Hey everyone we need some advise.  A group of us (just a bunch of club members) were discussing this the other day and I thought I'd take a quick poll/suggestion.

Here is the debate regarding guest speakers.  If we bring in 3 regular speakers per year, there is no problem.  Or if we bring in two great speakers per year there is no problem.

If however you would rather see 4 or 5 speakers per year we would have a problem.  One suggestion (which has been coming up for years now) is to charge for some meetings.  We would have to charge $5 for members and $10 for non members to attend a couple big name speaker meetings. 

The questions are as follows-
1) would you like to see more/better guest speakers, even if that meant we had to charge for those meetings OR would you rather have fewer speakers and have the meetings free?
2) would you pay $5 to see a big name speaker, lets say Calfo for example since we just had him? 

Or, do you see some other fundraising opportunity or have other suggestions along these lines.

Thanks

Adam

I enjoy being a member, but have yet to make it to a meeting.

I would not be opposed to raing the club dues by $5.00

I think assessing an admission fee for some higher priced speakers would be a good way to help offset the costs.  It is also a little more fair for the members that don't make it to the meeting.  Would $5 cover it, though?

What about taking donations (as opposed to mandatory admission fees) to cover these speaker's costs?  Where's Jake? He could keep an accounting of the donations.  When there is enough...we bring in another speaker.  The more we donate, the more (or better) guest speakers we can get.  This way visitors can come enjoy the meetings without having to pay.  I like the idea of being able to bring a guest with me, without them having to pay.

Club funds are doing fine.  Thought I should clear that up.

DVadar- great suggestions.  Okay let me rephrase the question.  What do you all think about charging $5 for non club members for bigtime speakers, but still free for club members?  That is my new question, and probably a better question.

What we are really trying to get at is how many speakers and how often.  If 50 people came to the meeting at each paid $5 that is $250, or basically half the airfare.  So regardless if it is $5, $10, $100 or whatever we charge for members or non members it boils down to "is this what you want?"

I don't have a preference, I'm just trying to gauge how everyone feels so we know what kind of meetings to plan.

Adam

As a presidency member I can say we are NOT going to fold. I'm not involved with the finances, so it would be better if someone addressed the specifics. Regardless, the point is that guest speakers are expensive to bring in. Utah is not a hub for major Hobby/Scientific marine research. We live in a freekin desert that's miles from "Anywhere that's Anywhere". To bring in a speaker we have to pay air fare, hotel, and meals. Each speaker has their own cost associated with bringing them out and varies due to geographic origination, perceived value of the speaker, and even how cool or anal the speaker is.

Our membership dues go to building rental, meeting snacks and the like.  If we relied solely on membership dues to cover speakers and normal meeting expenses, we'd probably have 1 speaker every 2 years. For the most part the club relies on the coral cutting meetings to fund speakers, yet we are limited to the number of those meetings due to the amount of effort that goes into them, and the fund availability of those buying frags.

Adam wants to know if the club A) Wants to maintain status quo and bring in 3-4 guest speakers a year funded mainly by coral cuttings, keeping the meetings free of charge, and the remaining meetings will be hosted/spoken by local members; OR B) Wants a change to having more speakers and thus having us as a club change our funding process.

Me? - $24 a year in support of the club and (extreme scenario) $60 for guest speakers each month is way cheap. (I can blow more than that at the LFS) My first taste of WMAS was with Julian Spring...and I don't remember what I paid...but I did...and it was excellent.

(Posted later than Adam's reply...I'm a fast typer, but a slow former of thoughts)

I would gladly pay 5 or 10 to hear first hand from the experts in this field, to me that's cheap for quality advice that will save you money in the long run.

My question is... Do we have to pay to here Adam speak?

I fear that charging admission will lead to a smaller turnout. $5 or $10 is no big deal to many of us, but others are reefing on a pretty tight budget, which is possibly why they aren't paid members in the first place. I would suggest trying to make more money at the Frag seminars (I have a couple ideas), or possibly having a small fee at the summer barbeque, or maybe selling refreshments at the meetings instead of giving them away. A little bit here and there, adds up and everyone still feels welcome. Just brain-storming of course. What do you think?

Oh, and I think 3 to 4 quality guest speakers is pretty good. If we make it too frequent, it may lose it's "seductive" quality. I also like having our local reef experts share there ideas regularly.

Me being new on the boards, new to SW and not being a Member "Yet" (I plan on attending the next meeting and paying the membership fee). So I hope I am not over stepping my bounds with the following statement.

 I have been a member of many Groups/Clubs (Car/hobby, etc)some more expensive per year and some much, much more expensive per year. However none offered nearly as much help, advice and guidance to me as this group has in less then 1 week on these boards.

