periodic cleaning of a Hydrometer with vinegar is very important. Calibration is easy. Using a Refractometer is more fun.


After Temperature, which if it really is 60, I would raise slowly over two days, the next most important thing I can see is to get the Alkalinity up and that's simple.
Do you have Baking Soda in the house? Mix as much Baking Soda as will dissolve in a cup of RO water. Slowly pour half of the cup right at the Return Pump intake. In 4-8 hours pour the remainder and after about 15-30 minutes test the Alkalinity and let us know what it reads.
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Edited by Mark Peterson - May 09 2012 at 10:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2012 at 10:25am
60 would be "LOW" but I would think you would KNOW this.  It would be COLD to your hands- think about swimming in a lake.  Most people find 60 to be so cold as to be basically not swimmable without a wet suit for any length of time... at least I KNOW I don't do 60 without a suit and if I do its to run in .... GASP... and get back into the SUN.  Should be OBVIOUSLY cold- figure this out first!  

Cant say I have any earthly idea about that temp and tropical corals and fish but I would guess its far from their normal environment for the most part.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2012 at 10:59am
I'd grab a cheap glass aquarium thermometer from the pet section in Walmart or one of the pet stores (whatever is closest) and find out what your temp really is. It's good to have a backup anyway. I have a digital for ease of use but I keep a glass one as a backup.
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