http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Sun, 14 Jun 2026 02:21:00 +0000 Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:21:54 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.03 360 www.utahreefs.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=67589 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/1by1.gif http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543945&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543945 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 67589
Posted: November 15 2013 at 1:21pm

Ahh, I see, or at least I believe I see. 

Yes, the N pollution will disappear fast as the feeding is reduced. Actually, Nitrate does not hang around in sand and rock. Once it's processed, it's gone. Ammonia -> Nitrite -> Nitrate -> Nitrogen gas and H2O The great thing about Oolitic sand is that it harbors more bacteria per volume of sand so we need to use much less of it to do the same job as larger particle sand. Oolitic sand because of its small particle size naturally falls to the bottom level of the substrate. In that low O2 area, Oolitic sand is in an ideal environment to harbor a large population of nitrifying bacteria which eat Nitrate, breaking it up into water and Nitrogen gas.

To change the FOWLR into a full reef, try this:
1. vacuum the substrate to remove as much detritus as possible (to avoid problems with disturbing too much of the biofiltration at one time, do weekly vacuuming of different small sections until the entire tank has been completely vacuumed)
2. add Caulerpa and allow it to grow and take over as much as you can handle.( I like the look of Caulerpa and when Tangs are added they absolutely love the environment and will eat it up.) Algae is the fastest Nitrogen consumer I know of. It can clear up N pollution in a couple of days. During emergency pollution situations, illuminating algae 24/7 is essential.
3. Add some Oolitic sand as described above.
4. Use PO4 remover in a small bag in the Refugium. I use Phosguard but I buy it as bulk Activated Alumina. It's much cheaper than GFO, especially because I buy it in bulk. When Activated Alumina, which is very white initially, turns dark tan it's full. Discard and replace. I have enough to share if you want some.

Again, there is no need for a remote bucket of sand, which hardly works anyway, because just a little Oolitic sand on the bottom and algae growing in the display will give the tanks biofiltration the boost it needs.

BTW, the sump could be the ideal place for a "remote dsb". If the sump is not set up with a space for sand, make a holding space by using a small storage container that fits in a sump chamber. Put any amount of Oolitic sand in that storage container and it will do the job without extra pump and a five gal bucket.
*Note: Whenever Oolitic sand blows around, simply place a layer of larger particle sand on top of it or LR rubble or a bunch of Chaeto in the path of the swift water.

Aloha,
Mark
808-345-1049 call/text anytime
]]> Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:21:54 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543945&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543945 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543932&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543932 Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 67589
Posted: November 15 2013 at 12:04pm

Some crazy talk sounds good not a lot of room under the tank, my understanding is, to have a deep sand bed to create a low to no 02 for the de-nitrification. This new tank is a 72 bowfront. With almost 2" of sandbed now and about 100 lbs of live rock, with 20 or so lbs of  rock in the return section of the sump. I am running a large skimmer 24/7 along with probably 10-15% water changes per month. Feeding on the low side of 2-3 cubes per week.

So the 72 was a FOWLR with daily feeding of 2 cubes a day no skimmer and some water changes for two chromis and two clownfish. I will be changing it to full reef as I get the Nitrates and phosphates under control. I am just looking for the best way to achieve that for the least amount of $$. My thought are that as I reduce the input of foods the levels will fall on their own but that there are most likely a lot stored in the rock and sand. So I certainly don't plan on adding more to the system but am looking at reducing these numbers naturally.

That said I am thinking the rdsb will reduce the nitrates naturally and then possibly using phosgard or some algae export to handle phosphates. Possibly in the future removing the rdsb if needed.


Edited by bbeck4x4 - November 15 2013 at 12:07pm]]> Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:04:44 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543932&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543932 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543929&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543929 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 67589
Posted: November 15 2013 at 11:48am

Aloha Brian,

That's some crazy talk. Come on. The worst thing we could do is to encourage hair algae growth anywhere in the system. Sure sometimes we talk about not worrying about a little hair algae or cyano in the Refugium because we would rather have it there than in the display, but to encourage its growth is crazy. Recently I completely remodeled a Refugium where the Hair Algae had grown out of control. It was causing outbreaks of Hair Algae all over the place in the display.

Old sand may not work. Read this thread: http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41514

Rather than a tall bucket of sand, believe me, it would work better to use a 3" - 6" DSB in a larger container like a shallow plastic storage container providing more surface area across the sand.

