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hydro phoenix 
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 Topic: achilles tang
Posted: April 20 2012 at 6:16pm |
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Question, would you or would you not recommend an achilles tang to a new hobbyist? Why or why not?
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recent absurdity..Unicorns have rabies
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DLindquist
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Posted: April 20 2012 at 6:33pm |
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Not a chance. On a side note- what size tank, filtration and flow? Achilles are one of the most beautiful fish and also a much more difficult fish. I would be very surprised if a new hobbyist decided to start with a 180G or larger tank and all the necessary equipment needed to maintain a fish like this, large skimmer, mega flow (vortech's / tunzes) possibly UV.
Edited by DLindquist - April 20 2012 at 6:33pm
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CapnMorgan
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Posted: April 20 2012 at 6:43pm |
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I wouldn't recommend an achilles tang to anyone except the most experienced reefkeepers, and sometimes not even then. I could write pages on why, but the biggest reasons are: the need for a LARGE aquarium, need insane amounts of waterflow, oversized UV and ozone are a must. A preper QT system and a tank full of pre-quarantined livestock. In short well beyond most hobbyists ability to meet all these.
Edited by CapnMorgan - April 20 2012 at 6:45pm
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Steve My Old 180G Mixed ReefCurrently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 20 2012 at 7:26pm |
I don't recommend them to about anyone. That's a super risky fish. Adam
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hydro phoenix
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Posted: April 21 2012 at 7:52am |
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Why is it a super risky fish? Is it tempermental? prone to disease? what disease if so? What makes a reefkeeper experienced? Does it involve years or just knowledge of the basics?
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 21 2012 at 11:36am |
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They die of stress induced disease, like ich. Almost every time within a month.
You'd need a specific set up for them, like quarantine
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hydro phoenix
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Posted: April 21 2012 at 9:56pm |
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what causes the stress? what triggers it?
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BillyC
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Posted: April 21 2012 at 10:09pm |
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This is my wife's favorite fish and we have not gotten it yet because our 120g is MUCH to small for it. What causes the stress? Captivity. Simply swimming and realizing it is surrounded by glass seems to be more than enough to induce a fatal ich outbreak.
If I ever get one, I plan to wait until I have a minimum of a 6' 220g reef tank, 90g quarantine tank, and have strictly quarantined all of my fish from my old tank before placing them into my display tank. And even then, I may just decide to pass on this fish.
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 21 2012 at 10:27pm |
I don't know. It's a tough one. But their chances of survival in a home aquarium are probably worse than any other fish I can think of. But they don't get treated any different than other fish. They aren't "being given stress" or something like that.
Also, they are scaleless fish, like the powder browns, blues, and all the other really tough tangs to keep alive. Their soft flesh is primed for parasites. But these fish in particular are just doomed.
Adam
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hydro phoenix
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 6:51am |
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hmmm...fascinating. Do you know of any reliable sights I can look up to give me more detail? Some thing I could cite in a paper possibly?
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ReefdUp
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 7:01am |
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I'd consider Adam an expert you could cite...seriously. Do a quick "Google Scholar" search...got a bunch of hits on achilles tangs.
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www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
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TSUNAMI
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 7:02am |
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They're certainly a beautiful fish! I've been considering getting one myself, but had no idea... I've had good luck keeping all types of fish thus far. I'm glad I caught this thread, at least I'll be on my game. Thanks!
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 11:28am |
Oh boy... this could be a lengthy process... I'll start with some interesting quotes from Fenner. These are well published and often referenced. I'll also throw them out there because of his involvement with the Hawaii discussions a couple months ago.
Fenner, R. (2001), "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist," T.F.H. Publications. Neptune City, New Jersey.
"As to the touchiness of individual species, the two Powder Tangs- Blue and Brown- the Achilles Tang, and the Clow Surgeon often fail to survive more than three months in typical home aquariums. They look great, but may keel over under standard aquarium conditions." (pg 304)
"Achilles Tangs are, in my opinion, harmed by an aquarist-induced "enviromental disease." Many fish-only systems have their specific gravities manipulated to be lower than the ocean for both valid and questionable reasons: to save money on salt, to control or prevent epizootics, and to increase gas solubility. A. achilles does not appreciate it." (pg 305)
"Tangs are susceptible to the scourges of tropical reef disease, Cryptocaryon and Amyloodinium. They are frequently the first in a tank to show signs of infestation" (pg 308)
I'll just start there for now. I won't be back in the lab until tomorrow and then I'll post more. Also, I'd be careful with those quotes. They sound like something the For The Fishes campaign would use without knowing anything about them. Taken the wrong way it would sound like Bob is against having tangs in aquariums.... which is about the furthest thing from the truth. These are just some points on the challenges and downsides of these fishes.
Adam
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 11:34am |
Michael, S. (2005), "Reef Aquarium Fishes," T.F.H. Publications. Neptune City, New Jersey.
"keeping surgeonfishes in a reef tank is not without some drawbacks. They are susceptible to parasitic infections, especially soon after purchase, and an infestted fish will have to be removed to administer treament." (pg 386)
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Josh95
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 11:37am |
I agree with the achilles posts above entirely, but what about a chevron? and ideas on this one?
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 11:37am |
Want one of my all time favorite quotes?
Mojetta, A. (1993), "The Encyclopedia of Aquarium Fish," Barnes & Noble Books. Milan, Spain.
"[Achilles Tangs] will live happily together with other species. Young individuals are easiest to keep. Keep one fish in a tank of 75 liters (16 1/2 gal) or more with various other species" (pg 68)
OMG... don't even get me started with Mojetta!
Adam
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McClure
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 12:23pm |
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Sounds like the next meeting would be a perfect place to get some of this information as well.
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hydro phoenix
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Posted: April 23 2012 at 6:41am |
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Thank you so much Adam! This helps me understand a bit more as to the "why?" of Achilles Tangs. Some times it helps to know a bit more detail.
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