Sand Sifting Starfish
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: Invertebrates
Forum Description: This is the place to ask questions about invertebrates.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74741
Printed Date: August 05 2025 at 1:26am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Sand Sifting Starfish
Posted By: Marcoss
Subject: Sand Sifting Starfish
Date Posted: February 07 2015 at 11:38am
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So, I'm looking to get some opinions on sand sifting starfish from those who have them. I read a lot about this starfish before buying it and a lot of people said they were good and as many, or more, said they were bad. Many people state that the starfish will only eat the good bacteria as well as the bad. But they claim they eat so much good that they end up harming he tank. My start fish seems to be eating well and almost too well. Now I have these concerns: 1. Will he run out of food? I have read on many sites that they will eat leftover food and do not need to just eat certain things like once thought. 2. Could he really eat too much good stuff? My biggest concern is he seems to have eaten a lot and I don't want it to starve A lot of what I read was dated pretty old. It seem like pre 2010 it was a really bad idea to have a starfish and not many people talk about it now. I am just curious to hear from those that keep them versus those who have read they are bad. Thanks! Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Replies:
Posted By: Aquatic Evolution
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 4:11pm
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Easy to keep, harmless, I currently have and will always introduce them in my own tanks. I have 100+ spread amongst my service accounts and NEVER had a problem. Many Sea stars 10 years old or more ------------- 
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Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 4:26pm
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I've only had positive experiences with them. I've never known one to destroy the usefulness of a sandbed. Not as experienced as some other people with them though. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 1:25pm
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Good morning. Thank you two for the feedback. After researching this more, I found that a lot of reefs have them and its kind of a moot subject to many reefers. From reading, it seems like long ago it was thought to have been a bad idea without anything to confirm the bad idea. Kind of like when the world was flat. Anyway, I have been watching mine and I have noticed that he does not drop below about 1 inch of sand, at most. He stays well above most of the sand and I have also noticed that he will hover over spots that seem to have food. I don't know if he eats it or not, but when the tank has a piece of mysis or shrimp that sticks in the sand, he will crawl over to it. Thanks! Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 7:18pm
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I disagree with your conclusion. After thinking this over quite a lot, I believe the difference is not whether the earth is flat but whether there is reason for wanting tiny animals living in the sand bed. Please hear me out. Having worked in the tank maintenance business I know that the majority of clients want the sand to be clean and white. Many hobbyists also enjoy the look of clean white sand. Sand vacuuming tends to be very common in the tank maintenance industry especially because it is self perpetuating. Once sand vacuuming is started, for the benefit of the client it must be continued on a regular schedule. Sand Sifting Stars, with their action of turning over the sand and eating detritus, reduce the need for vacuuming while helping the sand stay white. It's a logical choice. I, on the other hand, as a coral farmer want my sand bed to be highly populated with bugs and worms. My reasoning is this. The spawn and larvae of many of these tiny animals come up into the water column where coral feed on them, especially at night. If you have ever seen images or movies of the reef at night, this concept should make sense. I have seen clouds of spawn/larvae in my reef tanks at night. Many coral are especially beautiful at night with their tentacles fully extended for catching food. This plethora of live food has the added benefit of practically eliminating the need for coral spot feeding. If a Sand Sifting Star were present, it would eat many of those tiny animals as well as disturb the substrate to the point that bugs and worms would struggle to exist there. Regarding the cleanliness and whiteness of a sand bed full of bugs and worms, of course the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the little critters keep it looking pretty nice, IMO. Then there is always the usefulness of a Sand Sifting Cucumber to keep the sand cleaned up. Cukes are less disturbing to the bugs and worms.  Hopefully this offers an alternative, informed viewpoint regarding the subject. Aloha, Mark
 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 7:58pm
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Hey Mark Do you think this is true with a deep sand bed? I don't monitor the star fish often but I don't see it go deep. I would think the good items can get out. In the long future I want a mandarin so I want the sand to accommodate the fish. I am learning slowly and wish I had more time to implement what makes sense to me. The starfish seems to cover about 2% of the floor so don't you think the good worms could escape in the remainder of the space? On my phone so I have to be short. Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: phys
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 8:15pm
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I'm an advocate of both methods of what Mark said combined... I often vacuum my sand to help get rid of detritus but I only do small sections at a time so I don't suck up whole populations of the bugs and worms that Mark refers to. That being said, having a sand star either too large or in too high of numbers in your tank can cause it to starve to death or reduce the populations of the sand life too much. If you're looking to get a mandarin, be sure to have a lot of places in your rocks for copopods and other life to reproduce in where it cant be decimated by the fish. Sand is only one of the places you'll find them in. I often see a lot of bugs under live rock, corals, shells, etc... basically anywhere it can hide. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 8:49pm
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I agree with Paul/phys. If a Mandarin is wanted, I would recommend not keeping a Sand Sifting Star, ever. If Shawn/Aquatic Evolution has a method for doing otherwise, I'd like to hear it. In a new sand bed mostly devoid of bugs and worms, the only place a SSStar could find any food is at or just below the surface. In really old sand beds that have been left undisturbed for years, SSStars go deep. I often suggest them for a 2-4 month clean up of those old sand beds behind the rocks where vacuuming can't reach. They are very easy to remove when the job is done. Aloha
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: February 23 2015 at 8:56am
