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T5 vs VHO- any comparisons out there?

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shaggydoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaggydoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2007 at 12:42am
I definitely disagree with the statement that halides are cheaper than t5. My t5 system was, without a doubt, cheaper than the alternative mh option. I had to choose between 8 t5 which were under 500 (brand new) including bulbs versus 2 250w mh with actinic supplements. Even if I found the mh used I probably would have broke 500 for the entire setup.

Then the cost of running the lights comes into play. I know my old mh system put out a lot more heat than my t5's do. More heat means more energy wasted in the form of heat (I learned something from physics class). And if my bulbs really last 2 yrs than there is more savings in replacement bulbs (but not if I keep tweaking my bulb selection every 6 months ) . Not to mention I am using 200 less watts then the alternative mh system. Bottom line is I love t5 but the look is not for everyone and a lot of this hobby is for looks so buy what you like because we are talking pennies of savings when compared to the massive amounts of cash we spend on livestock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Piker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2007 at 3:40am
Quote Corey- I don't think your question is silly.  Your goal to find something better is a great trait.  But your question didn't go anywhere.
 
However... this last post you made did go somewhere.  You brought up
1) cost effectiveness
2) temp swings
 
Now I think I know your questions. 
1) "Has anyone tested t5's to see if they are cheaper to buy and run then metal halide"
2) "Has anyone tested t5's to see how much heat they give off"
3) "Has anyone tested t5's to see how much electricity they use to produce 1 unit of par"
 
Are those the questions you are thinking?  Because to me, the question of t5's (or of any bulb) is "does it grow coral" and "does it make my tank look cool".  So when you asked if anybody has compared them I thought "sure lots of people have them on good looking tanks" and I didn't think anything about cost or temperature.



You have a point "does it grow coral", however for some of us out there who have tanks in the... oh 30 gal range heat can be a very tough thing to control as well as light distribution; too close/too much and your burning, too far/too little and you're starving, this is one of the questions that has kept a beginner aquarist like me afraid to upgrade and left with mediocre lights for 9 months.   This question goes deeper than just which is better it involves what you are trying to do with it.
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Corey Price View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corey Price Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2007 at 8:21am
Adam, you're right on the money.  The goal of the post is to really look into the cost effectiveness (which includes heat, if you have to run a chiller to cool your tank due to excessive heat) of such systems.  If so many people are touting T5 flourescents as the latest and greatest, I want to see some cost/benefit analysis.  Unfortunately, I understand that the industry is run by what sells...
 
Aaron, I have looked at T5 systems and found them to be quite expensive, about $110 per 2-bulb pair.  I bought two 250w DE MH new for $500, and VHO for under $100, also new.  So, I think it depends on what you're looking for.  Sure, you can get an expensive pendant with MH, but if one looks at the ATI and Sunlight Supply all-T5 pendants, they're pretty expensive as well.  This is why I started this post- ARE T5 systems cost competitive with VHO (and even MH) now?  Let's see some good numbers before I make any claims.  I like the shimmer from MH and will stick to MH as the main light source for now, but the jury is still out on whether or not I'll stick to VHO supplements. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2007 at 9:21am
Again, I don't think anything is as cheap as vho.
But all the people growing corals for a living are using halides.
Adam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaggydoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2007 at 9:55am
Corey in my situation the t5 were cheaper hands down. The footprint of my tank allowed me to put in 4 retros for 110 each bringing the grand total to 440 and again that included bulbs (which I then replaced but that is personal preference). MH new would have been over 600 for two pendants with VHO or T5 supplements. When you get into complete lighting systems for either t5 or MH you are going to be looking at probably a couple extra hundred bucks either way.

Then again t5 has longer bulb life (when bulbs are actively cooled), less wattage, less heat into tank, all these factors including lower initial cost made my decision to go with t5. I have not seen any nice tanks with all VHO so I never really considered it as an option, maybe I should have but I just didn't bump into any examples of tanks I really liked with only VHO. Great supplementation no doubt but for a complete lighting choice I wasn't sold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GARFVolunteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2007 at 12:08am
I hope someday to have a small scale coral farm.  When I do, I will be using 250 watt 65K bulbs to grow out the SPS frags.   Before they are shipped they will be placed under VHOs for a couple of weeks to color up and look good...
 
