Auto top off
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: Equipment
Forum Description: This is the place to ask question about reef equipment.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66949
Printed Date: June 25 2026 at 7:30pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Auto top off
Posted By: WhiteReef
Subject: Auto top off
Date Posted: October 04 2013 at 11:49pm
I wanted to use an auto top off while out on vacation for a week. I have a very small gap between the sump and the stand, that I can't really get much of a res. installed. I was thinking of getting the JBJ system setup and use a plastic storage container to hold the top off. Is this a safe thing to do? I won't have anyone to check on it, so that does have some concern to me. Also the only places I have found the JBJ ato is online. Are there an LFS that carry it?
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Replies:
Posted By: Akira
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 3:53am
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I use 2 floats and a junction box with a short extension cord wired in a series , 1 float is low level other is to prevent an over flow . A rubber maid tote to hold the water and a maxi jet pump . Total cost about $60 . I switch the neutral not the line side of voltage. Never had an issue when I go out of town . If you need help let me know . Kurt 801-637-6113
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Posted By: Fatman
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 9:04am
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 9:13am
Aloha,
I use a very simple and failure proof way to do top-off while on vacation, but before you go and leave the tank for a week, here is some sage advice, learned from countless hobbyists who came home to a disaster:
Ask an experienced hobbyist to come check on your tank every other day or two.
No fail vacation top-off 1. Fill a bucket with the amount of RO water you expect the tank to need and place it on a stable chair or ladder next to and above the tank or sump. 2. Secure a length of air line tubing near the bottom of the bucket(I use a stiff tube from an undergravel filter airline to extend to the bottom). 3. Lead the output end of the tubing to a secure position over the tank/sump. (large spring clamps are very secure) 4. Start the siphon and tie a knot (or use a standard plastic air valve) in the end of the tubing and adjust the knot tightness until the drops are just the right speed to keep the tank water at a constant level or slightly less. This will take some attention over a day or so to get it right. 5. Instruct the tank sitter/experienced hobbyist on how it's set up and to add more water if the drip doesn't keep up. They can also top off the top-off bucket if 5 gal of water won't last the entire vacation.
It is so very comforting to know that I have someone watching my tank that knows exactly what to watch out for and what to do if a problem arises. (Thanks Jake)
Have fun, Mark 
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 9:40am
Where is a good place to pickup the float switches?
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 9:43am
Float switches can fail and setting up complicated apparatus just before going on vacation is a recipe for disaster. I've seen it dozens of times and had it happen to me.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 10:18am
Mark, I appreciate your advice. However, it seems to me that starting a slow drip has its issues as much as a float switch setup. The only thing that is the equalizer is having some one watch your tank. At this point I am more willing to go the route of using a float switch setup and have someone periodically check the tank. However that all depends on if I can't find someone to top it off daily for me. Utilimately I will be getting an ATO and just use a gallon jug. That will allow me to more slowly add water and additives.
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 10:26am
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If you use a float with a gravity fed ATO, with a small sized top off container you really can't wreak havoc on your tank. I'd use a container that, if the float failed, it was small enough not to overflow the sump. Then you just need to get someone to add water to your top off container while you are away.
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Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 10:48am
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Just thought i would chime in...
I use the JBJ ATO myself and thouht i might throw in my two cents. My current setup is a brute 20g plastic garbage can, the ATO, and a maxijet pump with some tubing. I add between 10-15g or RO water every week or so to keep the bucket 3/4 full.
I have had very few issues with the mechanical features of the ATO, it comes with everything you need (other than pump/bucket), and overall i think it was worth the money.
That being said.... i did have a few problems with my ATO, but i think most of them were dumb faults of my own. When you put your floats in the tank/sump make sure they are not in an area with lots of flow. I first put mine in the sump then for some reason i put my top off tube right next to it and the flow kept the float mechanism down....(again that was my own fault). I also had an issue with the plastic housing around the float, its very easy to push the float laterally into the plastic housing (again keeping the float in the down position).
I have heard of people having floats build up deposits, causing floats to not function properly but i soak mine in vinegar once a month during tank cleaning day, so i havent experienced this.
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Posted By: DLindquist
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 10:51am
Any top off has the potential to fail. While I've used the drip method Mark is so passionately pushing for years past, it has very limited reliability. I often had to make adjustments every couple of days. Either too much or too little water depending on the weather and rate of evaporation.. A couple of times I came home from vacation to a near disasterous low water level in our sump. When we upgrading to the 270G, I installed a gravity feed Eshopps float valve attached to a 30G drum. Water level has not fluctuated in over 1.5 yrs. as long as I remembered to fill the drum up every 6-10 days.
------------- A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have.
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Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 11:45am
This is all really good information and appreciate it. Is there a local place to get float switches or system?
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 3:27pm
I didn't read above, but the last thing i would do is set up an auto top off before vacation. Just have someone come over. Or even chance the evaporation and let it go. But don't set up something the week you leave. Has ended badly for many people.
Adam
------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun!
