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pickling lime

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Topic: pickling lime
Posted By: bugzme
Subject: pickling lime
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 11:52am
what is it used for and how do i use it? i just bought b-ionic for my tanks and it talks about kalkwasser. just trying to learn more!!!!

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Jeff
125 tank
50 gallon sump
T-5 lighting
Rum drinker, Carbon User
I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!



Replies:
Posted By: Flaz
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 1:40pm
It's the same stuff, calcium hydroxide.  Pickling lime will work the same, but it's not as fine a powder as products marketed as "Kalkwasser" from what I've seen.  The finer powder will disolve a bit better but I don't know by how much...

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Aaron

Syracuse, UT


Posted By: sushi
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 1:56pm

  I dont know about calcium reactors, other than I hear they work great.  but i use the b-ionic and its amazing.  The difference that I have seen in a matter of days is huge. 

  In my opinion if your using reef, or coral vital DNA, and b-ionic,  you will be set.   Maybe some iodine.  but vital, and b-ionic


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They all talk fast, but they all think slow.


Posted By: jglover
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 2:23pm
Pickeling lime is chemicaly the same as kalkwasser which I think is german for calcium water you can drip it in or have a reactor.  I know of one person that uses an IV bag to have it drip in.  It stabalizes calcium it is mostly used for evaporation top off.  I even think you can get lime at walmart.  It just isn't designed for aquariums so it is cheaper then kalk.  Has anyone seen any downsides between using lime and kalk?


Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 2:57pm
what is reef-coral vital dna?

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Jeff
125 tank
50 gallon sump
T-5 lighting
Rum drinker, Carbon User
I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!


Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 3:30pm

Jeff- a semi popular product manufactured by Marc Weiss and available in most stores.

Adam



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Come to a meeting, they�re fun!


Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 3:32pm
what is it for and what will it do for my corals?

-------------
Jeff
125 tank
50 gallon sump
T-5 lighting
Rum drinker, Carbon User
I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!


Posted By: Weimers
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 3:57pm

I looked for pickling lime in several stores (trying to kill aptasia) and didn't find it at WalMart or Smiths or Fred Myer.  It was in stock at the local Harmon's.  In the isle with Mason Jars and things for canning.

I can't wait for Jon Finch to see this thread.  He's gonna post something at least 5 paragraphs long!  (Just kidding, Jon!) 

One thing I think Jon would mention is that you want a balance with your calcium & your alkalinity.  So you might want to keep that in mind before you dump in a ton of kalkwasser.  Your alkalinity would crash, your corals would get sad, and the calcium present in your tank would not be use-able calcium (because the alkalinity is too low).  Jon explains this really well.



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Renee and Damon Weimer
Tankless in Hawaii


Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 4:10pm
i can't wait for jon's response either, i hope he writes 6 paragraphs so i can understand it.

-------------
Jeff
125 tank
50 gallon sump
T-5 lighting
Rum drinker, Carbon User
I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!


Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 4:20pm

what is it used for and how do i use it?

It's mixed with water and you soak cucumbers in it before pickling them.  It keep the pickles crisp...



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Jon

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing...



Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 4:24pm
PLEAZZZZZ JON I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO LEARN

-------------
Jeff
125 tank
50 gallon sump
T-5 lighting
Rum drinker, Carbon User
I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!!


Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 4:41pm

Jeff,  I've got to run (my answers are always too long and I don't have time )  and I'll be away most of the evening, but I'll answer and write up what ever isn't covered by eveyone that replies to this...

Come on everyone, help Jeff out.

gotta run, I'll check back later tonight...



-------------
Jon

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing...



Posted By: Suzy
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 5:26pm
Let me try!

Pickling lime IS kalkwasser! It's a way to add both alkalinity and
calcium. It can drive your pH up, so it must be dripped slowly, and
the pH monitored.
I used to mix up a gallon, shake it up really well, and then let it
settle for a bit. The solution that is left is super saturated, and can be
dripped. Then, I'd add some more RO water to the gallon jug, shake
it up again and keep using it 'till I thought it was full of crud (I think
it binds to crud that wasn't removed in your RO process)

I eventually thought this was a pia way to get buffer and ca++. Now,
I just add a little Kent bicarb and turbo calcium once in a while.

I never could figure out what the coral vital was. I tried! And the
Black powder stuff. I won't use it again 'till I know what it is....


So, how close did I come to getting it right?


Posted By: Will Spencer
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 9:26pm

I swear there was a thread on this about a month ago (maybe longer) on which Jon had a 6 paragraph answer.  Search for Pickling Lime and you'll probably find it. 

