Hippo Tang =(
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Topic: Hippo Tang =(
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Subject: Hippo Tang =(
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 7:56pm
I was given this hippo tang from a friend and the poor thing looks horrible, chunks of its skin are missing, it was kept in a 55 gallon with a clown, wrasse and a blenny, i have him in a 20 gallon just temporarily till he is better, what do you think could be wrong and what should i do? ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Replies:
Posted By: SGH360
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 7:58pm
| that thing is having some serious fungus problem. wish i knew what type. look like fin rot and anonther |
Posted By: Jeremyw
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 10:20pm
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It kinda looks like HLLE. It needs to be in a big tank! Oh big is he? They can stress really easy! is he eating? What is he eating? ------------- Next meeting: |
Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 10:28pm
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I agree with Jeremy. He needs to be put into a big tank. Since he is out you might be able to treat if it is a fungus but I'm not an expert by any means on fish diseases. I think that getting him comfortable in a bigger tank with plenty to eat might be a better way to go. I'd wait for Adam or Mark to chime in though. ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: kellerexpress
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 11:00pm
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man that thing looks rough! ------------- IM 30L Kessil A160we x2 |
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 11:22pm
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I did a little research and im thinking it is HLLE, he is probably 5-6 inches and he is eating pretty well i have been giving him flake, brine, and algae. ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 11:25pm
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soak the food in garlic. Lot's of algae. I saw a tang like that once at AD that they just bought off a guy and they said that he never fed it much and when he did he never fed it algae and that caused a lot of probs.
------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 11:27pm
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I was told to soak the food in a vitamin supplement, what do you guys think? or should i use garlic? or both? ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: SGH360
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 11:35pm
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here is a guide to most of the known disease hope this helps
http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html - http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 11:41pm
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I would feed it only algae, Nori and lettuce. That will give it all the vitamins it needs. At that size, it will do better if you can get it into at least a 75 gal tank, especially one with a good growth of Macroalgae to graze on. A little meaty food once in a while, marinated in Garlic Oil couldn't hurt.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 11:55pm
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Ok, Thanks for all the help guys ill keep you updated. ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: ptronsp
Date Posted: November 28 2010 at 1:02am
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Oh that poor thing.. I hope you can nurse him back.
Pam
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Posted By: Fish Mama
Date Posted: November 28 2010 at 12:12pm
| I've had tangs similar to this one. Soak a stem of broccoli in vitamins and feed on a clip. Broccoli is very high in vitamins and will make a difference with the HLLE. |
Posted By: Jeremyw
Date Posted: November 28 2010 at 12:20pm
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Ok so if he really is that big I would agree with everyone one else! Get him into a bigger tank at lest 75 gallons if not bigger! possibly even 125 +! He needs a lot of swimming room to be happy!
KEEP KEEP KEEP feeding the algae/nori/broccoli! And lots of it! He should have some so he can munch on it consistently! ------------- Next meeting: |
Posted By: SGH360
Date Posted: November 28 2010 at 2:39pm
| If you dont have a bigget QT tank then remove all of the live rock so it can swim better |
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: November 28 2010 at 2:49pm
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It likes to hang behind the rocks, but he is not eating the algae i have been putting in? ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: SGH360
Date Posted: November 28 2010 at 3:22pm
| have you putting it in a clip? they are pretty shy, have you tried soaking in it garlic oil? what type of algae have you been putting? |
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: November 28 2010 at 3:40pm
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I am putting it on a clip, it is just green marine algae, and i need to go get some garlic. ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: Haley'sfish
Date Posted: November 28 2010 at 9:31pm
| I have never had luck with clips, I know others have, but try wrapping the nori on a piece of rubble rock then strap it down with a rubber band. Also my fish wouldn't eat the marine algae either so I bought it nori sheets from the grocery store and it did the trick so maybe that would work too I don't know. Good luck. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 8:13am
