Pump Advice Needed
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: Equipment
Forum Description: This is the place to ask question about reef equipment.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44868
Printed Date: July 25 2026 at 8:24pm
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Topic: Pump Advice Needed
Posted By: vadryn
Subject: Pump Advice Needed
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 4:02am
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On a larger tank (180g+) would you recommend an external or submerged return pump based on:
Longevitiy/Reliability
Noise
Efficiency
Cost
Ease of Install/Care/Maintenance
Is one design clearly better than the other in these categories?? Once I know whether to shop internal or external I can start narrowing down on models.
Thanks in advance.
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Replies:
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 8:39am
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Neither one is "better" though I personally would lean to the submersible pump for lower cost and ease of install/maintenance. It's really all about the sump/Refugium. Will it be inside or outside of the stand? How large of a sump/Refugium? Is the stand door large or small? Can you make it larger? What material will the sump/Refugium be made of? Again, cost efficiency makes a plastic tub with submersible pump an easy choice, but if seeing all the cool stuff in the Refugium is important to you, a glass or acrylic tank is ideal. Keep head room in mind when choosing a sump tank. Pictured below is one of my old Refugiums made of a 40 gal glass breeder tank serving a standard 120 gal display. Also realize that proper water flow inside the 180 gal reef cannot be effectively provided by any one "return pump. It took a while for the hobby to recognize but it's more efficient and can be more effective to use a reasonably sized return pump to move water through the sump/Skimmer/RDP Refugium filtration process, placing powerheads inside the tank to move the water around. In my opinion, 500 gph(at 4-5' of head) running through a 20-50 gal Refugium is plenty of flow. Inside the tank, two good stream powerheads delivering 2-4000 gph from the lower back corners pointing diagonally up to roil the surface water allows all kinds of organisms to thrive. The submersible return pump is a simple Rio 2500. Closed Loop circulation is provided by a Little Giant 1200 gph external pump hanging on springs to reduce vibration noise. (this was years before the development of efficient stream powerheads)  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: vadryn
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 9:25am
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My stand isn't built yet, so it's providing no restrictions whatsoever.
I want a large -> huge sump + refugium. I will try to add 40% - 50% more water to the system utilizing the sump/refugium.
I intend to plumb water to an external refugium so I can grow Mangrove as a houseplant using tank water. I would have that fed directly from the tank, returning under the tank to the sump and then pumped up to the display.
My preference is to have a visible see-through sump.
Maybe my question should have been, which type of pump is better for each of these functions:
Longevitiy/Reliability (external or submersible)
Noise - Quiet (external or submersible)
Efficiency @ 7' of head - (external or submersible)
Cost (external or submersible)
Ease of Install/Care/Maintenance (external or submersible) |
Posted By: tcfab
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 9:41am
What is your total head going to be? If you need an external I might have a Reeflo Dart for sale ------------- Need custom acrylic work? give me a call, www.Elite-Aquatics.net (801)645-6386 |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 11:16am
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These are purely my opinions based on my experience both in the hobby and in professional tank maintenance:
Longevitiy/Reliability (external or submersible) SAME Noise - Quiet (external or submersible) SUBMERSIBLE
Efficiency @ 7' of head - (external or submersible) DEPENDS on brand/model of pump
Cost (external or submersible) SUBMERSIBLE
Ease of Install/Care/Maintenance (external or submersible) SAME but with external comes 3+ times more connections and thus more points where leaks can develop. Again, if you are looking at filtration efficiency the amount of water going through a sump/Refugium, including Mangroves is going to be 1/4 to 1/3 of the amount that needs to spin around inside the tank. As I said, it has taken a long time for the hobby to recognize this and the Stream Powerheads needed to be developed in order for the hobby to finally reach this point. Unfortunately, what you will see in most setups is still the one large return pump concept because it has worked for years. Mangroves don't do well in our dry Utah air and they aren't really that interesting of a tree, but when placed inside of the stand where humidity is 80-90% they flourish. This is a pic early on. A year later I had to continually prune these back because they had become bushy trees  See how perfect the leaves are? in low humidity, they get brown edges and don't look so good.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 11:28am
BTW to put as much as 90 gals of water in the Refugium inside the stand and still have room to work with it, is doable if the entire bottom of the stand is used 72"x24"x12"/230 = 90 gallons. In that case the submersible sump makes sense and the Mangroves could be grown in the Refugium. I was always opening the doors and showing off the Mangroves to hobbyists. Nobody else appreciated it much.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 2:14pm
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It really is just a personal preference for most people. Externals area little easier to maintain imo, but are noisier. Cost depends. I've seen more external pumps on larger builds than submersibles. ------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |