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JimL
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Topic: Ammonium Chloride Posted: March 25 2004 at 6:48am |
Does anyone know of a test kit for Ammonium Chloride? <<--
(This is a different form of ammonia used to cycle tanks w/o
fish) I have found an old Tetra test kit that will check these
levels, but I am running out of the regents. I haven't seen Tetra
kits at all lately.
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jfinch
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Posted: March 25 2004 at 7:31am |
Any total ammonia test kit would work. Ammonia (NH3) exists in water in two forms, ammonia (NH3) and ammonium (NH4+). The amount of each one is dependent on pH. Just check you kit to ensure that it reads the total (NH3 + NH4) ammonia and you should be fine.
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JimL
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Posted: March 26 2004 at 6:18pm |
thanks Jon
I've bought several tests. It never occured that it would be a
problem to check. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes one that
is supposed to check NH3 and NH4. But.. its doesn't work on
Ammonium Chloride. I also have purchased the Salifert test for
NH4. Still nothing. The only one that reads the ammonia
levels for Ammonium Chloride is the old Tetra test that I 've had
for years. Strange isn't it. Oh well
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jfinch
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Posted: March 26 2004 at 9:06pm |
Well that's just plain wierd. I don't know what to say .
BTW, what are you doing with the ammonium chloride? Fertilizer for a macro tank? Just curious... and where did you get it?
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JimL
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Posted: March 27 2004 at 7:02am |
Actually I'ts the Ammonium Nitrate that is the fertilizer( I think.)
I got my Amm. Chloride from a goat farm in Colorado. It helps
prevent a certain desease that goats get. It comes in a white
crystal form (like sugar).
I am experimenting with the Chloride form (trying to establish
colonies of nitifying bacteria onto filter pads so that new tanks
can be cycled immediately without risking desease like with
some of the other methods.
It's working. But I over-dose everytime without being able to
monitor the ammonia levels.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: March 27 2004 at 7:27am |
Jim, If Ammonium Chloride (NH?Cl?) grows bacteria then I would say it is a fertilizer/nutrient.
I'm very curious. Please tell us why we should use filter pads that have nitrifying bacteria? Aren't there better sources?
Have you any substrate in your tanks? Does it have bacteria?
Do you use copper?
How many gallons of water are running through the DIY Fluidized Bed you told me about?
What is it about Weimers tank that makes you believe it has problems/poisons?
Edited by Mark Peterson
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jfinch
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Posted: March 27 2004 at 7:47am |
OK. But can't you do the same thing by running existing tank water through a filter pad? I would think ammonium chloride (NH4Cl) would make a good plant fertalizer if you didn't have fish in the tank. I think most plants will preferentially uptake ammonia over nitrate...
Back to the orginal topic. Is there anything else in the ammonium chloride? Are you confident that it's actually ammonium chloride?
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JimL
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Posted: March 27 2004 at 4:35pm |
Mark
The Weimers tank had a slight yellow tint to the water, and it
wasn't skimming the oils from off the top. If the water doesn't
cascade, or fall down into the overflow tubes, then the oils are
never removed because they are never skimmed, and don't
make it to the sump and the protein skimmer.
Yellow water is very toxic to all inhabitants of a reef tank.
Water should be crystal clear. This is a bigger problem than
just a water change in my opinion. The oils have to be
skimmed from the top of the water or you will create serious
water quality problems. Agree?
I was wondering if they just dropped the water level and inch
or so, would that cause the water to fall? It's like your bath
water. You won't see the funnel until the water level gets pretty
low. You've seen the tank, what do you think? Any noise (that
the water falling down into the tubes would make) might be
minimized with bio-balls.
But .. I don't like being too critical of anothers tank, especially
one like theirs. It's very nice. I just thought they should know
before things begin to die.
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JimL
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Posted: March 27 2004 at 4:52pm |
Mark
Actually, if the water was dropped just enough to create just
a little better funnelling effect, that would probably solve the
problem. But, we still have the yellow water. I'm not sure that
the skimmer would clear it up.
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jfinch
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Posted: March 27 2004 at 6:43pm |
It sounds like they need a surface skimmer. How is your overflow set up Renee?
Activated carbon should help remove the yellow.
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Carl
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Posted: March 28 2004 at 12:36am |
Um, couldn't the yellow also be attributed to lighting or background? I know, stupid question, but... Also, yellow water also stinks horribly. It's kindof easy to tell if it's a water quality issue.
As for oils on top of the water, how would the be removed from the effluent unless there is a process in place to do so, such as Jon mentioned in skimming. If you pull the free oils (floating) back into the waste stream they could become emulsified depending on what chemical reaction takes place and then they would need to be adsorbed to be removed. Carbon may do this, but there is only so much surface area. Honestly, if one has a leaky pump or something else causing free oils to enter the water table, I would rather manually skim them ( a tupperware container works great) and remove them.
I'm kinda confused. 
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"I believe that forgiving them is God's function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting." - Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: March 28 2004 at 1:44am |
Renee, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you add some strainers to those overflow standpipes to cut down on the noise? And perhaps those strainers are allowing a surface scum to remain and grow. Perhaps DIY strainers with vertical slots could be tried?
The tank has a good skimmer, the coral are doing well according to your description, but the history of the tank needs to be taken into consideration here too.
Renee is such a good sport to let us critique her tank like this.