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Here is what I meant when I used these terms: Algae - live soft algae growing on the surfaces of the rock and live macroalgae. Caulerpa is the most common Macroalgae to feed to Tangs because of how easy and fast it grows in reef aquriums. There are people here on this MB that will give you Caulerpa for free as they periodically harvest it from their Refugiums Nori - dried marine algae sheets. Commonly used to wrap sushi Lettuce - dark green leafy lettuce such as Romaine lettuce from the grocery store. These three forms of algae will give the Tang all that it needs in the way of vitamins. There is no need to supplement. Patience is the key to feeding new forms of algae. The fish may be accustomed to eating only flake and frozen meaty foods. This is why it is in bad health. Think of cattle. They cannot live long on potato chips and steak. Their bodies are built to eat grasses and grains. Feed less and less of flake/pellet and frozen meaty foods while continuously providing fresh algae type foods and the Tang will eventually switch back to the correct food for it's best health. Are you aware of how to use Garlic Oil? The instruction is this link, also found in the "Reefkeeping Tips" below: Secrets of adding new fish, fish training and the miracle of Garlic Oil: http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34014 - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34014 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 8:20am
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Oh and I would not remove the rock from that small aquarium. That would make things worse. The Tang would die without places to hide.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 10:58am
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Thats what i was thinking because he is really shy and he spends most of his time behind the rocks. ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 5:33pm
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Sorry guys, but I am going to have to disagree with some of the more conventional feeding suggestions made here.
Hippo Tangs (aka Regal Tangs) are much more omnivorous than most other Tangs that we keep in our aquariums. That means they just don't need only algaes and other plant- based nutrition; they need protein - based planktonic foods as well.
I would actually limit the plant material to just a sheet of nori and maybe some macroalgae to nibble on. Plant-based foods have a lot of bulk, but liitle caloric content and almost no protein or fat. This guy needs some serious nutrition to combat that tail rot and HLLE, and to pack on a little weight.
I would feed heavily with vitamin enriched protein foods like Bloodworms, HUFA brine, mysis, glassworms or blackworms (if you can find them). Even beefheart would be OK. Your local LFS should carry most (or all) of these. Stay away from conventional brine shrimp, as they are not very nutritionally dense. Flake is OK once in a while, but not a staple to be fed every day.
Soak your frozen foods with a couple of drops of Selcon before feeding. Feed at least twice daily; more often if you can manage it - and as much as the fish can eat in 15 minutes. Overfeeding in this case is OK; the fish will need the extra food energy to fight of the diseases and to grow back the affected fin areas. Just remove any uneaten food so that it doesn't pollute the tank water. And change out at least 10% of the water once every week.
Just leave the nori / macro in there in case the fish wants a snack - but not as the main course.
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 5:54pm
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Ok i am going to do whats best for the fish and give him to someone with a larger tank, and someone with more knowledge about how to help this poor fish. ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 8:58pm
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the fish is swimming around and eating it just needs a bigger tank, anyone? ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: jmtreml
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 9:24pm
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I just have a problem with my hippo tang. It had ich and I started to feed garlic that I bought from aquatic dream, and within about 3-4 days it is about 80% better. I think I am going to start feeding garlic everyday just to boost my fish's immune systems. I also did about a 5 gallon water change once a day in my 90gallon tank. It looks like everything in my tanks seems to be doing really well now. ------------- 34 Gallon Red Sea Max 29 gallon Bio cube |
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 9:35pm
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ya, garlic does do wonders i need to go get some more. ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 12:33am
This is a common and widespread misconception about plant foods - that they contain little protein. I agree that Blue Tangs eat a varied diet, but mostly algae. In this case the Tang has most likely been receiving almost no plant foods. That deficiency is why it is so sickly. Humans, like Blue Tangs are not carnivores. Blue Tangs, like humans are designed for a mostly herbivorous diet. Unfortunately, we humans have been severely misinformed about the need for animal protein in our diet. Plants and algae contain enormous amounts of protein, carbohydrates and just enough oils. Additionally, proteins and oils from plants are in a more usable form. We have been lied to that we need to eat animal foods to get our protein. The truth is that we can get protein the same way as cattle. And how do cattle get their protein?  That's right.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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BobC63 wrote:Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 1:12am
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Sorry Mark, I respectfully disagree on 3 points.
