WMAS Discussion Forum : Problem with ich, I think http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Fri, 10 Jul 2026 19:16:10 +0000 Tue, 17 Apr 2012 11:52:50 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.03 360 www.utahreefs.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=55795 <![CDATA[WMAS Discussion Forum]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/1by1.gif http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ <![CDATA[Problem with ich, I think : Ich can infest the tank and...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461880&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461880 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 55795
Posted: April 17 2012 at 11:52am

Ich can infest the tank and every fish can get it and die, wrasses included. Some fish we call "Ich Magnets" because the parasite loves their body. These are the Blue Tang and Powder Tangs. Something about the body of Tangs seems to be an ideal place for Ich to live. Unfortunately it also can infest the gills of most if not all fish.

The Ich Parasite lives for a long time in an aquarium without fish.
It only takes a drop of water to reintroduce the parasite in one of it's forms. A single parasite might survive on a fish even after being treated in a hospital tank and it only takes one to produce 20 more. It can come in on LR, Coral or anything wet. That's why I strongly encourage the gaining of knowledge about:
1-  what makes a healthy tank in which fish feel very happy and
2-  to find and use a workable Garlic Oil for five days after introducing every new fish and periodically thereafter(even after changing things in the tank that stressed them).

LR needs room all around it for water to flow so positioning of the rock can make a big difference, especially in the long term. An example of the aquascaping I am speaking of is in the pics below. I believe there is a Reefkeeping Tip about the "Tripod" method of placing LR. Rock is not really placed this way in the ocean but for our tanks it makes them much healthier places to live because we don't always have the advantage of wave and current action moving water all over. The Octopus is definitely a step in that direction though.

Sand needs to be refreshed. More important than vacuuming is to stir it up like a big ocean storm from time to time. Vacuuming can be done, but I recommend only once or twice a year in selected small areas only, where detritus is most commonly building up. Stirring the sand, on the other hand, is a very beneficial action. It is just the simple action of using a stick or your hand poked and wiggled down to the glass and stirred to bring detritus out into the water where all inverts (coral, worms, bugs, feather dusters, clams, shrimp, fish, etc.) can feast on it. Yes, they all find something delicious from the stirred sand. Stir small spots every week or two to treat your tank. Smile

These are pics of a tank I ran for a few years in St. George, UT





Edited by Mark Peterson - April 17 2012 at 1:01pm]]> Tue, 17 Apr 2012 11:52:50 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461880&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461880 <![CDATA[Problem with ich, I think : Ok after reading about garlic...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461799&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461799 Author: Akira
Subject: 55795
Posted: April 16 2012 at 10:08pm

Ok after reading about garlic uv etc bla bla bla . I have battled ich but only with my tangs. I dose garlic on a  regular basis and run my uv about 1-2 weeks a month. I have had no issues until i removed all my rock and restructured it , so It makes me believe it was from me turning the sand up and freaking out my hippo , my yellow has no signs . They had no place to hide and a lot of detriment in the water. So to me the only thing that really changed was the intro of new fish coral etc , if u didnt have the parasite u do now and must watch what you do when adding new fish .......also ich is a 28 day life cycle if i recall right and a 6 line is rather hearty and i have only ever had my tangs get it .]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:08:52 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461799&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461799 <![CDATA[Problem with ich, I think : I do have a closed loop on...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461773&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461773 Author: eldiente
Subject: 55795
Posted: April 16 2012 at 9:01pm

I do have a closed loop on my tank with an octopus wave maker. It is not in the pics as I was cleaning out precipitation when I took the pics. I do have a lot of rock on the sand as it seems most of my corals like it down near the sand and so I place them there with the intention of eventually moving them up, but never getting it done. I will move them up slowly so as not to stress the corals too much.
 
The sandbed has been unchanged for along time. I used to do a little gravel vacuuming in small sections, but have not done so for along time. I did buy a bag of Aragamax sand, not the fine sugar size but one size larger to add to my sand bed a section at a time. (I do not have Utah sand handy to me
 
I have read "Reefkeeping Tips below, especially the one called "Secrets of adding new fish, fish training and the Miracle of Garlic Oil" before and follow the new fish, except for the hand delivering the fish, I'm afraid of the scalpels on the tangs cutting me up. I have not used garlic oil when adding a fish and so I will have to do that in the future when I am brave enought to get new fish.
 
