Secrets of solving algae problems
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3033
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Topic: Secrets of solving algae problems
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Subject: Secrets of solving algae problems
Date Posted: July 20 2004 at 11:27am
Do you have algae problems or just a small area of problem algae? Describe the problem here and the WMAS Message Board will help you.  In other words, learn to keep it from becoming like this: and if this is what you want it to look like: Turn this:  into this:
These pics are of the same rock. The hair algae was so bad for so long that the coralline algae and any coral had completely disappeared. The second pic shows the LR cleaned in a couple weeks and now has a chance to have beautiful pink and purple Coralline algae and coral repopulate it.
>Edit 12/16/07< The point regarding pre-emptive algae control in a reef aquarium is to employ herbivores in sufficient quantity to combat any and all algae problems. Unfortunately, most new hobbyists don't realize the need for snails, hermits, Emerald Crabs, Peppermint Shrimp, Sea Cucumbers and the like, until it's altogether too late. When a nuisiance algae bloom is in full force is not the time to say, "Oh, I guess I need to add more snails and hermit crabs!"  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Replies:
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: July 20 2004 at 11:38am
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Mark, I think your pics are backwards. I like the first pic more than the second. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: acerob
Date Posted: July 20 2004 at 11:50am
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Adam, you must really like hair algae. If it was GSP, I would second your motion. ------------- Highland, UT 12g Nano 90g Reef |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 20 2004 at 11:51am
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Adam is a true nature boy.
That's something I've realized too. There is little bare rock on the reef. If it doesn't have algae it's got coral! Of course the pic on the right is shortly after we conquered the algae. The owner actually scrubbed that rock with a brush (underwater in the tank), before the natural methods had fully cleaned it. If he hadn't done that it might have still had a polyp or two on it!  I'm hoping, in time, to get a third pic of the same rock covered with coralline algae and a new polyp or two!------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Jamison
Date Posted: July 20 2004 at 11:54am
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That's not GSP Adam. I could get you some gorgreous frags of hair algea if you really want it. They're free. ------------- Educate. Inspire. Conserve. http://[email protected] |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: July 20 2004 at 12:13pm
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only a few of my rocks look as bad as the one on the left. I took them out and srubbed of as much as i could. last night I also added 2 500gal/h powerheads to increase the flow while i was running a diatomis earth filter to get as much of the junk in water. I also started running some phosgaurd 2 days ago. It makes me nervous becaue I have to move the tank again in 4 months when the house is done and I really do not want to battle this problem again. I am also getting alot of red slime algea. I have approx 200 # of live rock 100# of live sand fish include naso tang, blue tang, bar goby, lawnmower blenny,2 tankraised perc clowns, 5 green cromis, 2 damsels. coral includes small frags of frogspawn,hammer, large xenia that grows like a weed,multiple shooms, gsp, and 2 large leathers. There is also approx 20 turbo snails 50+ small blue hermits. Sorry for the lengthy message but I jeust wanted you know what Im dealing with ------------- Riley Herriman |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 21 2004 at 10:49am
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RWK2002, In another thread you asked about ChemiClean. Lots of people have used it, but in my opinion, it is not good for the tank. There are a lot of organisms supposed to be growing in the aquarium. 99% of them are good while 1% are bad. Chemical treatments kill the good with the bad.
The best mothods for controlling algae are natural methods. And there are lots of natural methods that work. For Red Slime Algae, which is Cyanobacteria (for good reading, search this MB for "cyano") there are several things that help it grow. 1) The first thing to look at is feeding. If you stop or seriously cut back on the amount of food, the cyano should disappear within a week. It would be good to know how much, what foods and how often you feed the tank, but while you are getting back to us with that info, try this: Stop feeding for two days then feed half the usual amount for at least a week. 2) There are other sources of food for cyano besides fish food. The type, quantity and source of LR and LS can be a factor. Do you have a pic of the tank that you could post here? If not, please describe the LR and the 100 lbs. of LS. 3) another thing is the lighting. Please tell us what your tank has. Cyano seems to grow better in lower light, though it may be that aquariums with lower light also have slower water circulation. 