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Mark/Phys, Makes sense about the sand sifter staying above to find food. I mean, it is fully covered in sand, but I can see it when it is by the glass. My next question is; how do you know you only have enough food for either a Mandarin or a sand sifting star fish? I can monitor what my clowns eat and know how much they are eating in about 3 minutes. That said, how do you monitor how much the star fish is eating so it does not eat everything and run out? Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 23 2015 at 9:40am
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1. Yes, the SSStar is not on top of the sand. It's natural behavior is to stay in the sand for food and protection. As it moves near the surface, anything sitting on top may drop down among the sand particles so it can capture it with it's tube feet. 2. The Mandarin is a constant picker. It spends most of it's day moving over sand and rock to find the bugs it needs. Unfortunately, the belly of a Mandarin is very hard to see, unless it is extended full of food which rarely happens in our aquariums because of the lack of the right food for them. The belly of a SSStar is completely unseen and it stays hidden under the sand, so monitoring how much it's eating is pretty much impossible except by observing it's behavior. A Star that is moving fast around the tank is a starving Star that has put out one last burst of energy to locate food to survive. A Star that is not moving much is either finding what it needs or is starved to the point of death. Also we may see an animal eating, but the food may not provide all it's nutritional needs and it eventually gets sick and dies. 3. In a natural healthy environment the SSStar will grow. In our aquariums, as it grows it's need for food increases and it eventually reaches a point where it stops growing and just survives on the available food. Mandarins in nature live in Rubble Zones where SStars do not live. Many animals are incompatible in our aquariums because we cannot provide enough of their natural environment and necessary food. Aloha
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 6:40pm
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Hi, Agreed on everything. My question is: how do you know when they have enough food or not enough? All I read/hear is that you need a mature system. But when does it go from new to mature? I assume its not a time thing, or a parameters thing, because you can achieve great parameters in a short time. I assume its when items are level, but when is this? When did you decide you had enough food for a Mandarin, assuming you have one? ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: phys
Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 8:08pm
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For mandarins, its rare to have enough food in anything smaller than a 40 gallon or so. You should have enough food if you see copopods and other bugs all over you glass and your rock. Having a rubble pile and feeding phytoplankton before you get the fish will help the little guys get established. Keep feeding them and they'll be able to reproduce. Its hard to tell exactly how much food you have for them though. A good estimate is just having enough sand, rock, and tank in order for them to be able to reproduce all over before being eaten. Some people have been able to get mandarins to eat frozen foods but its a process and you'll need to be sure you have enough natural foods for it to make the switch. Usually a tank is "mature" when the live rock has been growing stuff on it, the sand actually appears slightly dirty, and when you can see enough bugs around to go "what the heck are all those little bugs?". |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 25 2015 at 6:10pm
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Excellent description. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: March 03 2015 at 4:13pm
Thank you. As always, this hobby is kind of grey. But your answer helps a ton! I do see a ton of odd stuff coming out. The newest thing are little shrimp looking things. I was killing them but saw on a site that they are good. Thanks! ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
phys wrote:Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 03 2015 at 4:28pm
Have you actually done counts or studies on this? You can't just say "the bugs in the sand keep it clean" What "bugs" are eaten between the two, do you actually know how much is consumed by each invertebrate? What benefit do the "bugs" that are being consumed actually play? Get a scoop of sand, put it under a microscope, then research the "bugs" you find. Let me make it clear that I do agree there is plenty of helpful life to be found in a sandbed that helps with the waste removal process. I'm just advocating the documented and scientific study of said sandbed, instead of assumptions and guesses. FYI, cucumbers digest larger amounts of bioload than sand sifting stars. They burn more calories than the sand sifting stars, and hence need to consume more to maintain. They also have larger and more complex digestive systems. Cucumbers are a larger hit to the life in the sandbed than aforementioned starfish. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 03 2015 at 5:19pm
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I don't know which of us is the bigger idiot. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 03 2015 at 7:32pm
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I don't think asking for qualifying facts to back the statement that "sand sifting starfish eat more bugs than cucumbers" is idiotic. I just like to run my reef based on facts ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: March 03 2015 at 9:06pm
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I didn't read above- Interesting timing on this. I'm staring to think they are good, and consider using them. They've had a really bad reputation (maybe justified, maybe not) for many years. I've always had many large brittle stars (I have probably 8 in my tank) and cucumbers (I have probably 5). But I'm really starting to consider the sand stars. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 04 2015 at 6:33am
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Came back to delete this but John already saw it. You are right, my friend. I was getting defensive and argumentative. Sorry. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 04 2015 at 7:25am
Easy there tiger, I meant no offense. Tiger tail cucumbers eat more than sand sifter stars. I could be in the hobby for 300 years and nothing would change that. A quick dissection of the gut of both invertebrates will confirm my claim if you're truly skeptical. It wasn't an attack on you personally. We're all here to learn new things about a hobby we love. Everything is okaaaay. We're all friends.  If you're allowed to post your two cents, let others post theirs. Koooombaiaaaaaaahhh my lord Koooombiaaaaaaaahhhh ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 04 2015 at 3:12pm
It's all good! Now can we hold hands?... ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: March 04 2015 at 3:46pm
I guess you won't know until you personally try it. I have had my star fish since the time of my tank, so I don't know a tank without it. If it survives, than someone might say that my tank is doing well, if it dies, they might say it starved. Its hard to say what will really happen and why. :) ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: 80cent
Date Posted: March 04 2015 at 4:40pm
| Hey Shawn, what kind of stars do you prefer? |