We have talked about this in the past.

The problem is coming up with something that everyone agrees on.

There are so many ways to do things that this task is difficult, but not impossible.

Jeff-
It is a really good suggestion.  In fact we tried making a booklet type thing for pet stores to just hand customers.  Mark has worked on a "dictionary of aquarium terms" type of thing.  So you should know that you have a great idea and we are in favor of it. 

Unfortunately even with only three people working on something we still can't agree on what to say.  In order to get everyone's ideas on the paper we'd end up writing a book.

But we're still listening to ideas on this subject.

Adam

I have been frustrated (before I joined this club) with trying to find out that kind of information.  When it comes to my tanks I am a tinkerer.  I love to try new things and see how it affects the tank.  Books like Sprung seemed a bit too technical for the beginner to learn about this that and the other when it comes to what lighting, filtration and additives.  Other books that I have, seem to be a bit to vaque only explaining that ph should be at such and such, and the temp should be (usually a frigid) 76 (in my opinion).

I have been toying with putting together a book.  I started out thinking it should start (each chapter) a bit light hearted for the beginner and gradually delve deeper into the science/technical aspects of the hobby.  Even with the understanding that even  within a small group of people there are many different ideas and understandings about the hows and whys, it has become amazingly clear that there are many right ways.  My frustrations started with not having a sure fire protocol for starting and maintaining a marine tank.

My idea has changed slightly by adding several tried and true methods.  For example: to raise the ph immediately you can add Kalk (pickling lime); to raise it gradually (over days) you can either leave your sump lights on for a longer period of time (my timer keeps getting stuck on and my ph climbs to 8.4 to 8.5 from 8.2 to 8.3) or raise your carbonate and calcium levels (if low) which (for me ) seem to stabilize around 8.2 to 8.3.

I have delayed my writings to absorb more from this club and posts and once I start up, want to get more technical input from the appropriate people.  Comparing to the other posts I have been a part of we have a unique group of people that makes us well rounded creating an ability to trouble shoot many (if not all) conditions.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to help more with the club and visiting with people for the book but hopefully soon...

I love Jimy Buffet so if it goes that far "Confessions of a Salt Reefer" could be the title.

John

I would LOVE this.  I think bugzme is just talking about a simple reference guide.  (Correct me if I'm wrong Bugzme.) Even though there are lots of different  ways to do things, one or two ways would be nice to know. 

For example: 

Best way to lower nitrate: 1) refugium with macroalgae, 2) water change, 3) etc.

Best way to lower phospate: kalkwasser or macroalgae

I wouldn't mind a simple list of IDEAL parameters (not just acceptable parameters).  Something like:

PH: Ideal xxx, with Acceptable parameters of xxx-xxx

Calcium: Ideal xxx ppm, with acceptable parameters of xxx- xxx ppm

Temperature: Ideal xxx, etc, etc.

---------------------------

I've started my own list because it's just easier to look at instead of looking things up in a book.  We all have reference books to go to, but a simple reminder page would be nice for the most common problem.

Maybe it could be written in a word document that could be downloaded and then everyone could modify it to meet their own needs.  It should be written by a beginner because you guys know too much to ever make it simple.

I think we will take about this more in-depth at our next presidency meeting.

Amie,

Right a quick reference guide would be great.  But what would Jon do if he didn't have to explain what alkalinity, ph and pickling lime were

John

jpiotrowski wrote: Right a quick reference guide would be great.  But what would Jon do if he didn't have to explain what alkalinity, ph and pickling lime were

The reference guide will just have to refer to your new book for further details.

Amie - I would use your guide if you have it written.  I think this is a great idea.  i'm still unsure about basics and I spend a ton of time working at it.  The generalities of what you are describing is great.  I would be willing to research threads on here from our experts (Mark, Jon, Jake etc.) and organize some of the posts by content.  I've done technical writing in the past and most of the content can already be found here.  I think some of you guys are getting stuck in wantiing to be right about the details.  Most of you when you answer our questions don't worry about being right you tell us what has worked in your expirience.

For example - The seastar had a great article in the archives about Kalk and how to use it.  That could be modified by some newer expirience and put together in a doc that could be allowed to be printed.

I don't know how many times I've seen people asking about diy skimmers.  There have been multiple posts and content relating to this very question.  It could easily be compilied into a format that makes for a thorough study of the subject.

Jody

I too was/am frustrated with there not being a 'right' way to do things.  I thought about a book/pamphlet to both keep things straight in my head and maybe help fellow hobbyists.  I have done tons of researching by internet, fish stores and text books and have concluded that even the authorities on the subject, cannot come to an agreement on alot of topics.  Even whether or not to even use a skimmer for example.

The idea to right the 'correct' way to build/run a marine system was based on the texts of J. Sprung, but as I read other authors I took totally different notes, thereby creating my own paradox.  The concept of my idea changed from the right way to do it to if you want to situationally based 'ideas' which would help people in the right direction.  Ex. if you want to just keep nice looking sps use 14K or higher bulbs.  But then you need to know wattage of MH's to use which depends on tank size and distance from the light source to the water surface and corals themselves.

In the last 4-5 years I have gone from a text book junkie (just the facts ma'am) to asking people how/why and what the outcome of their 'right' way.  This doesn't mean that someday there will be one way that significantly stands out but until then....I'm sticking to my own experiences.