About 2-3 months ago this aquarium had a huge algae problem. My visit came after some measures (mostly snails) were effectively taken to reduce the algae. Renee tells me that soft algae was covering the entire back of the tank. When I saw the tank, there was only a little left on the back but plenty still on the rock. here are two pics of it then:
It has only been a month since these pics were taken. I understand that that algae is all gone now. It's demise probably yellowed the water and left vegatable oils that are still decomposing via bacteria and exiting via the skimmer and Refugium. According to Renee, the Refugium is growing very well. This is as it should be.
My evaluation is that in time, and with continued attention to harvesting macroalgae from the Refugium, the evidence may all but disappear.
Additionally, some of the color we see in reef aquariums is due to the growth of phytoplankton and some of it is due to the yellowing substances released by macroalga, especially Caulerpa. Carbon can remove some of that color, but other causes, like phytoplankton, are normal and even desired in a reef tank. Phyto is food for coral and microscopic fauna, which in turn are food for coral, mobile inverts and fish, like those beautiful Chalk Basselets.
The statement has often been made that "Proper marine aquarium water should be crystal clear." This is a supposition not supported by the facts of the day. A healthy reef aquarium has to have stuff growing in the water to feed the inhabitants. In the wild, there is a plethora of planktonic organisms. Anyone who has been SCUBA diving on less than a perfect day, of which there are many (days and people  ) can attest to the amount of small life, both actively moving and simply floating, in the water. To enhance that natural life in our aquariums, the WMAS promotes the use of the latest developments in the hobby. Thus, we grow our own reefs.
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JimL
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Posted: March 28 2004 at 6:27am |
A lot of the pollution in our tanks can be hidden by our
lighting. Actinic lighting (especially) will hide the problem.
Whether the yellow tint is really pollution (or not) will prove
itself out one way or the other in time. I think that it is pollution
and that some measures should be taken soon to clear it up.
But... I will hope that I am wrong.
The oil on the surface is definately a problem. It is probably
mostly garlic oil. (oh oh, I have done it now.) Nevertheless,
this is something the Weimers tank shouldn't have because it is
set up to skim the pollution from off the top. It just isn't working
right for some reason.
I alway thought those skimming tubes could telescope up
and down to allow you to set the water level where you want it.
Pieces from the overflow screen might also be removed to
allow the bigger chucks to drain. That mat solve the surface oil
problem too.
I'm sure the problem can be solved. It's probably something
really simple.
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JimL
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Posted: March 28 2004 at 6:44am |
Because scuba divers see murky waters, doesn't justify
pollution in your tanks. In the ocean, the fish to water ratio in
less than (1 neon tetra sized fish - to a 55 gal of water).
Everyone who is complying with this ratio, raise your hand.
That's what I thought.
If pollutants get to strong for ocean fish, they will move
elsewhere. I don't know about your fish, but mine can't do that.
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JimL
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Posted: March 28 2004 at 7:03am |
From my reading, an established colony of nitrifying bacteria
can double in size every 8 hrs, The reason why I have been
growing these Nitrifing colonies on pads is so tanks can be set
up instantly. The pads can be cut to size and placed directly
where you want the colony to grow (like in a mechanical filter.)
I any not satisfied that any product that has been sitting on a
shelf for 6 months ( deprived of oxygen ) can do this. Maybe
one exists but I havent run across it yet.
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Weimers
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Posted: March 28 2004 at 8:07am |
We adjusted our sea swirls to provide a more surface aggitation and within the hour all the scum on the water surface was gone! The scum just kind of crept up on us. JimL gave us some good advise on geting rid of it including a paper towel laid on the surface. Picked it off the water pretty quickly. Renee adjusted the sea swirls while I was at work and by the time I got home, no scum.
Mark, I think the main purpose of the strainers at the top of the downpipes is just to keep tank inhabitants from taking a ride to the sump (as I read in a recent post Glad the BTA is alright).
I am not sure about the water fall rate. I think it is pretty good. We have a Iwaki pump pushing around 1200 gph. At least that much is falling to the sump in the same time frame because our water levels are stable. Being downpipes makes it hard to tell if the water is "dropping". Really can't see if it is falling 2 inches of 2 feet.
Jfinch we have two down pipes in our tanks rather than an overflow box (for personal and future reasons). We set it up different from most other tanks we have seen but it seems to work the same. They are centered (back to front ) and spaced evenly left to right.
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Renee and Damon Weimer
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Weimers
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Posted: March 28 2004 at 8:44am |
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Renee and Damon Weimer
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Weimers
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Posted: March 28 2004 at 8:45am |
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Renee and Damon Weimer
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Weimers
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Posted: March 28 2004 at 8:46am |
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Renee and Damon Weimer
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Weimers
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Posted: March 28 2004 at 8:54am |
Renee writing this time. I took these photos this morning. Finally figured out that taking them at low resolution works better. 1st photo is lefthand side with the downspout. 2nd photo is from the end, so that you guys can tell us whether it looks toxic. (Boy, I sure hope not - but that's why we talk tanks, right?) 3d photo is the right half of the tank. Photo 2&3 show a couple of bright orange sponges that we got from Bill. We have hundreds of the squirty sponges, too. I think sponges are pretty sensitive to toxicity, correct? Also have a clam (3d photo mid-right) and some new baby snails that wouldn't handle a lot of ammonia, nitrities, etc. What sayeth WMAS? How are we doing? Oh, it's just my opinion, but the scum on the top was a type of algae. Our lawnmower blenny was quite happy to eat it, and he's pretty picky about what he munches. Anyway, that will never happen again. It just snuck up on us. So we'll keep an eye on the surface agitation. Thanks a million, Jim!! I feel really stupid that we saw it, and somehow it just didn't "register" as a potential problem. (Duh!)
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Renee and Damon Weimer
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