4) Circulation is an important item to consider and is first on some hobbyists list of factors. What kind of pumps, gph, etc. and how is the water stream(s) directed? Changing or increasing water flow has helped prevent cyano growth in some tanks. Looking forward to your responses. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: July 21 2004 at 11:48am
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Thank you for your reply. As far as feeding goes I very well could b over feeding I will take your advise and stop feeding for 2 days and ten cut down, should I still hang seaweed in the tank for the tang during this period. I now ussualy feed 1 small cube of blood worms and 1 small cube of either mysis or brine . The live rock is about 100# the dry lace rock from Utah, 30# of dry araganite base rock, and about 80# of various live rock from different lfs. Sand is 100# of southdown and 20# of live sand from lfs. Lighting is provided from 384 watts of powercompact and 110 watts of helios actinic. Circulation is provide by 2 500 gal/h powerheads and the 900+gal/h return pump. The fish loadon the tank is provided above + 2 royal grammas that I forgot. Thanks in advance for any additional advice ------------- Riley Herriman |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 21 2004 at 1:08pm
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Absolutely no supplemental food "0" The lace rock can be a source of phosphate which helps algae flourish. I've seen too many lace rocks covered with maroon colored cyano. Where did the Aragonite rock come from? Your aquarium has 14 carnivorous fish(Royal Grammas counted twice for good reason) and only 2 herbivorous fish!  (Blue Tangs don't count. Generally, they are louzy herbivores.) Here's the link: http://www.utahreefs.com/SeaStar/SeaStarJunePrint.pdf - http://www.utahreefs.com/SeaStar/SeaStarJunePrint.pdf You could pick up some useful info from the June 2001 Sea Star Online. The article is titled Herbivores vs. Carnivores. The most important part of maintaining a healthy and beautiful reef aquarium is learning to understand the balance between all it's living inhabitants and their food supply. (One of the reasons saltwater is so fascinating is because of the diversity and amount of life, from Bacteria to Tang to Mantis Shrimp.  ) For example, snails are some of the most useful herbivores an aquarium can have. Twenty 1" snails in a 20-30 gal. well lit aquarium is a good number and will usually eat algae as fast as it grows. Starvation could occur if those same 20 snails were in a 10 gallon tank. If lighting is reduced, algae growth slows and herbivores get really hungry If lighting is increased or their number decreases because of death, the algae will increase. A new tank may have little algae at first and a few snails seem to be doing a fine job, but if it is well lit and additional snails are not added, the algae will increase. Understanding this major concept and using it in the maintenance of a reef aquarium will turn an ordinary tank owner into a true reef aquarium hobbyist. BTW, one hermit crab for every two snails is a good rule-of-thumb ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: lex0219
Date Posted: January 16 2005 at 5:06pm
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ok i have a 10 gal nano with 15 pbls of live rock some coral 3 hermits 2 snails 3 chromis which will soon be gone and the tank is coverd with hair algea i feed 10 brine every other day and keep my 96 watt corallife on 10-13 hours a day.one last thing PLEASE HELP ME!
alexander.j.goodwin
ps...i get the feeling that some of you guys are shuning me why is this ------------- "I will search until i find my happily ever after"-renee tanks 10 gal dwarf 30 gal fw 10 gal nano reef 12 gal nano cub The Air Force is where it is! |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: January 16 2005 at 6:01pm
 Mark how about bryosis (i cant spell)? How do you get rid of that? and also valonia? ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: January 16 2005 at 7:31pm
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Alex- Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: lex0219
Date Posted: January 16 2005 at 8:23pm
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30 for a 10 gal? ------------- "I will search until i find my happily ever after"-renee tanks 10 gal dwarf 30 gal fw 10 gal nano reef 12 gal nano cub The Air Force is where it is! |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: January 16 2005 at 11:37pm
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Yes, I buy 50 of each for my 30 gal, and I'm cheap. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: January 17 2005 at 12:03am
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How badly do you want to get rid of the hair algae? Have you read this? http://www.garf.org/ugly.html - Ugly Green-Haired Mermaid After reading that, Adams post should make sense.