Sorry, one more thing about compiling  is where do you start?  I have started several chapters dealing with (lets use kalk as an example).  First you need to start with a very detailed definition on what it is, does and it's affect on both ph and [Ca].  Then you can go into it's uses and how to add it to your system, which would include some sort of flow rate maybe as simple as 'use a drip system'.  Then you could talk about the types of sytems out there that would do this for you and maybe a forshadowing statement about how you would use a controler/measuring mechansim to adjust the flow rate (turn it on/off).  You could then go into DIY kalk reactor which would actually be a fairly large document well anything more than a couple of pages is long to me.

Blah blah blah.

I could go on with this but...

Don't get me wrong.  I think the original idea is great, but it would take alot of time an effort to put together (as I have found out).  Would be large.  And in my opinion there is no 'single' right way.  Things are too situational.  Take Marks tank.  It's beautiful and healthy, but doesn't really have any fancy cadgets and crap like mine does imagine that. 

My post isn't to discourage this idea as I would try to help with putting it together, it is only my thoughts and some of the issues that have delayed any seriousness on my part.

John

Star wrote: I agree that this would be a great idea... Maybe instead of having cards printed next time, put a list of ideal parameters for a tank. Along with that, it would be good to put together 1 web page with a link to it from the home of utahReefs.  inside there, what to do if parameters are too high or too low.  list EVERYTHING that could be done if it's too high or too low.  (if it's like anything else in this world, there is never jsut 1 right answer) ... Along with that, maybe some suggestions for certain animals.  What to stay away from for the first year, what to feed things, etc.  Everything in one localized place so that it can be referenced to and added to / subtracted from in 1 year. I don't mind putting somethign like this together if someone will post it to the site for me?  Would have to also post updates... unless you want to just link it to our web page & we can put it there?

This seems almost impossible to do.  There are large books that don't cover all that information.

I think we are planning on sticking to a quick reference sheet or pamphlet.

Jake,

Thanks, I wrote for 15 min trying to say what you said in two sentences.

It even makes it more difficult when you try including all the 'right' ways.

Maybe we could put together a series of books and pamphlets?  One for sps for example?  and maybe later on condense it into a text?

John

Even Mark's simple list looks like a lengthy task to me. 
I say if Jon is really going to put this together, more power to him.  I for one wouldn't want that job . 

Really with all the books and online articles out there I think this pamphlet should be as small as possible. 

Adam

Adam,

I was thinking of only the true mechanics of the tank, not going into types of corals/fish/inverts to keep; only if you want sps or other high light organisms, then you will need metal halides good flow, high water quality describing what all these mean but not go into the specifics about each type of coral....that has been done, but good concise for the beginner, detailed for the experienced mechanics has not...or I haven't seen it yet.

John

I would think in a short pamphlet form this could be a great teaser to steer people here for more detailed information.  I wonder what percentage of people who set up a SW tank get frustrated and take it down/sell out like my neighbors.  This would be a good selling point for the LFS to keep these around, to keep their customers around.

Fax

I wonder what percentage of people who set up a SW tank get frustrated and take it down/sell out like my neighbors.

90% within a year.  I keep hearing that stat during presentations but I'm not sure if I really believe it.

Adam

bugzme wrote: Again I agree with Amie make it simple and to the point!

Hey, thanks.

I think we all agree that there are great books and websites out there that address everything imaginable about this hobby.  And there are people in this club that know more in their little finger than I ever hope, or want,  to know.    But, as a beginner, it would have been great to have had a place to go to find out what LFS or SPS meant.  Or how to do a water change.  Or that I needed to top off my tank every other day with RO water (not salt water).  These are basic things that would have made my learning curve a little easier.  

I think that as a beginner, there really should only be one or two ways to do things.  Then, as you get more advanced in the hobby and have success, you start experimenting with other methods, etc. 

For example,  I don't think it's a bad idea to tell new people to mix their new water 24+ hours before a water change (using RO water), get a powerhead on the water to ensure it's mixed well, and heat it to the same temperature as the tank.  After 8 months of doing that, you can tell them that you dump the salt into new tap water right before adding it to the tank and if the water is room temperature - it's good enough. 

Adam Blundell wrote: Even Mark's simple list looks like a lengthy task to me.

I agree.  That also looks like a whole book to me.

Jeff are you looking for something like this?

Temperature:
   Ideal Range:  76-81F

   If its too low:  Add a heater to tank

   If it's too high:  Add fans to evaporate more tank water, add chiller, ...

With a section for all sorts of water parameters (SG, alk, calcium, etc) and situations (white spots on my fish, cloudy water, etc)?

yes Including diy methods also

Jeff- I'm with you and with Aime.  I think Jake is too.  I say we go for it, as long as we know that we aren't trying to write a book.
I believe Finch is offering to put this together????

Adam

Anyone have Sprungs book that I could borrow.  I was a bit disappointed when I located the cost!

Jody Oliverson

I have the one where he gives coral identifications. I think its called corals a quick reference guide, and I also have aquarium corals by eric borneman, but i just got that one and am reading it.  Check out ebay for these books, you have to go through about 200 books, but you can find some really good prices.  Let me know if you would like to borrow it.

Between Jake and myself we have every book. 

Adam