If I want SPS coral to grow fast, I use 65K MH along with good current and water conditions.  If I want them to look nice, I replace the MH with the vastly superior VHO...
 
Thanks,
 
Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2007 at 10:23am
Scott- I agree.
Also... for the record... I think the best tanks I've ever seen were vho tanks.
Adam
ps- yes, I know Scott will use that line for all eternity
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corey Price Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2007 at 11:21pm
I guess my point is that if T5's with reflectors can compare with VHO's, then why not use them instead of the VHO's?  Don't get me wrong- I love my actinic VHO's... I love the shimmer from MH systems, and I have to admit- my tank corals grew better under the AB 10k bulbs I had without actinics, and I hear Iwasaki 6.5k bulbs really crank out the usable light. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaggydoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2007 at 1:50am
Well I have to admit my corals grow better under my t5 than my 250w ab 10k.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2007 at 11:20am
Don't listen to Adam.  The Indians like to call him "Man who speaks with a crazy tongue", or "Crazy Talk" for short.
Jake Pehrson

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2007 at 11:22am
Oh geez, if that ain't a pot calling a kettle black.
Don't listen to Jake, he hasn't had a tank in years.
 
Adam
(I'll admit the tank he had 7 years ago was cool)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corey Price Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2007 at 1:18pm

I thought Jake had a 55. 

Aaron,  I would agree with Adam- it's all relative and depends upon your tastes and setup, so what works for me may not work for you, etc.  So are you at all affiliated with T5 bulb makers like Sylvania, GE, etc? Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaggydoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2007 at 2:14pm
Corey - I do own some stock.... nah I just am a fan of t5.  I definitely agree that 95% of lighting choice boils down to personal preference.  I still think t5 is the most cost effective choice.  But maybe I'm just telling myself that to justify the system I now have and love ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sshm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2007 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Adam Blundell Adam Blundell wrote:

Well we can play with the par meter hopefully soon.  I'm stuck in the lab quite a bit right now.
Yep halides seem to be cheaper... that is why the coral growers use them and not fluorescents (sunlight is cheaper than halide, and also frequently used).  I'm sure if fluores were cheaper that is what they'd be using.

 

Adam


You certainly have a point there. An intense MH on a light rail is far more cost effective and gets the job done that any other light system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corey Price Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2007 at 1:14pm
Okay, not to beat a dead horse, but Scott- have you seen anything on a comparison yet?
 
Here's an idea- eight or ten T5HO (or 6 to 8 T12 VHO) lights with one 150w DE MH on a 6' tank- still have the shimmer, but you would get the coloration from the main lights.  Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeffras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2007 at 1:19pm
How deep is the hood? I have 8 t5ho bulbs on my 150g and there is absolutely no room for a mh. If I wanted mh I would probably only be able to run 4 t5ho bulbs.
Jeff Rasmussen

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeffras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2007 at 1:35pm
Also, one of the problems with t5ho is bulb length and availability. In order to stay where the bulb selection is the best you really have to go with the 48" bulbs. On a 6' tank this means you have to have some creative lighting.

On my 6' tank I have 8 t5ho in the center and a mh light on each end. I get great growth and still get shimmer. But after seeing them together I  am starting to look for alternatives to the mh. IMO, they just don't put out the same quality of light (maybe because I can't afford to swap bulbs every 6 months). I prefer the t5ho light.
Jeff Rasmussen

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2007 at 4:00pm
Arguing which is better, T5 or VHO is like arguing which is better, Chevy or Ford.  Everyone's right and everyone's wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyscer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2007 at 6:08pm
People say that T5's run cooler than VHO? I recently borrowed Corey's VHO setup and have it running right next to my T5 setup. After all of my lights had been on for a couple of hours I felt the T5 bulb and then the VHO bulb. There is a distinct heat difference. The T5 is much hotter. Only thing I can think is that the T5 has a smaller diameter so the heat is more concentrated. But even at that I would have to say that the T5 runs a little hotter than VHO. I'm going to try to order a T5 UV Actinic bulb this week to compare side-by-side with the VHO UV bulb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2007 at 6:38pm
I've had the opposite experience. IMO VHO runs much hotter than T5HO. Anybody else experience this?
 
Mike


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