I'm not sure if Jon's 6 paragraph answer was something most of us could understand, but it may have been.



Posted By: Corusco
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 10:23pm
There was another thread on this about a month ago, in which I linked up to the thread where Jon and Adam go off on a chemistry tirade...VERY educational.  You can also look on wetwebmedia.com for a good writeup on Ca/Alkalinity.

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Justin in Orem

55 larval Semi-Reef
140 Reef in progress


Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 10:24pm

From a post by Mark:

I'll give it a go, and Jon can straighten me out.

Calcium (Ca) is necessary for coral, clams, fish bones, feather duster, coralline algae and halimeda growth.

Hydroxide (OH) makes sure the Calcium can be assimilated by organic life forms.

Kalkwasser provides both. It is also very caustic (base not acid) having a pH of something around 30 in a solution, so it must NOT be added quickly NOR in large quantities.

Most people drip the kalkwasser solution slowly at night to replace evaporated water. Nightime is best because that is when tankwater pH tends to be lower, especially in older tanks and those without RDP Refugia.

I've found that it's safe to add kalkwasser equal to 5% of total system volume over the course of a couple hours. Any faster than this compromises tank health by hyper-raising pH.

Now, How to mix it.

Add a couple tablespoons of Lime to a gallon of purified water. Stir it and let it sit for a day. Pour off the top clear liquid into the dispensing container. This can be a bucket which gravity feeds (syphon) an IV dripper or an airline hose with a clothespin. Or it can be a fancy dosing pump. Be sure the drops don't fall into tankwater current which immediately passes by a coral or other animal. Place the drip line somewhere that gives the drops a chance to mix with tank water a little before hitting the living stuff.

Going back to the mixing container with the leftover lime, you will notice that the Lime lost it's pure white color. This is because some of the Calcium bonded with impurities in the water and dropped out of solution. Refill this container of day old Lime, with new purified water. Use this water the second night but then for the third night discard the dirty residue and restart with clean white Lime.

Lime can actually purify tap water. One-half tablespoon of Lime to a gallon of tapwater can make it good but not great for reef aquariums. I've done this with no problems. Of course I also have been known to grow a great reef topped off with what JFinch called "liquid rock" (North Salt Lake tap water straight up)

From a post by me:

I agree with Mark.

Maybe a bit more explaination on the hydroxide issue.  Calcifying coral and algaes form either aragonite or calcite.  Both are just different crystal structures of calcium carbonate, CaCO3 (CaCO3 is also refered to as limestone).  CaCO3 consists of two ions or molecules that connect together; calcium, Ca and carbonate, CO3.  It takes one calcium molecule to react with one carbonate molecule to form one aragonite molecule.  So, how does hydroxide, OH- come into play?  Here's what happens in your reef tank:

OH + CO2 = HCO3 (1st reaction)

OH + HCO3 = H2O + CO3 (2nd reaction)

Notice it took two OH molecules (and one CO2 molecule) to make one CO3 molecule.  CO3, HCO3 and OH are also refered to as alkalinity.  So kalkwasser provides one molecule of CO3 for every molecule of Ca... balanced as far as calcification is concerned.  It also consumes one molecule of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the process.  CO2 is what causes our tanks to have a low pH.  When that CO2 is reacted away, it has a pH increasing effect.

How much kalkwasser you can add to your tank will be dictated by your evaporation rate and pH.  It's about the cheapest method there is of maintaining calcium and alkalinity, but it is just about the most dangerous for new reefers to get the hang of.  So use with caution.

Hope this helps...



-------------
Jon

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing...



Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: September 27 2004 at 10:29pm

Although, I still like my cucumber soaking line too .

Also, I've heard through the grapevine that Balls brand pickling lime has been discontinued... Looks like Mrs. Swages is the only cheap source now.



-------------
Jon

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing...



Posted By: Transam
Date Posted: September 29 2004 at 2:14pm
Balls has been discontinued but another option is quicklime from Missippi Lime Co. It is calcium oxide instead of hydroxide. I know people that use this with great success. I heard that Balls was discontiued so I bought out our local Harmons so I will be good for a while. But I found a local distibutor for the Miss. quicklime and I am going to buy a bag and try it. I drip pickling lime at night for about 4 years and have great results. 2 tsp per gal and about 100 ml of white vinegar in a five gallon container and drip with an IV drip. Never had a problem.

T/A


Posted By: pmpt
Date Posted: September 29 2004 at 2:56pm
Where can you get an IV dripper?