How long is the average ich life cycle. Is it always in the water now or will it run its course and then not be a problem?
 
Also I had been told that wrasses don't get ich. Is that 6 line wrasses only, or is that a myth?
]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 21:01:43 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461773&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461773 <![CDATA[Problem with ich, I think : Lighting is good but biofiltration...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461726&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461726 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 55795
Posted: April 16 2012 at 4:14pm

Lighting is good but biofiltration can be improved. Biofiltration is the backbone of a healthy reef tank.
My suggestions regarding creating a more healthy environment in your tank pretty much revolve around water flow, algae growth and the sand bed.

Water flow is best when it's turbulent and can flow all over the place.
- turbulance in this tank can be easily achieved by changing the position and direction of the stream pump powerheads.
- all over flow in this tank can be improved by moving most of the LR from off of the sandbed. This is a change that can done a little at a time.
- if the sand bed has been unchanged for 6 years, it's time for some big storms to roll through.

I'll describe this in more detail later as time permits.
]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 16:14:19 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461726&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461726 <![CDATA[Problem with ich, I think : My wife is on the phone right...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461724&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461724 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 55795
Posted: April 16 2012 at 4:02pm

My wife is on the phone right now so it wouldn't do any good to call me. Embarrassed
The time difference is 4 hours and because I work from home, you may call any time after 10AM Mountain time and up to 2AM your time. Smile

In the Grocery store health food section look for a bottle of Garlic Oil Gel Caps. Don't buy the Odorless stuff, this needs to be stinky Garlic Oil. Poke the capsule with a pin and squeeze 1-2 drops on each frozen cube of fish food. With less fish a full cube is probably too much. Use one drop on the 1/2 cube of frozen meaty food. Do this in a small cup without adding water. Let it thaw and stir it around to allow the thawed shrimp, etc. to marinate in the Garlic Oil. After 5-10 minutes feed small clumps, allowing the fish to eat it up before adding the next small clump.

More Tips coming...also see the Reefkeeping Tips below, especially the one called "Secrets of adding new fish, fish training and the Miracle of Garlic Oil"
]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 16:02:41 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461724&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461724 <![CDATA[Problem with ich, I think : Raising the temperature by only...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461721&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461721 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 55795
Posted: April 16 2012 at 3:41pm

Raising the temperature by only 1 degree doesn't make sense to me.
Raising the temperature to speed up the life cycle by a few days also doesn't make sense to me.
From my experience and many years of observation using Garlic Oil in my own reef tanks and many dozens of other hobbyists tanks, I believe that it works because it bothers the Ich parasite right on the fish. I believe that Garlic Oil eaten by the fish so that it is in their body causes the parasite to jump ship. Garlic Oil in the water is less effective, though it may inhibit the floating parasite stage from landing on the fish. The possible strengthening of the fishes own immune system is a minimal effect. Ich is not a microbe, it's one of the millions of organisms called zooplankton, what I call an invertebrate bug.

As far as gadgets go, a UV Sterilizer helps keep fish free of Ich better than the alternative method of adding Ozone to the water via a Skimmer. But why mess with either of these gadgets if the $5 bottle of 50 stinky garlic gel caps added once every 2-4 weeks keeps fish Ich free!

The method of eliminating Ich by leaving the entire system without fish for 6 weeks and then all the effort that goes into keeping one drop of water with one Ich parasite out of the tank from then on is just too much trouble for me.

I have a number of suggestions for making your system healthier so that fish are healthier and can more effectively withstand any illness and parasite.


Edited by Mark Peterson - April 16 2012 at 3:47pm]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:41:21 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461721&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461721 <![CDATA[Problem with ich, I think : thanks for the info so far....]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461720&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461720 Author: eldiente
Subject: 55795
Posted: April 16 2012 at 3:33pm

thanks for the info so far.  Most of the questions I have asked, I knew the answers to (or what I believe the answer to be). I just wanted to see if there were other answers. As far as garlic, I don't remember the name of the product I used(i'm at work now). I have also used the garlic juice from a jar of minced garlic, really smelled up the whole house. I will have to go find some new garlic tonight, can anyone give me some recommendations besides garlic extreme. I will have to up my temp on the tank. I unplugged the heater during some maintenance a few days ago and forgot to plug it in and my tank got cold at night, 75 or so.