The $24 membership fee is going to save me time, frustration and much money in the long run, and I am sure a mixture of local and  guest speakers would do the same for Newbs like me and those that are much more advanced.

I would be more than willing to pay and extra meeting fee once I am a member to bring in guest speakers.

Rob

Non-member enterance fees... $5-$10 for a "spotlight speaker" is more than fair. Keeping up with the frag fests as is (members pay half advertised cost of corals) is also fair, IMO. Maybe those who are selling in a larger group-type situation can "donate" some of there funds back to the club for their ability to set up "shop", too(kinda like a booth fee). We are getting some very valuable advice from many others, but it's the WMAS that we truly have to give kudos for allowing us to remain as close as we are able to do both at the Rose Garden once a month and on-line 24/7.

Jason

How about making them wear a garter and speaking for tips? Hey, it works in other industries!

Alot of people consider the WMAS meetings a monthly date with their hobby. Heck, it's less $ than a frag and you can't hardly get a Happy Meal at McD's for $5 anymore. I'd say that if the speaker needs to be bought for higher than others and they are certainly worth it then it's a no brainer! Either way the club members will bear the costs and at least you wouldn't need to raise the club fees.

But, will the $ be negitiated up front or will they speak for whatever comes in at the door?

How about making them wear a garter and speaking for tips?

The thought of Shimek in a thong.... *shudder*

I suggest we keep our annual dues at $24 and if needs be, charge for some speakers.

dschultz wrote: I didn't realize we paid to rent the rose garden place. Would it represent a large cost savings to the club if myself (or someone else) donated the  use of their building to have the meetings in?

No, not a large savings, but every bit helps.

If you know of a large meeting area where we could meet we are always open for suggestions.

The biggest thing is we don't want to change the place we meet often.  So we like to pick a place and stay with it, but we are quickly outgrowing the location we are in.

jfinch wrote: I suggest we keep our annual dues at $24 and if needs be, charge for some speakers.

I agree.  This is my vote.

Does the club have anything against showing us the budget?  I would be against giving the authority to the presidency to make that kind of a decision without better knowledge of how the dues are spent.  I like the idea of speakers but only so much. 

There is so much more that could be done in a once per month meeting.  What if you did before/after meeting classes on working with acrylic or electrical and charged a premium for those classes.  The money made to hold those meetings could make the difference if bringing in a special speaker.

I liked the idea mentioned previously of charging non-members for meetings.  I think this would be appropriate as we would accumulate much more money in the way of membership dues if people weren't allowed to freeload.  I would have paid my dues much sooner if I would have been forced to become a member to have the ability to PM on the messageboard.

Just my 2 cents.

Jody Oliverson

I like Jody's idea.  Is there a way to not show pictures to guests?  I know on some of the 4x4 boards I am on you cannot post pictures without being a paid member.  I think it would hurt more to not be able to view pics without being a member.  That way new people could come and ask questions, get some answers, but I think it is the pictures that everyone loves.

Fax

hmmm... I think this might be drifting away from what I think the club is about.  I think the we should be, for the most part, open to everyone.  Personally I'm happy with the number of guests we bring in (although I'm certainly not against having more... but I like to hear local hobbyists talk too).  And the current formula is working great, imo.  I'm not sure it needs fixing.   As soon as we start to get exclusive, we'll likely drive people away.  It was the friendly open attitude of the club that appealed to me and is why I joined.  If I would have attended the first meeting and been charged $5 to here Jon talk about chemistry, then go home and log on to the message board and find myself excluded from certain info or discussions, I would likely move on to reefcentral and hang out more at the LFS.  I have to believe that most people have personal integrity and if they are getting anything worthwhile from this club then they will pay their dues so the club can continue to exist.  Just my opinion.

This is not say that we couldn't have a couple extra BIG names each year (Sprung, Michaels, Delbeek, Shimek, etc..) and charge nonmembers a little fee to help offset the cost, but to make that practice standard would be wrong.

I again agree with what Jon said.

Thanks Jon,

I agree.  I got a kick out of reading Vidar and Star's blog yesterday.  Hearing them go through the difficulties of new tank-dom made me remember sitting in front of my 11 gallon with a flashlight at three AM trying to find these "pods" everyone on the board said I should have. 

Since I've only been to one meeting who am I to even comment on this topic.  One reason for my comment is the fact that I am able to budget a very limited amount of money to my hobbies.  I would appreciate if the presidency of this club was aware that charging me for such a visitor would be stretching me a bit thin.  This is coming from a guy who told his wife he'd like to go to one of the Big shows like MACNA or IMAC.  I don't know that our local club needs to bring these big time speakers in on a regular basis in order to keep me satisfied.  I can read, beyond my own reading, trial and error, I hope that this club will provide me with resources like Adam, Jake, Mark, Jon, etc.  People I can PM or visit with at a meeting to make my hobby expirience go further.  Sure a visit from a guy like Calfo is amazing but I'm still in awe of Eric, Kris, Randy and those mentioned above.