Posted By: Suzy
Date Posted: September 29 2004 at 3:46pm

IV dripper get clogged so quickly!

 What if you used flexible tubing piped into a milk jug, controlled with one of those little plasic gang valve things?

 Or just added turbo calcium and buffer once a week?

 



Posted By: airteresa
Date Posted: September 29 2004 at 9:14pm

Hi Suzy,

I actually spent 97 cents at Walmart and purchased one of those 2 gallon water dispensers that you put in your fridge to dispense cold water, they come with a valve on them and a short stem.

I simply sat the dispenser on top of my tank leaning it backwards slightly resting against my wall.

I worked, but still clogged.  However, cleaning it once a week or so was plenty.  I only dosed Kalk at night, starting when my lights turned off and stopping when the actinics turned on.

It's so cheap, I didn't lose anything trying it out.  I liked using gravity too, that made it easy.

Aaron



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Aaron G. Taylor

Richmond, (Cache Valley) Utah


You can't swim with the big fish if you spawn like a guppy!


Posted By: airteresa
Date Posted: September 29 2004 at 9:23pm

I am not currently using the dispensert, because I don't have stony corals, and my calcium doesn't get used up very fast, so I don't need to add much calcium to my tank to keep it within the desired range.  In fact my calcium is usually 5-600. I mostly add buffer or reef builder by SeaChem.

However, if I needed to add more calcium to maintain levels, I would use it regularly.  And when my calcium does get low I do pull it out.

I can say that when I started dosing Kalk I did see a visual slowing in the growth of my mermaid hair. I top off with tap water that contains nitrates and phosphates and the Kalk helped dissipate them so that the mermaid hair grew slower.

My mermaid hair attributed to PH swings at night, so I dosed Kalk to balance the PH swing and it worked.

However, I need to get a lower dosage to avoid increasing calcium levels in my soft coral reef tank (75 gallon).

Whew...I can ramble



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Aaron G. Taylor

Richmond, (Cache Valley) Utah


You can't swim with the big fish if you spawn like a guppy!


Posted By: Transam
Date Posted: September 29 2004 at 10:20pm
I have a friend that is a nurse and she hooked me up with the IV. I have not had any issues with clogging but I clean it out every week. Works just fine and real cheap.

T/A


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: September 30 2004 at 10:28am

Originally posted by Transam Transam wrote:

I have a friend that is a nurse and she hooked me up with the IV. I have not had any issues with clogging but I clean it out every week. Works just fine and real cheap.

T/A

I use an IV bag as well, my biggest problem with it is the 1 liter bag is too small.  If I remember to refill it every day it works great.



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Jared Neilsen
Lehi, Utah


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 30 2004 at 11:49am
Rather than slowly dripping KW with an IV bag, you can use that same water dispenser that Airteresa mentioned above as an automatic topoff "glug jug" to dispense whatever concentration of KW your tank needs. And no cleaning needed!
Interested?

-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: airteresa
Date Posted: September 30 2004 at 12:03pm

I am, please tell more.  I assume that by extending the spout of the glug jug to the water surface, the water doesn't flow, but as soon as the water surface drops below the spout, oxygen enters the glug and water releases until the water level is back where it's supposed to be?

Is that what you are thinking Mark?

thanks for the suggestion

Aaron



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Aaron G. Taylor

Richmond, (Cache Valley) Utah


You can't swim with the big fish if you spawn like a guppy!


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 30 2004 at 12:38pm
Exactly. And there are ways to reduce the noise of the glugging sound, too.

If this adds too much KW, just put less of the dry powder in the water, and be sure to make up KW in a separate container and only pour the clear liquid into the glug jug.

-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: September 30 2004 at 1:04pm

I never clean the IV bag, I just use a syringe connected to a ball valve to force through anything that gets stuck in the sediment filter. It literally only takes 10 seconds and I only have to do it once a week or so.

I like the kalk glug glug jug idea, I would just be worried about adding too much kalk at once or not adding enough if I had to use less powder.



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Jared Neilsen
Lehi, Utah


Posted By: Suzy
Date Posted: September 30 2004 at 1:59pm
TransAm! Whose your friend? And, where does she work?



Posted By: Transam
Date Posted: September 30 2004 at 5:59pm
Her name is Sami she works in Ogden somewhere. Her husband is my boss. I don't use an IV bag I have a 5 gal water container that I epoxied a plastic tube into then fixed the IV drip to the tube I glued into the container. The tube is a 1/2 inch above the bottom so not to collect the left over kalk paste. but optimize the amount of water i get out of the jug. It has worked well for a few years now.

T/A



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