cloudy water
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Help
Forum Name: EMERGENCY FORUM
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51296
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Topic: cloudy water
Posted By: tammy
Subject: cloudy water
Date Posted: September 11 2011 at 7:57am
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I have a 120 gal, tank it has been up and running since march of this year. All has been well until yesterday. When I got home from work the water was really cloudy. I did all of my tests and everthing looks good the filter bag in the sump was running water out of the top so I took it out and washed it. The medium in the bag has only been in for a few weeks so it's not bad. My corals don't look to good everything is closed down. this is the first salt tank I have had and there is no one in my area for help!! Maybe I should have bought guppies!! Any Ideas would be great ------------- toviatt |
Replies:
Posted By: DLindquist
Date Posted: September 11 2011 at 8:05am
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Pictures-Pictures-Pictures. Your dirty filter bag could be causing the problem. Maybe even an algae bloom? ------------- A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have. |
Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: September 11 2011 at 8:05am
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Cloudy water usually ends up being a bacterial bloom. The best way to fight it is with a UV sterilizer. It will kill the bacteria and your skimmer should then be able to clear up the water. ------------- ---------------- Richard Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H |
Posted By: tammy
Date Posted: September 11 2011 at 8:16am
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Hate to sound stupid but what is bacteria bloom???
------------- toviatt |
Posted By: tammy
Date Posted: September 11 2011 at 8:19am
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I bought this tank used and it doesn't have a uv sterilizer sounds like I need to get one ------------- toviatt |
Posted By: sanddune600
Date Posted: September 11 2011 at 10:10am
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what are your test results salinity alk calcium ammonia nitrite and nitrates will tell us the most and what are all the things that you did in the last week or 2 such as water changes extra feedings if and any dosing done
bacteria blooms are caused by excessive protein in the water that can be converted to ammonia then nitrite and then nitrate this process is consistently going on but if your proteins become to high from over feeding, fish dieing, or chemical imbalance or swing causing things to die then your ammonia nitrites and nitrates will become at toxic levels and you will see a resulting algae bloom and possibly cloudy water as described not seeing or talking directly to you I would say 50% water change will help followed by one in the next day or 2 if things dont start looking better you can call me my number is below in my signature if you need any advise ------------- Andy Jorgensen My number is four three 5 7 six four 8 0 three four |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 11 2011 at 10:21am
Corals do eat bacteria but when it's gone wild like this, they will temporarily close up. Not to worry, they will open again when the bloom fades. The easiest method we have found to clear the water is twofold: - First, stop all feeding and supplements, except Alk and Ca supplementation. - Second, add a bag of AC to the system. AC stands for Activated Carbon. In my experience, AC is the only special filtration product that is absolutely necessary for all reef aquariums. All other necessary filtration is the biofiltration accomplished by the four live components spoken of here: http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 - Reefkeeping Tips AC is pretty much used up after 2 weeks so it needs replacing, but I have found that running AC for 2 weeks/month is sufficient for effective removal of the things that AC removes. What is the "medium in the bag" that you spoke of? Is it AC? Where is this bag located in the system? AC is most easily placed in a high flow area, like a loose bag of about 2 cups of AC near a pump intake where the water will run past the AC granules allowing for quick removal of the organic matter which is feeding the bacteria bloom. Placing it in the filter sock is counter productive since the particulate matter that a filter sock is meant to remove will clog the bag of AC. Some hobbyists choose to buy a "Reactor" to place their AC in, but this is simply one more aquarium gadget that takes up space and electricity. I prefer to KISS.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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tammy wrote:Posted By: sanddune600
Date Posted: September 11 2011 at 1:52pm
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KISS stands for keep it simple stupid in case you dont know ------------- Andy Jorgensen My number is four three 5 7 six four 8 0 three four |
Posted By: rwccomptech
Date Posted: September 11 2011 at 2:06pm
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I go down to elmo every few weeks, thats right next to hunnington. It does sound like you need a uv.
------------- Ron 20g 60x turnover 30" current pc fixture |
Posted By: tammy
Date Posted: September 12 2011 at 6:33am
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I would really be interested in our opinion of my tank. I haven't had any help other than what I have read here and there. I think I know what went wrong with it. I had a glass anenome and so I took the large piece of rock out of the tank that it was on and put it in the sink to get rid of the pest, ( I read this on a site on how to kill them with vinegar) it never said anything about air in the rock or re-cycling the rock after the process.. SOOO I made a mistake and it will take time for that rock to heal, do I need to shake it even though it had been in for several days to get the air out of it?