I could say more...

Jody

This has all been very helpful.  THANKS

As for funds.  We don't hide any of that.  We sit with around $2,000 in the bank.  We typically make around $1,500 from a cutting seminar.  Average cost to bring in a speaker is $700.  We pay around $100 each meeting in rent and refreshments and the like.  Then we have a couple $200-$400 costs like Reef Tour advertising and Tank of the Month plaques and the sound system and powerpoint projector. 

Personally I don't like bringing speakers in because they are a lot of work and a lot of money.  I don't like the work involved, but I like having them here.  The money isn't my money, but I want to make sure the club doesn't need something else instead.  But I'm happy to bring them in if that is what people want to do.  I'm just sitting at the helm trying to steer the ship wherever you all tell me to go.

Summed Up---- So it sounds like we are fine with $24 per year in membership.  We are fine with the status quo.  We like the idea of bringing in a big speaker or two per year, even if it means we have to charge $5-$10 for members or for guests only.  We'd prefer meetings free to all, but aren't against the cost.  Jody and Mark and others like listening to local speakers.  But then again some of us are certainly experienced enough that we only care to hear big names or cutting edge speakers to begin with.

Please keep sharing input and ideas

Adam

This is coming from a guy who told his wife he'd like to go to one of the Big shows like MACNA or IMAC

Tell me why you want to go, and I'll do my best to tell you which is better for you.

Adam

Mark Peterson wrote: Adam, when it comes to speakers, I for one, consider you and Jake and Jon well worth the money spent to bring y'all in.

True, but you probably also think AOL disks are worth the money.

Mark Peterson wrote:

Amen Mark! A couple high profile fish nerds a year is just fine with me. I usually get just as much great info from our local gurus as I do from the Shimek's and Calfo's (though I admit they are fun to listen to).

Mark-
Are you trying to say that when Jake and I give presentations you are getting what you paid for?  If so, I agree.

Adam

Xacttech wrote: I do like the idea of workshops though. Acrylic work, and other DIY workshops would be great, and a great way to raise money in addition to the frag fests. just a thought.

We just did this not to long ago.

Shane and Jon showed us how to make a kalk reactor, showed us some acrylic work, and had a really nice powerpoint.

I was thinking along the lines of what Jake just said.  Those suggestions sound just like notes from the meetings.  I don't think charging for a workshop like that would work, considering people could just come and learn that for free from our meetings.

I think this is why when pet stores try to teach a class or workshop no one cares, no one comes, and no one pays. 

Adam

I would gladly pay $5 at the door to hear another speaker (like Calfo), but at that point I think that maybe we should forgo our clubs regular activities (tank of the month) or extend the amount of time the speaker can actually talk.  I was riveted and on the edge of my seat (there is definately something wrong with me) with Anthony's presentation and would have appreciated hearing every word and not be 'rushed' through the end of his presentation.  I know we have time limitations but if we 'pay' at the door people (like me) will expect to hear all of what the speaker has to say and not be cut off.

Bringing in a couple of big names a year would be fine.  Too many and it begins to infringe on what this club is accomplishing or (I think) is about.  I have learned more from people on the board than from Anthony, so I feel that although it is great and impressive to bring in these people we can't forget what this club is about.  No restrictions, understanding there aren't any dumb questions and so many people who are willing to help!

I could go on but...

John

John,
Thanks for bringing this up again.  I'll address something here because I'm intrigued by what you said...
I know we have time limitations but if we 'pay' at the door people (like me) will expect to hear all of what the speaker has to say and not be cut off.
That is very different from the what the Presidency has tried to do.  We in fact are always trying to get the speakers to say less.  A very large percentage of the meeting attendees want to come, listen for an hour, and then get out of Dodge.  For those who do want to hear more I always plug and promote coming to dinner.  Most people are tired of hearing me talk about it every single month.  But hey Calfo was there until 1am so people had plenty of time to listen to him and ask questions.

Also, I should mention that we are always restricting our speakers time because we have had far too many speakers bore the crowd.  We've maybe had a couple that you wish you could hear more from, but we've had several that put some people to sleep in the back of the room.

Adam

Adam,

Understood.  I've been through several seminars that I wanted to bolt for the door.  In fact, I started bringing a timer and if the talk was boring or was going too long, I'd set the timer for a minute and let it go off briefly then, what do you know, I need to get back to work.

Unfortunately, I am limited in my time...but may have to find the time to kick back at Denny's...do they serve beer.

Personnaly, I think the presidency is doing a great job!  Though the way the interest of the club has grown since I joined (almost a year), restrictions/rules my need to be installed just to keep things structured and organized.

John