You feel shunned? I'm guessing that most if not all of us feel uncomfortable with being a counselor/therapist, especially when the purpose of this forum is reefkeeping. We hope to help you with your aquarium and some of us badly wish we could help with your personal life, but being in another state makes that almost impossible. We are all friends here and many of us get together at least once a month. We do care about you and are sorry that the distance separating us prevents us from getting to know you better and being able to be closer friends. If you want more help after you read about the Ugly Green-Haired Mermaid, please read the February 2002 Sea Star Online to help you get started with controlling that bad algae. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: lex0219
Date Posted: January 17 2005 at 12:06am
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i have not posted anything personal latly have i ------------- "I will search until i find my happily ever after"-renee tanks 10 gal dwarf 30 gal fw 10 gal nano reef 12 gal nano cub The Air Force is where it is! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: January 17 2005 at 12:26am
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We are answering you now, are we not? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: lex0219
Date Posted: January 17 2005 at 11:20pm
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i only wanted to know so you could help me with my REEF TANK ------------- "I will search until i find my happily ever after"-renee tanks 10 gal dwarf 30 gal fw 10 gal nano reef 12 gal nano cub The Air Force is where it is! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: January 18 2005 at 11:33am
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Lex0219, We've given you some ideas. What are you going to try, to control that algae? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: lex0219
Date Posted: January 18 2005 at 8:42pm
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28 hermits 4 snails ------------- "I will search until i find my happily ever after"-renee tanks 10 gal dwarf 30 gal fw 10 gal nano reef 12 gal nano cub The Air Force is where it is! |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: January 18 2005 at 10:56pm
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Sounds okay, but like I said, I'd have about 2 snails per gallon as a minimum. You may also want to try just pulling the algae out by hand. Third option- grow a more desirable type of algae to compete with the hair algae. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: January 19 2005 at 5:42am
I'm curious. How did you come up with those numbers? Have you read those articles I suggested? Snails are more important than Hermit crabs. This is a ~10 gallon tank, is that right? How long is the hair algae and how much rock is it covering? Can you post a pic? I'm pretty sure we need to revise the numbers to something like 20 snails and 5-10 hermits and watch how they do for a week. Then, in addition to answering the questions above, later in the week, come back here and tell us what is happening. Okay!? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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lex0219 wrote:Posted By: lex0219
Date Posted: January 19 2005 at 6:38pm
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well in my tank so far i have 3 snails 7 hermits but i will get more snails the algea is covering about 1/2 to 1/3 of the rock about 1/2 - 1 inch long no camra no pic sorry i check this site 1-4 times in 2 days so "i'll be back" and check my other post k o and i will get more snails if u think it is better ------------- "I will search until i find my happily ever after"-renee tanks 10 gal dwarf 30 gal fw 10 gal nano reef 12 gal nano cub The Air Force is where it is! |
Posted By: smatney
Date Posted: January 19 2005 at 6:42pm
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Hey Lex - Mark's reason is because Snails eat plants (herbivores) and crabs eat meat (carnivores). (Sounds like a song..and little lambs eat ivy). So...crabs won't do much for the algae, just the excess food that's feeding the algae and your fish and corals. ------------- Susan Matney Farmington, UT |
Posted By: j's55
Date Posted: January 19 2005 at 7:05pm
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If you do get more snails get difrent kinds to. some
eat diferent algae than others. ------------- Josh Zorn 45G reef lots of tropical plants Cell it 910 3924 |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: January 20 2005 at 12:33pm
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I wish there was a way to educate folks and have them listen, understand and follow the advice so they would be able to avoid algae problems from the start.
It's not difficult but takes time and patience. Of course experience is a good teacher. If you set up a saltwater aquarium, you need to learn and prepare early for algae control. The ways to control algae are: - Know what nutrients are going into the aquarium from water, fish food, excretions(fish poop and pee) and dieing organisms (new LR) - Learn about the family of algae because it is the #1 consumer of nutrients and perhaps the #1 group of organisms in the saltwater/reef aquarium. - learn the difference between a carnivore and an herbivore and how to achieve balance of the two to control algae which leads to a healthy and [almost always] beautiful aquarium. We may get started in the hobby because we like a particular fish or coral, for me it was the firefish goby that captured my imagination, but to continue in the hobby, we all eventually must learn how to maintain the aquarium as a whole. After all, this is our little personal part of our planets ecosystem. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 01 2005 at 8:48pm
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Bumped for those that may need to know this info. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Corey Price
Date Posted: June 23 2005 at 2:03pm
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Ok, I've got reddish-brown algae growing all over my refugium walls instead of macroalgae. No real skimmer yet. No macroalgae yet. So why is my rock upstairs in the main tank so clean? Is it because of the algae growing like mad downstairs? It's thick enough that I can't see in the refugium from the side. The sun does hit it in the evening since I don't have blinds down there yet. I have 4 blue-legged hermits from Adam's rock, a couple snails, and about 30 lbs of his LS, together with some hitchiker mushrooms, hitchiker zenia, and a bunch of tiny featherduster worms all over (not to mention 20 tiny brown starfish I've plucked out after reading about them). Well, clean is relative. It's got a healthy growth of about 1/4" long brown algae hair everywhere except where the hermits pick. Corralines are showing up on the tops of some of the rocks, though. Am I on track? Should I get some macroalgae, wait another week or two, and get some herbivorous snails? The tank is 5 weeks old, running MH about 7 hrs, has 170 lbs LR, sand, etc. |
Posted By: Brad A.