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Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 3:52pm
I carry float switches.
------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected]
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Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 7:57pm
I'm with Adam. Never change anything two weeks before you leave!!!
As far as Ato go, I made all of my own with parts from autotopoff.com. Easy & cheap!
------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water
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Posted By: phys
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 8:18pm
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Train a helper monkey and just set some food out for the time you're gone... Or, just fine a friend to do it for you.. Nikki and Adam are very correct, something new that needs adjustment always has time to fail if you don't the have time to adjust it.
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Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 10:32pm
Again, thanks for all the helpful advice. I will be setting up an ATO, but I will rely on the tried and true ... have someone physically come over and add water to the tank.
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Posted By: Fatman
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 11:49pm
Posted By: Akira
Date Posted: October 06 2013 at 2:15am
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I bought mine from Grainger. I use 2 so if it some how gets to high of a level (such as gunked up or a snail on it) the second one will turn it off. Also my water tote I never fill more than my sump could hold if it did happen to pump all the water into the sump. Not sure what Eric sells but the ones at Grainger have a clip to remove the float from the shaft they slide on and if you flip the float over it changes the contacts from a normally open to a normally closed or vice versa. So my low level is a normally closed and high level is a normally closed also .
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: October 06 2013 at 8:17am
Mark Peterson wrote:
Float switches can fail and setting up complicated apparatus just before going on vacation is a recipe for disaster. I've seen it dozens of times and had it happen to me.
| Me too.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: October 06 2013 at 9:53am
Remind me who Erik and Grainger are?
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: October 06 2013 at 11:41am
Eric owns and runs Aquarium Creations in Draper. Grainger Industrial Supply has a location in Salt Lake City and one in Ogden.
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Posted By: chuckfu
Date Posted: October 06 2013 at 12:14pm
Mark Peterson wrote:
Mark Peterson wrote:
Float switches can fail and setting up complicated apparatus just before going on vacation is a recipe for disaster. I've seen it dozens of times and had it happen to me.
| Me too.
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Mark,
You replied to your own statement...... funny!
------------- Try, try, try, then give up!
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Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: October 06 2013 at 12:17pm
Thanks for the info Mike!
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Posted By: Akira
Date Posted: October 06 2013 at 6:15pm
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Grainger is a local industrial supply house. Her is a link to what I used.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=2A554&op=search&Ntt=2A554&N=0&GlobalSearch=true&sst=subset" rel="nofollow - http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=2A554&op=search&Ntt=2A554&N=0&GlobalSearch=true&sst=subset
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Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: October 07 2013 at 3:30pm
@FAT I found the post you did on yours http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61063&KW=ato&PID=498329&title=diy-ato#498329" rel="nofollow - FAT's ATO Build
Kurt - do you use a switch box like Fat?
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Posted By: Akira
Date Posted: October 08 2013 at 2:35am
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I do not use they relay and phone charger . I just use the neutral as my switch leg through the floats which lets me use a smaller junction box ,1 less plug to contend with and 2 less things to fail . ( relay and charger ) Besides the neutral never carries any return voltage unless the pump is running and a small pump without me looking at the specs and doing the math imo is very minimal. I have used this same set up for about 2 years now with only one issue. A pump cord held my primary float down and it pumped until my safety shut it off. It only raised the water level in my sump about 1 1/2 ". And it was my own fault after doing maintenance and not looping the cord correctly.
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Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: October 20 2013 at 12:28pm
Well, I guess that it was good not to have the auto top off setup. My vacation was riddled with several mishaps. The first was our room reservation having issues, then a bad tire, dislocating my shoulder, lights not turning on one day, and my clam finally biting the bullet. The death of my clam made for a smelly return. All could think is there was for sure going to be a huge mess if I had set one up.
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: November 05 2013 at 1:40pm
After some additional research I chose to buy a pre-built ATO by TUNZE off of Bulk Reef Supply. So far things look good, but it has only been setup for a day.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/tunze-osmolator-universal-3155-auto-top-off.html" rel="nofollow - TUNZE OSMOLATOR UNIVERSAL 3155 AUTO TOP OFF
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Posted By: ksmart
Date Posted: November 05 2013 at 1:56pm
I really like the pre-built ones. I think you will be happy. I have a JBJ (not currently setup, it was setup on my jbj 24 gallon) and I had it up for a few months with no issues. I had a no-name brand that I picked up off a friend that he got on ebay and it worked ok until the power went out. When the power came back on it fried the system even though it was plugged into a surge protector..
