WMAS Discussion Forum : And suddenly the whole frag

WMAS Discussion Forum : And suddenly the whole frag http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Wed, 10 Jun 2026 22:50:01 +0000 Sun, 29 Jan 2012 20:16:24 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.03 360 www.utahreefs.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=53228 <![CDATA[WMAS Discussion Forum]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/1by1.gif http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ <![CDATA[And suddenly the whole frag : Well said! I have experiences...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=448738&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#448738 Author: Deluxe247
Subject: 53228
Posted: January 29 2012 at 8:16pm

Well said! I have experiences similar problems with the few acro frags I have in my LPS and Soft coral-dominant tank. I rund carbon, but haven't always been very dilligent at removing/replacing it when it gets old. Old carbon (older than 6 weeks) can cause, or aggravate other problems.]]> Sun, 29 Jan 2012 20:16:24 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=448738&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#448738 <![CDATA[And suddenly the whole frag : I'm sorry, but it looks pretty...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=446461&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#446461 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 53228
Posted: January 12 2012 at 9:56pm

I'm sorry, but it looks pretty certain to me like the many leather coral and other soft coral in the tank ganged up and caused the demise of the Acro. When a leather retracts/shrinks, it let's loose with a whole lotta problem causing chemicals. Acro's and all SPS coral have their own chemicals that bother other coral, including other SPS, but it sounds like in your tank the Acro was way outnumbered by the sheer volume (not number) of leather coral. Leather are the worst for this because they grow fast and soon overtake because of their size or the volume of their population.

The Problem
It's called Alelopathy; the chemical warfare that coral engage in to keep other coral from moving in to their territory. Unfortunately, in our small tanks they are all in the same small territory. The chemical laden water just goes around and around and never leaves. Water changes don't help much. A 10% water change reduces the amount of killing chemicals by only 10%. Larger water changes are a pain, create other problems, and are uneconomical.

The Solution
All reef tanks should run AC(activated carbon) for 2 weeks per month. AC removes a whole lotta chemicals from the water that skimming and algae growth cannot remove. Used to be, before we found out that we should run AC periodically, that there were soft coral tanks and stony coral tanks but mixed tanks didn't do so well. The regular periodic use of AC has changed that.
Just a bridal veil material bag of a handful or two of AC in a high flow area, ideally set over or next to a screened pump intake is all it takes. Pelletized AC is just as useful as granulated because of it's porosity. It also stays easier inside 50 cents worth of bridal veil material gathered loosely and wrapped together with an elastic at the top. Too tightly packed does not allow water to flow past all the pellets.

Hope this helps. Smile

]]> Thu, 12 Jan 2012 21:56:36 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=446461&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#446461 <![CDATA[And suddenly the whole frag : I agree. I had one acro go bad...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=446364&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#446364 Author: rufessor
Subject: 53228
Posted: January 12 2012 at 11:43am

I agree. I had one acro go bad and tried fragging it too close to the problem, and it just kept getting worse. I have found that if you cut off what appears to you to be the dead part, you might end up with algae growing where the coral was cut (i.e. if you just cut off the "dead" part) and I found that was certain death as it means that the flesh is NOT coming back and the algae is growing on skeleton. I think you need to cut out a big part of whatever is live- well back from what you think is dying, dip it, mount it and hope for the best. For me, just cutting out the parts that were going bad solved nothing, get a live part off, even if it means seriously dissecting it down to pieces, and mount everything living, keep them apart and hope for the best.

I have not (thankfully) yet had to do this again and I ended up loosing the whole things on two corals that were doing this at about the same time (I was in a Nano at the time and it was summer and I think it got hot and that was the start of my problem). But I think I have learned and my experience jives with what has been posted. You need to get serious about pulling a core living part of the coral away from the rest, and then cross your fingers.

AND it never hurts to put fresh carbon in, change the water a bit more than normal, etc etc. If you know its something in the water from a test that came way up then thats even more important.