------------- toviatt |
Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: September 12 2011 at 8:36am
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Using vinegar is not the best way to get rid of aptasia/glass anemones. There are several other options, peppermint shrimp is one that several people have used successfully. Using the vinegar to get rid of the pest could have contributed to the issue. What is your pH as vinegar will alter it? Also there is a chance that the die off on the rock fed the bacteria and caused it to bloom. I would do a check of all essential parameters (pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, alk, ca, salinity) to see which one is off.
In the meantime, follow Mark's advice with the AC and stop feeding for awhile. Also if you have a refugium with macro in it, run the lights 24/7 until it clears out. If you don't then see if you can get some chaeto or other macro algae to place in the display tank and sump. When you put it in the sump, get a cheap clip on shop light and a 65K twist CF bulb and run it 24/7. The reason is that the macro will help act as a buffer when the bacteria starts to die off. The die off will cause your tank to get polluted and the macro will help to absorb the stuff. ------------- ---------------- Richard Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: September 12 2011 at 2:41pm
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The issue would be with the die off after having the rock out of the tank, not the vinegar unless it was poured over it. I highly recommend injecting vinegar. I have used it and seen it used many many times with awesome success with out causing any issues.
I personally cant have peppermint shrimp in my 225 because my mystery wrasse eats them. ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 12 2011 at 4:07pm
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Yes, even after a week, if the rock is not underneath too much other rock making it a pain to move, I would twist, turn and shake it to see if any trapped bubbles can be released. We recommended ceasing all feeding. Soon the bacteria will run out of food. In fact if left alone it will eat until it starves and the water will clear naturally. The use of AC and lighting macroalgae 24/7 is a way to ensure that it doesn't come back. If you can't have a Refugium with macroalgae, just put a bunch of Macroalgae in the tank up high where the light can shine on it. FYI, a UV Sterilizer may still be needed as a last resort after simpler things have been tried. You are awesome. I like your attitude. We can help you with all things reef. Please feel free to post a pic of your tank, maybe even a before pic if you have one. A picture is worth 1000 words. It may seem crazy, but we can often see things in a picture that help us make suggestions. If you can't figure how to post a pic here or if it's a cell phone pic, try to email it to me at [email protected] or send it to the phone # below. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: tammy
Date Posted: September 12 2011 at 6:33pm
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mark, I will send a pic for you to look at. I'm not sure if my rock is right or if I have enough?? All the rock came with the tank, I bought new sand when I got the tank because there wasn't much in it, so I added to what was there. The sand and rock were in water and we hurried the set up so I didn't get a great amount of time to set rock were I want ( hard for a perfectionist) But I keep tweaking it a little here and there. Does anyone ship the algae you were talking about? Or do you know of a place in the Provo Orem area? I have only found one store in Orem for Salt Water and it only opens at 2:00 I run my own business and if I go upstate (not often) I am there in the morning. I have a daughter if Salt Lake that come down on the weekends from she doesn't leave up there until Sat. afternoon so if there is a place to get the Algae please let me know. A lot of the stuff that I get I have to order in. Thanks Tammy ( my tank looks good today do I need to take the bag filled with the chemi pure out of the filter sock? ------------- toviatt |
Posted By: russianrick
Date Posted: September 12 2011 at 10:37pm
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There are at least two stores in the Provo/Orem area that I know of and can recommend. One is up in Orem at around 800 North-ish called Reef Runners. Another is Jay's Jungle on Center street in Provo between 200 and 400 West. You might look them up on the internet to be sure on those addresses, but I got a phone number for Reef Runners (801) 226-3474. The phone number for Jay's Jungle is (801) 356-7387. I would call them and ask if they have any macro algae. If they don't, I believe there is someone in the Orem area that might have some chaeto you could have. You should check in the aquarium classifieds on this site.
------------- In Soviet Russia, Fish collect YOU! 
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Posted By: phys
Date Posted: September 12 2011 at 11:52pm
| could it be a simple case of fine sand particulates floating around that had been distrubed by something? |
Posted By: russianrick
Date Posted: September 13 2011 at 12:58am
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If it were fine particulate, it would have cleared up by now. ------------- In Soviet Russia, Fish collect YOU!
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Posted By: tammy
Date Posted: September 13 2011 at 6:31am
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thank you so very much!!