In the past I used a gravity fed ato that was plumbed into my sump and I like that a lot, it was simple but I dont have sumps on my current setups.
sorry to hear about your clam :(
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Posted By: speyside712
Date Posted: November 06 2013 at 1:01pm
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Good choice on the TUNZE, i have the same one myself. Its awesome. Most expensive, but definitely the nicest one out there. The laser eye is the most accurate one available, and due to it hanging over the waters center its nearly impossible for a snail to get on it and block the eye, unlike a float switch, or float valve. Just make sure the pump in the autotop off is located below the tubing output in your sump. This prevents it from continuing to syphon after it turns off. To prevent back syphon from the tank back to the topoff container, keep the tubing output high in the sump, so that its not underwater. The only issue i've found so far is due to the design of my (and most) sumps. How the baffles are set up, all evaporation that occurs is visible in the final section of the sump, where the return pump is located. Because of this thats where your autotop off sensor has to be located. The problem is, if one or both of your overflows get clogged, the level in the sump will go down - triggering the autotop off to refill the sump. This would continue until your autotop off emptied itself, with your display tank overflowing. To remedy this I have my controller set up to kill the power to the auto topoff if it runs for more than 15 seconds. Solves everything :) But you need a controller of course.
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Posted By: speyside712
Date Posted: November 06 2013 at 1:09pm
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I might also suggest putting your return pump on a float switch, shutting if off if the water level in the sump gets to low so that it doesn't burn itself out and start your house on fire. If your overflows gets clogged and your ATO cant keep up with the dropping water level (prior to the controller shutting the ATO off) it will kill the return pump. Normally this would only happen temporarily until the ATO catches up and opens the float switch again, but you can set your controller to do this: - once the float switch has shut down the return pump, don't turn it back on until I manually turn it back on. This also prevents the ATO from ever malfunctioning and filling your whole tank with fresh water. All this is probably overkill, but i like to think of every possible scenario and have a fail safe so I don't flood my house (and my neighbors, living in a condo above other people), not to mention kill all the fish.
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Posted By: Ann_A
Date Posted: November 06 2013 at 2:28pm
I can't help but notice that all of those fail-safes (great ideas though they are) would only be necessary in the event of the overflow getting clogged. I would think you'd just start off with a fail-safe overflow design such as the bean animal or herbie and would probably be fine. Although it never hurts to be too careful.
------------- http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53856&title=annes-65g-rsm-reef" rel="nofollow - RSM 250 Reef
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Posted By: speyside712
Date Posted: November 06 2013 at 3:42pm
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I actually have a herbie right now (thats the one with 2 overflow pipes, at different heights right?) I don't think there is ever a way to ensure your overflow doesn't clog. You just have to prepare for the worst in my opinion haha. I think i'm just a little paranoid about possible disasters! haha, you could probably say i'm the king of fail safes. I have quite a few other fail-safes on my system as well. For instance: I have strainers on both overflows to prevent a snail crawling down them. I have a screen above my overflow box so nothing large than the teeth can get into the overflow box. I have a leak detector that shuts off my return pump in the event of water on the floor. I wired a new outlet from my circuit breaker so that my tank is running on two different circuits - incase 1 trips it doesnt kill the power to everything. The whole tank runs over 1000 watts so all of it being on one circuit seemed like an overload. All the outlets used are GFIs My controller has 16 controllable outlets that turn on and off 3 fans, lights, heaters, my ATO, return pump, 2 dosing pumps, and even the skimmer (if the temperature skyrockets, incase its the pump overheating, this happened to me once). I tried to think of every possible thing that could go wrong and put a fix in place! Either overflow cloging both overflows clog return pump clogs power outage single outlet(s) failing circuit breaker trips heater stuck on/off ATO stuck on/off Dosing pump stuck on/off If you know of any other things that can break let me know and maybe I can come up with a solution!
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Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: November 06 2013 at 4:50pm
^
------------- 28g jbj led nano, 150 g mixed reef, skimz skimmer, AI blue sol's, Reef Angel controller, wp40's, aquamedic reef doser
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Posted By: WhiteReef
Date Posted: November 14 2013 at 10:08am
Thanks for the feedback from everyone on this. I do have a concern that came up the other day. We had a power bump that caused the unit to fail. When I reset it, it started working just fine. When I tried to reproduce the issue by turning all the power off then on, it worked fine without issues. Any idea why this would happen?
I do have the two sensors on the same bracket, so when the water flows into the sump it trips the overfill sensor when the power is off. When I did the tests it beeped for a few seconds while the sump was then resetting back to normal levels. After that it was back to normal operations.
My thought was that the overfill sensor was the issue, but I can't verify that. Also the only other thing is that a power bump can send bad current when it goes down or back up, so that might be why.
Any thoughts?
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Richard
Former 47G Column Reef, Magna 20" x 18" x 31"H
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 15 2013 at 10:56am
You are right. Electricity will actually jump in voltage/amperage before and/or after
it drops off. This can cause all kind of havoc and even damage on
electronic/electrical equipment.
A power outage at your house is actually a power outage for the entire subdivision or further, right! Have you heard of power bumps and brownouts? The power being used by other equipment in the house, like a regrigerator, and other equipment in the neighborhood, like everyone else's refrigerators affects the way electrical power goes down and back on. To avoid damage, it's sometimes recommended to turn off electrical equipment before the power comes back on.
This is why I use KISS. I try to employ processes that are not tied to something that could interfere or go down.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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