1) There is a large difference in the amount of nutrients (specifically caloric content, amino acids, saturated fats and most 'B' vitamins) between a given amount (by weight) of algae vs. animal - based proteins such as those I mentioned.
A fish in this condition needs to maximize the available food energy to help its body repair itself. The optimal foods will have the greatest gross amount of calories and protein in the smallest quantities of food. On these aspects animal-based protein wins hands down.
2) In my experience the Hippo is one of the least dependent on algaes for diet of all the Tangs we commonly keep in our tanks. The Hippo I have now I got from Asad (seti007) maybe 2.5 years ago; he had it in his sump for awhile and it had become quite thin and a bit haggard looking from being banished to the sump... even had the beginning of HLLE...and was around 4.5 inches long.
Today this fish is closer to 6 - 7 inches long and is as fat as can be. No signs of any HLLE or even ribs
 . I put up a sheet of Nori, or toss in some chaeto and my Desjardini, Naso and Yellow Tangs go nuts over the algae - while the Hippo cruises the tank waiting for his beloved bloodworms, which he sucks up like spaghetti... along with mysis, brine, reef plankton and even small krill.Will he pick at the Nori? Yes, if there is no other food available. But he totally ignores chaeto and caulerpa and does not pick at the live rock or at the glass scraping off algae like the other 3 Tangs all do. He cruises the mid-water level in the tank and loves to pick food right out of the water column. Not much of a "browser" like my other Tangs.
The last Hippo I had - maybe 10 years prior - was pretty much the same.
3) And lastly - yes, cattle do get their protein solely from plants. But they also have a vastly different digestive system from humans (how many stomachs do they have, 2? 3?) and I don't think we humans could chew our "cud" even if we wanted to.
  ------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 1:35am
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If you want to give the best food, without vitamins added, for a blue tang, IMO it would be cyclopes (gives to Bob's point) and nori (gives to Mark's point). Many tangs would not feed well on cyclops because they are so small and floating around in the water. But I bet a lot of blue tangs like it. Also, the best flake food would be spirulina flakes. JMO. Mix it up though, no matter what, it's good to give a varied diet.
If it doesn't take to nori, you might want to try putting pieces of nori in multiple places in the tank.
Main problem, it's been said before, is swimming room.
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 11:53am
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Good points on all accounts.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 11:11pm
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Tang is in a bigger tank, thanks for all the good help. ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 9:34am
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BTW, we may not have several stomachs and chew cud, but we have teeth mostly designed to chew plant matter and our intestinal tract is long like an herbivore not short like a carnivore. The idea that "bulk" and proper nutrients can only be gained by eating animal products is an unfortunate misconception, promulgated by the animal industry by their beef and dairy councils. For the past 4 years I have tested the idea of eating a mainly plant based diet and have found myself healthier, with more energy and less sickness. In the first two months of eating this way, I could actually feel the cholesterol clearing from my blood vessels. Then I had a significant experience where, despite a reduction in physical exercise during those two months, I ran further and was less winded than ever before. Since that first experience, I have studied and found ample evidence that a plant based diet has merit. Here is a website where we can learn more about the decline in health caused by modern eating habits and how disease may actually be kicked simply by changing what we eat: http://www.ravediet.com - http://www.ravediet.com ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 10:07am
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Not to argue with anything that has been said, but this may be of interest. 33% of all plant matter is cellulose, which is indigestible to humans. However cows, horses, etc have an enzyme, bacteria, etc that allows them to digest cellulose (see http://science.jrank.org/pages/1335/Cellulose-Cellulose-digestion.html - http://science.jrank.org/pages/1335/Cellulose-Cellulose-digestion.html ). |
Posted By: Summertop
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 10:17am