]]> Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:43:58 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=446364&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#446364 <![CDATA[And suddenly the whole frag : Cut into the living flesh. I have...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=444130&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#444130 Author: DLindquist
Subject: 53228
Posted: December 22 2011 at 9:12am

Cut into the living flesh. I have rarely if ever been able to save the Acro frags from RTN otherwise. ]]> Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:12:09 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=444130&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#444130 <![CDATA[And suddenly the whole frag : DLindquist wrote:Even fragging...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=444129&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#444129 Author: russianrick
Subject: 53228
Posted: December 22 2011 at 9:08am

DLindquist wrote:

Even fragging won't guarantee survival. However it will greatly increase your chances. In the event it happens again, make sure you cut well above the effected area. Dipping your cut pieces in iodine will also help fight off further infection. Make sure this is done in a separate container / outside the aquarium.

When you say to cut well above the affected area, do you mean cut into the living area or make sure not to cut any living flesh?
]]> Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:08:06 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=444129&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#444129 <![CDATA[And suddenly the whole frag : Even fragging won't guarantee...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=444099&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#444099 Author: DLindquist
Subject: 53228
Posted: December 21 2011 at 9:18pm

Even fragging won't guarantee survival. However it will greatly increase your chances. In the event it happens again, make sure you cut well above the effected area. Dipping your cut pieces in iodine will also help fight off further infection. Make sure this is done in a separate container / outside the aquarium. ]]> Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:18:27 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=444099&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#444099 <![CDATA[And suddenly the whole frag : I had never heard of (R|S)TN until...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=444024&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#444024 Author: russianrick
Subject: 53228
Posted: December 21 2011 at 10:47am

I had never heard of (R|S)TN until now, and it was definitely RTN from what I have seen. The soft coral that was next to it actually did more than just shrivel up its polyps; it changed color a bit and was a little droopy. It was the first time I have seen such behavior. Would fragging slow/stop RTN or is it pretty hopeless once it starts?
]]> Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:47:00 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=444024&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#444024 <![CDATA[And suddenly the whole frag : Bleaching and RTN look different...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=443959&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#443959 Author: bstuver
Subject: 53228
Posted: December 20 2011 at 6:47pm

Bleaching and RTN look different as well. I have had RTN which you will notice it starts in one spot and rapidly progresses along the coral. If it bleaches it normally does it all in one. I have a purple acro that bleached because of my LED's but you could still see the polyps extend and it is now regaining color. RTN will not regain color once it's gone it's gone.]]> Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:47:19 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=443959&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#443959 <![CDATA[And suddenly the whole frag : It would surprise me if the dyeing...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=443947&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#443947 Author: DLindquist
Subject: 53228
Posted: December 20 2011 at 5:19pm

It would surprise me if the dyeing acro was the cause of the leathers retracting their polyps as this is a common occurrence for most softies.

I guess there are many classifications of "bleaching" but usually it's a case of RTN. Rapid (or Slow) Tissue Narcosis. Rarely will the coral simply "recover and retake the dead parts". Many things in this hobby are still trial and error. I do not profess to having all the right answers but simply speak from experience. Next time I would suggest fragging the piece. Feel free to leave the remaining areas of the coral in place and see if it recovers.

Carbon will definitely help with biological warfare as this is a soft corals main defense in protecting their patch of land.

]]> Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:19:15 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=443947&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#443947 <![CDATA[And suddenly the whole frag : A leather coral right next to...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=443935&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#443935 Author: russianrick
Subject: 53228
Posted: December 20 2011 at 4:08pm

A leather coral right next to it retracted all of its polyps as did another leather of a different type that was about half way across the tank from the acro, but in the direct path of a current that was drawn from the area near the acro. Both of the leathers recovered completely after about 3 days after the acro was completely dead.

I would have fragged the acro if it were not that someone on the forum recommended not to frag a bleaching coral since it could recover and retake the dead parts. I'm not running carbon right now, but would it help with cases of biological warfare?
]]> Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:08:39 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53228&PID=443935&title=and-suddenly-the-whole-frag#443935