------------- toviatt |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 13 2011 at 6:46pm
Is this pic you sent me they way it looks with cloudy water? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: tammy
Date Posted: September 13 2011 at 7:30pm
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Mark,
I took that pic yesterday when I got home and the water looks a 100 times better still not crystal clear, I think my filter bagg was a problem it was blocked I rinsed it out, I still have the bag of chemi-pure inside of it?? Not sure if I should take it out and put it in the bottom of the sump tank or leave it in the bag?? How about my rock?? do I need more space between them or do I need them higher in the tank? Not sure about the placement and the water flow. My return has two tubes and I have them pointed one going down about half and one making waves on the top. On the otherside of the tank I have a power head that curculates back to the side?? ------------- toviatt |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 14 2011 at 11:31am
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I would remove the bag of Chemipure, clean/recharge it according to the
manufacturers instructions and save it for future use. Future use would
be very limited. It has a very specific use but isn't needed on a day to
day basis. It's not so good to place any media in the filter floss bag. The water coming in churns around fast and pulverizes the media sending tiny particles throughout the tank. It's better to place a loose bag of media near or draped over the return pump intake. I run AC this way for 2 weeks/month. Your rock placement is fine. Do what you would like to do with it. Build one or more coral heads if you like by placing rock in separate distinct structures coming up from the sand. Use the tripod method from the Tip in the link below, to help keep the rock off the sand as much as possible. A little Caulerpa growing across the rock would make the setup more attractive to me and healthier for the entire system. Is there a Refugium? All circulation water that hits the water surface gets oxygenated and goes back down around the tank to help things breathe easier. I recommend moving powerheads down low pointing up to the water surface. This more effectively moves water directly from the bottom to the top for gas exchange. A diagonal/vertical water stream seems to be better for the entire tank. I've put together smaller tanks with only one ordinary powerhead sitting at the back bottom pointing straight up. These tanks had no external filtration, just the biofiltration of LS, LR, LW and Macroalgae. That one water stream seemed to create a healthier environment than any other money I could spend on the tank. Your tank is a 120, right. Here's a pic of my old 120. On the right side you can see some loc-line sending water up to the surface. There is another on the other side. Notice how the surface water is rolling in two places. Instead of powerheads this system had a "Closed Loop". Powerheads are much improved. If I were to do this system today, I'd use powerheads rather than a closed loop. This tank has a suspended reef structure. You can barely see the Blue Spotted Ribbontail Ray underneath the reef on the right side behind the Batfish. Yes this was a very unique system; the hit of the 2006 WMAS Reef Tour.  Here is the entire system 6 months earlier with a view of the simple RDP Refugium  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: tammy
Date Posted: September 14 2011 at 9:12pm
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Mark,
Thank you so much!! I have been going back reading a lot of the older posts and suggestions that have been written, so much help it's a wonder anything in my tank is alive. I am going to go to Provo tomorrow and get some algae for my tank I looked at your pics and I have room in my sump tank to put some. I took the chemi pure out of the tank, It's hard to believe the rock and sand will keep it clear. So I need to just put the charcoal in every two weeks?? Is there a brand that you recommend? ------------- toviatt |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 15 2011 at 10:16am
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Yes, Activated Carbon (AC) for 2 weeks every month. I stay away from AC in cardboard boxes. I like the pelletized AC because it's easier to contain in a larger mesh bag. There are people on utahreefs that sell it for cheap because they bought it in bulk. I once found it very cheap at Petco.com and bought a case. The life that grows in our aquariums is absolutely amazing. Each organism handles an aspect of the filtration. Hermits, bugs, worms and bacteria eat fish waste, bacteria eat bug waste and then algae and other bacteria eat the final bacteria waste(N compounds; the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate). The freed up N dissolves into the water and escapes via gas exchange at the water surface. Bugs, snails and fish eat the algae and so it goes round and round. A film of bacteria forms on all surfaces making particulate matter stick, removing it from the water column. All of this waste consumption is the water cleaning activity that we call biofiltration. As a tank matures and more worms and bugs develop good populations in the sand and somewhat in the rock, their spawn and larvae end up floating around the tank, especially at night. This feeds the tank with tiny live food which makes the tank even more stable and full of life. Enjoy. When you pick up the Macroalgae, ask the person if they might throw in a couple cups of their best LS. That will add diversity to your sand bed, hopefully introducing organisms that were lacking or had died off in your sand bed. The life in the sand bed is constantly changing. Populations of organisms are competing for resources, eating and being eaten and sometimes an entire population of an organism may disappear. Adding a little LS or a piece of uncured LR can help keep the diversity in our tanks. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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