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OK, I rarely weigh in on topics like this...but this time, I'm going to...The key to Health is BALANCE. Doesn't matter whether you are a fish, cow, or person. Simply changing what you eat to more closely match your dietary requirements won't do it. By "Balance", I mean life style...Diet, Recreation, Exercise, Mental stimulation, etc... From the Hippo point of view: Food alone won't make him healthy, he needs a healthy diet, places to graze, rocks to hide in, open swimming room, etc. I applaud Reefboy (and others) for trying to find him a better home, in addition to a better diet. People are the same. Simply eating healthy won't cut it. We need exercise, recreation, mental stimuli, etc. Its been my experience, that when people like Mark, state they are feeling much better...More aspects in their life are in "balance", not just what they eat. Am I right Mark? I try to maintain this philosophy in my aquariums. I try to provide more than just good food. I try to provide a good, overall, environment as well. ------------- =========== Shawn Winterbottom |
Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 10:51am
Ahhh you beat me to it. Actually there isn't a lot of protein in plant matter. There are specific plants that do contain good amounts of protein like beans but green leafy veggies have negligible amounts of proteins that are available to humans. As stated, we're actually not well suited for digesting plant matter, we don't have the ability to break it down very well. This is why vegans and vegetarians have to supplement their diet with protein. Shawn is right in that balance is really the key to diet and well being. As humans, the reason we need to eat a lot more veggies and fruits is because only with large quantities will we get the nutrients we need. We don't need large amount of fats and meats because we digest them easier and therefore don't need as much for nutrient needs. Exercise, mental stimulation, etc are also key. I'm glad to hear this tang is in a bigger home and getting the care it needs. I again agree with Shawn that providing the absolute best environment for your critters is the key to a healthy tank. ------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |
Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 3:15pm
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The answer to all this: feed yourself and your tang a protein plant- SPINACH!! jk...maybe they would eat it
btw the suggestion that we don't digest fruits and plants well is beyond me....we don't eat hay or grass.....typical plant-based food sources we actually eat are full of fiber and are digested very well....fish on the other hand, I wouldn't have a clue....
all this about what is easy to digest and what isn't is nonsense.....we don't need to eat of ton of veggies or fruits to obtain neccessary nutrients/vitamins....it is quite simple, nobody wants to eat fruit and veggies... because steak, fat, candy, chocolate just tastes better....eat just a couple servings of the healthy stuff w/ a vitamin supplement a day would be plenty.....
this is how I would work with the fish....feed a varied diet, both protein and veggie base, with added vitamins (selcon) added to the food. Look for quality foods that are already enriched (vit C etc.)
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Posted By: Jake Pehrson
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 3:29pm
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I would have to agree with Bob and most books and reference materials agree that Hippo tangs primarily feed on zooplankton, rarely on algae. My Hippo tangs (I have 2 that I raised from 1/2" long) eat only "meats". Enriched brine, mysis shrimp, silver side meat, shrimp meat (tiger), cut up fish, etc. I do offer Nori and other algaes, but the Hippo do not eat it (the other tangs love it). My guess is they have Hippo tangs in their own genus because they are quite different from other tangs. The lack of algae is not the problem in my opinion. Feed him a varied diet. I would guess the problem has to do with water quality (high nitrates if I was to guess). ------------- Jake Pehrson Murray http://coralplanet.com" rel="nofollow - coralplanet.com http://utahbeeranch.com" rel="nofollow - :) |
Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 5:04pm
Sorry, but you're wrong in so many ways. Since it's completely OT from the OP I will leave it at that, but PM me or start a topic in the Off-topic section if you want to learn about proper nutrition. ------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 10:39am
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The really sad thing about the Standard American Diet (SAD) is that we have all been led astray by the greed and marketing of animal food companies. One of the big lies is how much animal protein they say we need to consume in order to stay healthy. The only way to get cholesteral is to eat animals. The best way to kick cancer, heart disease and many modern day illnesses is to eat just plant foods. The chemicals and modified ingredients that are used in processed foods are actually the cause of some of today's health problems. Plant foods have practically everything that humans need to grow and be healthy. They do have lots of proteins, just not animal proteins. The fiber in plants enables good health. Eskimos do not eat a lot of plant foods. Cold environments make animal proteins more appropriate. When I started eating the total plant foods that my wife prepared, I actually had less exercise because I also changed jobs at that time. I know it was the change in what I ate that had the effect on my health and energy level. FYI, I do not take any vitamin supplements, but I do have a bite of animal food from time to time. I have found that gives me what I need to feel healthy. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 11:10am
