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Looking for suggestions

Printed From: Utah Reefs
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Forum Name: General Discussion
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11287
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Topic: Looking for suggestions
Posted By: joellyons
Subject: Looking for suggestions
Date Posted: March 27 2006 at 5:35pm

Sorry this is so long.  I wanted to give as much info as possible.

  • 20 gallon glass tank
  • 5 gallon sump (tupperware tub under the stand) - not a refugium
  • 2 x 55W Power Compacts run 8am - 5pm
  • 15 lbs of live Fiji rock with some nice purple coraline
  • 2 inch sandbed seems to have definite layers (i often vacuum the top but have never disturbed the deeper layers)
  • 5 hermits, 3 emeralds, 5 astreas, 5 nessarius, rose anemone, a few zoos, a few star polyps, fingerleather.
  • a few clumps of calerpa macro algae growing in the main tank, probably not enough
  • specific gravity: 1.025 (Instant Ocean salt)
  • alkalinity: 4.5 meq/L
  • pH: 8.4
  • nitrates: 0 ppm
  • ammonia: 0 ppm
  • phosphates: (waiting for test to get here!)
  • 78 degrees seems to hold steady
  • I change 20% of the water every 2 weeks
  • RO water (have tried from 2 different sources)
  • dose every once in a while with Salifert "All in One"
  • feed frozen brine shrimp (about a pea size a week since i don't currently have any fish).

This tank ran well for almost a year with fish, shrimp, corals.  For the last 6 months, I have had increasing problems.  For one, cyano and green hair algae increased over a couple months and have maintained a steady rug.  I only had a few fish (clown, scooter blenny, leopard wrasse) but they all died within a 2 month time frame.  I also lost a previously healthy frogspawn and xenia (shriveled to nothing).  My zoos, fingerleather, star polyps are puckered up and stopped spreading.  A couple dozen asteas have dropped dead.  The anemone seems to be fairly happy, but i've seen her (yes, her) happier.

All very tragic, but being the cheap and busy person that I am, it all just happened.  I continued to do water changes and changed the SeaChem SeaGel (phosguard+carbon) pellets every week or two for several months, hoping to ride it out.  I took water down to the local fish store and each time they did a few more tests and said things looked good.  They recommended the SeaGel and mexican turbo snails (died within two days).

I've decided to repent and figure out what's going on.  Since I had lost all livestock and the algae was out of control, I decided to start with a complete water change and some manual algae removal.  I mixed up/heated a big tank of RO water.  I used my wife's toothbrush to scrub the hair algae from each rock while in the tank.  I shook the detritis from each rock and moved the clean rock directly into a bucket of prepared water.  Once all rocks were out, I syphoned all the water/algae out of the tank until the water was at sand level.  I then "vacuumed" the top 1/8 inch of sand out tossed it.  I then filled the tank with the new water and moved the rocks back into the tank.  I added a fresh bag of SeaGel.

It looked great for a day or two.  I acclimated/added the livestock mentioned above (snails and crabs).  Half the astreas died within a day.  The nessarius and crabs seem to be doing fine.  I pulled out the dead astreas as soon as i was sure they were dead.  The hair algae and cyano is already coming back 3 days later!  I got some tests (results listed above).  I know that phosphates are the typical culprit and I'll post that when i get the test done, but i'd think a full water change would've ruled that out at least for a while.

Where do i go from here!?  If it's phosphates, what could be causing such a sudden flood of it?  Any other thoughts?



-------------
Joel Lyons
Springville



Replies:
Posted By: Crazy Tarzan
Date Posted: March 27 2006 at 7:52pm
you might be having a spike of amonnia since all the algea is gone and no longer consuming it? Especially with having moved the live rock around.  How recent are your test results?

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Was that in there yesterday? Casper--WY windier than ?

Down to a 20, soon to double or nothing


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 28 2006 at 12:06am
Originally posted by joellyons joellyons wrote:

I know that phosphates are the typical culprit and...

  Any other thoughts?

With all due respect, I'll just say that your knowledge needs to be updated. I cannot write nearly as well as I can talk (and even that is suspect). Feel free to call me at the number below and I will show you how to resolve this problem.



-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: March 28 2006 at 7:19am

I used my wife's toothbrush to scrub the hair algae from each rock while in the tank

Now there's your problem... even if she were dead...

Now let me first say I am very new at this so others can correct me if I'm wrong... but when I hear your first problem was cyno and hair algea I am wondering if you have a flow/filter problem. 

Also, do you use a protein skimmer?

 



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Connie
Tooele


Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: March 28 2006 at 9:00am

Add 2" of oscilate sand. Add a skimmer. Add Macro algea behind the rock work where it will get light(Ill give you some)or better yet turn your sump into a refugeum. Do your next water change with LW from someone elses tank. Get some LS from someone to boost your bio diversity. I doubt that Phosphates are your problem. I dont know about Sea Gel. I would pull it out and add a nice size bag of carbon . Then leave it alone for a while other than water changes, and give it a chance to balance out.

Just my 2 cents. Been there done that. Wish I haden't. 



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http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets
Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC)


Posted By: joellyons
Date Posted: March 28 2006 at 10:48am

Thanks for the ideas all!

The above test results are from a couple days ago (about 5 days after the full water change).

I was hoping frequent water changes would mean i wouldn't need a protein skimmer.  The tank is only 20 gallons and it's in my office at work so quiet and simple is a plus.  But if I definitely need one I could get a small hang on the back or something.  It seems opinions vary quite a bit when it comes to protein skimmers.  Any recommendations for a skimmer for tank of this size?

I appreciate the marcoalgae offer Dion!  I'm not sure when we'd see each other since we live about an hour and a half apart - perhaps at an upcoming meeting?

Does anyone in Utah County have some macro algae they'll be harvesting soon?

I'll probably give Mark P. a call after work and pick his brain.

Thanks again!



-------------
Joel Lyons
Springville


Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: March 28 2006 at 11:11am
I have a Remero Urchin in the sump of my 29. It is a awsome skimmer. They make a Remero Pro that is a hang on. Watch e-bay. I picked up mine for a third of the cost new. They are on there quite often.

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http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets
Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC)


Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: March 28 2006 at 11:20am
It seems opinions vary quite a bit when it comes to protein skimmers.

I'm of the opinion that a skimmer is always beneficial. But, in a small tank with mostly soft coral, frequent water changes may be adequate to maintain water quality.

I have a 20 gallon tank filled with fish and soft corals. I do have a small HOB skimmer, but it mostly doesn't work. As long as I maintain my water change schedule, (5 gallons weekly) the tank looks great and the corals grow like crazy. But, it becomes apparent very quickly when I miss a week (or two). An efficient skimmer may make this situation more forgiving.



Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 28 2006 at 8:27pm

A few minutes on the phone with Joel and my brain was picked clean.  

If there was a small and also effecient skimmer available, it would probably sell very well for nano tanks. But in the absence of that, using Activated Carbon with some kind of floss to filter out particulates is the best option. That's why all the smaller tanks (10 - 40 gallon) I set up use a HOB filter with AC.

Alternatively, I run a CLAM:



-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member



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