Date Posted: June 23 2005 at 11:58pm
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I have an easier suggestion to control algae.
Get a big skimmer, if that doesnt work add ozone, that will work! A reef tank is a box of water, it is not the ocean! (even though we may like to think "oh, I'm recreating the reef in my living room"...NOT) |
Posted By: Biodork
Date Posted: June 24 2005 at 11:32am
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Mark, thanks for starting the thread. I obviously need many more snails and hermits than I have. The things is, I never see any of them eating the algea. They totally ignore it. The snails seem to die (those turbos you gave me are gone). What else would cause snail death? pH seems ok . . . I'm just afraid to buy more snails - worried they will also die. Some things I've done so far (the green hair algea is maybe 10% of that photo you posted): increase circulation, decrease lighting time (only 6 hours per day), decrease feeding, buy more crabs (including two emeralds that seem to be doing a good job so far), buy more snails (tried a queen conch but it is now also dead), doing very large water changes every weekend (last two weekends, filtered water from lfs), moved tank from office to home and away from windows, added phosphosorb stuff in filter area My current plan is to continue the above and add more hermits every weekend (like 3-4 per weekend), and possibly more snails (depending on replies here). |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 27 2005 at 12:09am
I know of many reef tanks that utilize a good skimmer and ozone but still have algae problems. No one thing is effective in all situations, but I have found that patiently working on the different variables in a combination of ways will effectively resolve all problems. Curtailing the input and increasing the output of nutrients, while simultaneously modifying light energy and circulation have always worked for me. The trick is knowing how to do this. It typically requires a phone conversation or a visit. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: June 27 2005 at 12:13am
Sounds to me like it needs those two items right now, before the algae gets out of control. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 8:49am
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Bump ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 2:33pm
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Mark, what do you think the best Tang would be for control of algae? I also have an out break of bubble algae! What would take care of that? ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 2:37pm
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Bubble algae- mythrax (emerald) crabs. Algae- I don't know. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 7:21pm
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Any hungry Tang will take care of most algae. The hard part is how much it hurts to let all the fish in the tank get that hungry. Most people can't do it. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: October 30 2005 at 7:57pm
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You know that I can't let any fish starve! So what now? ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 5:09am
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I've had fw fish that lived two weeks before I resumed feeding. Fish in your reef can go a month without feeding and still be okay. Can you try this? For six days, reduce the amount you feed by half. Then, on day 7, stop feeding and wait and watch. If, during days 7-10, they don't start to graze on the nusiance algae, I'll eat my hat. Call me as soon as you see a fish eating some problem algae. btw how is the S. doliatus? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 6:25am
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It's doing great but it likes to nip at my yellow zoo's! ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 8:08am
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Ahhh, that's where you can train it with a stick. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 8:28am
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How would you train it with a stick? ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: October 31 2005 at 8:54am
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When the fish even looks sideways at the polyps, scare it off with the stick (you might have to leave something open so that you can poke the stick down into the tank. This works best when used right from the first time you saw it nip. It will work though if you keep at it. It just takes a little more time and patience. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: December 26 2005 at 12:24pm
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bump ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 27 2007 at 7:15pm
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bump ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: superman1981
Date Posted: November 27 2007 at 9:11pm
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Hey Mark, I have a random question for you, I'm not sure if this fits here in this thread, but what the heck... I got probably 50 lbs of Utah Rock the other day that I'm planning on using for my 20 and 125 that I'm in the process of setting up. The rock is "live" it came from a tank. The person I got the rock from hadn't pressure washed it before putting it in his tank, so consequently it is covered in moss (not quite algae but close enough) most of it is really soft and could be scrubbed of really easily, but I'm not sure I'll be able to get it all off. Will snails/crabs eat the remaining moss, will it rot and cause ammonia problems in my tanks, or will I be fine as long as I get most of it off? I could go pressure wash all of it, but I'm pretty sure that will kill anything beneficial that is still living in it. Thanks, Tim ------------- Sure you are, you are Crappy Reef Club Member #1 -Chk4tix 6 gal nanocube 65 gal http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=78639&title=tims-65-gallon-build" rel="nofollow - build thread |
Posted By: john hill
Date Posted: November 27 2007 at 9:20pm
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mark i read some of the stuff and found the mexican crabs and stuff can i order them ? or was that an old busness that is no longer up and running ------------- out with the large and in with the nano |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 28 2007 at 10:02am
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you have pm ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: jaschall
Date Posted: March 19 2010 at 11:49pm
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Bump for some
Good info, a must read if you are having algae problems.
Thank you Mark for all the great information you have shared with us all.
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