I have read the other threads on the topic, but wanted even more info. As everyone's tanks and conditions are different I thought someone could see something specific for my case. I do have a certain weakness for tangs and I'm afraid I introduced a fish that had it. I just always figured that healthy long term established fish wouldn't be affected as much as they haven't been stressed by too much.  Guess I was wrong. I might look into a UV sterilizer to help avoid outbreaks in the future, any recommendations. I was looking at some on bulkreefsupply.com but it is about $340 and 3 feet long. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/40-watt-260-gallon-emperor-aquatics-smart-uv.html

Mark when is a good time to call, I see that you are in Hawaii now.


Edited by eldiente - April 16 2012 at 3:34pm]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:33:28 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461720&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461720 <![CDATA[Problem with ich, I think : Theres alot of info on here on...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461717&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461717 Author: 1stupidpunk
Subject: 55795
Posted: April 16 2012 at 3:18pm

Theres alot of info on here on how to treat for ich (pics are blurry but looks to be ich to me). Warmer water temperatures will reduce the ichs life span. Soaking your foods in garlic will help with the fishes immune system (and mucous coating i believe). I run my UV 24 hrs a day but i know some people dont like to use UV at all. If all your fish are infected moving them info hospital tanks is a bleak point, and will simply cause alot of stress. If i were you i would turn the heater up to 80, keep them well feed (use some garlic extreme or some similar product with every feeding, even after the ich is gone, your fish will thank you). And if you dont notice improvement in a few days you can try medications. I have used Ich-Attack with great success, it did stress my corals a bit but no livestock has died while i was using it.
]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:18:56 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461717&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461717 <![CDATA[Problem with ich, I think : Good background info and pics....]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461712&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461712 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 55795
Posted: April 16 2012 at 3:03pm

Good background info and pics. Thanks for answering my unspoken questions. Smile
Within the last couple weeks there have been at least 3 of these same discussions here. Have you read those threads?
If you review the Reefkeeping Tip about Garlic Oil, you will see that, if within just a few days, one Garlic Oil product does not eliminate Ich, you must try another. How many different Garlic Oil products have you tried and what are they? Don't worry, If the first doesn't do it, the second usually does. (Please feel free to call me if you would like to take care of this quicker.)

You said, "So my question is why do my fish that I have had for years and have never had a problem are now getting sick? The answer is in what you have been doing:
1- 1.5 years of neglect of a six year old tank
2- recently tried to increase pH by adding chemicals
3- recently added a boat load of fish, including several that are very prone to Ich
4- assuming you only tried one Garlic Oil product, it wasn't the right one for your tank
5- Sea hare died in the tank(?)

At this point don't even think about a Hospital Tank. It will do no good. It will kill the fish to move them.

You also asked, "Would I benifit from a UV Sterilizer, I know that people either love em or hate em."
I know of nobody that hates UV Sterilizers, but there are some people that hate spending money on unneeded equipment. A UV Sterilizer would probably be helpful, though it's almost too late. Those fish could be dead tomorrow. From the pics and what you have said, a UV sterilizer is not needed. Assuming you are open to suggestions/advice, I can describe some no cost improvements to the health of the tank.


Edited by Mark Peterson - April 16 2012 at 3:50pm]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:03:53 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461712&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461712 <![CDATA[Problem with ich, I think : Ich is such a pain to deal with....]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461711&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461711 Author: DLindquist
Subject: 55795
Posted: April 16 2012 at 3:03pm

Ich is such a pain to deal with. You'll probably get lots of advice recommending to feed with garlic. While that could help, I don't believe in the "garlic cure all" With that said, I'll leave the recommendations for others (Reefdup probably has the most usable advice when dealing with diseases and such). To answer your question as to why fish that you've had in your care for years are now dying, you've introduced ich (or what ever disease is killing your fish) with your lattest addition of fish. Now that disease or parasite is running its course. ]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:03:50 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55795&PID=461711&title=problem-with-ich-i-think#461711