Since we are way off anyway . . . I agree with you. I used to think like Bur01014 did. Then I started to eat more veggies and fruits. I've never been a big junk food person and I've always been fit. This summer I started to road bike again after a two year hiatus and decided that I needed to eat more fruits and veggies. It was hard to start since I never really liked them and I hated salads. After two months though I started to CRAVE salads and fruits. Its to the point now where I eat a salad and fruit almost daily . . . and not because I'm forcing myself to but because it makes me feel better and I crave them. I had not idea what my body was missing till I started to give it what i needed. I used to just take a multivitamin and thought that was good enough . . it most definitely is not. ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 11:32am
That digestion stuff mentioned is still way off. Wasn't saying there is a magic pill (vitamin) that will solve all your problems. I did say eat a few fruits and veggie servings a day, enjoy some unhealthy food here and there (denying yourself this can cause great problems in the end, overindulgence), and take a daily vitamin for any nutrients you may not be getting. For the typical individual, eating tons of fruits and veggies daily is quite difficult and expensive. Why I suggest my method as being plenty is that in this day and age, many "basic" foods are now enriched with the neccessary vitamins and nutrients we need. (ex. basic piece of bread)
I find no need to learn more at this time, I think my Master's and now Doctorate in the subject warrants enough learning at the moment for myself, but you can pm me back and forth if you like as I think we have overtaken this original thread.... |
Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 11:33am
I think there is validity in this......once you start eating fruits, your craving for "unhealthy" foods will be reduced. This occurs in 2 ways. First, your less hungry. Second, fruits contain ( in many cases) a great deal of sugar, although "natural" sugars, resulting in more stable blood sugar levels=less desire for junk food, and less desire to over-indulge.
Getting on the bike again (exercise) also releases endorphins and will reduce your cravings for unhealthy foods. Glad you are now craving salads and fruits. You have turned a heavy page, however, lifestyle behavioral changes are the hardest to keep....moderation, food choice, and control....very easy to understand, quite difficult to follow on a long-term basis. |
Posted By: smacky
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 12:25pm
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My experience is a bit different. During the summer I ride around 250 miles a week and during that time I neet to eat nearly 6000 calories a day. I could not do that eating salad and fruit. I do eat healthy food, but the only way to get that much food energy and not spend every second of the day eating, I need fair amounts of fat, amounts I can only get from animals. |
Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 12:34pm
Oh don't get me wrong. I ride about 150 miles a week and I do eat like a pig. I just eat more Salads and fruit then I used to. I still love me some animal. If I ate only veggies I think I'd die. I certainly wouldn't be able to go out on a ride longer than 15 miles. ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: Jake Pehrson
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 12:42pm
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Please have your non-fish related diet discussions in the off topic forum.
I made a topic specifically for these.
http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45090 - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45090 ------------- Jake Pehrson Murray http://coralplanet.com" rel="nofollow - coralplanet.com http://utahbeeranch.com" rel="nofollow - :) |
Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 1:07pm
On the internet debate scale the current one only reached 1.5 out of a 10. Hardly any insults were thrown! We have made progress! Back on topic - Who ended up with this fish? And how is it doing? ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 2:21pm
I too hope it goes to a good home. I would take it if I had a large enough tank. You know the problem with this MB anymore is there isn't enough darma. I hear that Jake loves drama. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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