Okay, let me propose a positive and easy solution rather than being critical of your ideas. Sorry.
Okay, you are trying to reduce Nitrate pollution in a 90 gal where there was no coral, but you would like to add some, right?  It's a misnomer that a FOWLR tank should be treated differently than a reef tank. Those fish come from the reef, right? LR comes from the reef and has invertebrates, bugs and bacteria living on/in it, or it should have. So lets give them the same consideration we would give a regular reef tank. Let's encourage biological filtration the same as in a reef. Let's maintain Alk, Ca and Mg the same as in a reef tank. Of course, fish can live in less favorable conditions, but why should we subject them and their micro-invertebrate tank mates to that? It's not difficult to improve. It's better for them. It's better for us.

Here is a simple change I have suggested to others when they had a Nitrogen pollution problem. It works like a charm. Place Oolitic sand in several places underneath the existing substrate. It's simple and it works extremely well for any marine aquarium. Here is how to add the Oolitic to an existing tank to minimize the dust storm:
1. Rinse the Oolitic sand and leave it wet;
2. Push aside an area of sand large enough to place about a quart of the wet Oolitic sand;
3. Set the container slowly in the water and lower it down to the depression;
4. Slowly pour it into the hole; and
5. Push the existing sand back over to cover the Oolitic sand.
Do this in three or four places and then sit back and watch the N pollution fall to acceptable levels within a week or two.

Biofiltration is my expertise. At your request, I can provide more simple ways to enhance and improve biofiltration.

Mahalo,
Mark


Edited by Mark Peterson - November 15 2013 at 12:02pm]]> Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:48:46 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543929&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543929 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543614&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543614 Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 67589
Posted: November 13 2013 at 11:35am

Old sand would work great.

 I am also exploring the idea of growing hair algae in the sump as a means of exporting that may be cheaper cost wise short of the bulbs. Ultimately I will be dosing Kalk water and running a full reef setup as soon as I can get the nutrient export dialed in. It would be easy to do water changes, but this time around I want to try some different methods and see how well they can work.
]]> Wed, 13 Nov 2013 11:35:03 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543614&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543614 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543608&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543608 Author: JohnnyHeavens
Subject: 67589
Posted: November 13 2013 at 10:23am

So you need live sand or would my bucket of old sand work? (Sand you'd need to rinse)]]> Wed, 13 Nov 2013 10:23:36 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543608&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543608 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543498&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543498 Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 67589
Posted: November 12 2013 at 5:36pm

Just for nitrate reduction Mark, fast stream of water running over it so that nothing can settle into it.  nothing more.My old 90 Gallon tank had a 6" deep sand bed, for this tank I wanted to try the DSB in a bucket and see how well it works, if it doesn't then it will be easy to remove.
]]> Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:36:38 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543498&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543498 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543497&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543497 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 67589
Posted: November 12 2013 at 5:32pm

I don't quite understand what you are suggesting. The link "bucket of sand" goes to an old page where Calfo lauds the DSB. I'm just curious about your why, what and how?
This is just my opinion but I would not fill a 5 gal bucket with Oolitic Sand and expect too much from it.
 > little benefit to an Oolitic DSB over 3"
 > extremely little water exposure in a 5 gal bucket

BTW, I have all the sand you need if you want to come as far north as Murray. We can watch my tanks check out their DSB's and talk reef. (BTW, Dions system and display are awesome. I was there just this week.)

Aloha,
Mark




Edited by Mark Peterson - November 12 2013 at 5:34pm]]> Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:32:11 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543497&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543497 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543392&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543392 Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 67589
Posted: November 11 2013 at 7:35pm

Hmmm, may be worth a trip just to see your tank , just in case though I'll see if there is anyone closer. ]]> Mon, 11 Nov 2013 19:35:29 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543392&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543392 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543385&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543385 Author: Dion Richins
Subject: 67589
Posted: November 11 2013 at 7:11pm

I do. But im a ways up here ;)]]> Mon, 11 Nov 2013 19:11:33 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543385&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543385 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543366&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543366 Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 67589
Posted: November 11 2013 at 5:03pm

Going to try the bucket of sand to reduce the nitrates in what used to be a FOWLR tank, does anyone have about a buckets worth of sand extra around, the Utah Oolitic sand would probably be great for this application.


]]> Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:03:04 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67589&PID=543366&title=lf-bucket-of-sand#543366