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Bryguy514 
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 Topic: Anyone dosing VODKA?
Posted: November 24 2009 at 8:30pm |
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Ok I was browsing around and came across an article where they are dosing vodka into there reef tanks to eliminate nitrates and phosphates has anyone done this? I will see if I can find that article again.
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bfessler
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 8:37pm |
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Vodka dosing has been around for a while now but it must be closely monitored and controlled to prevent a desaster in your tank. There are many other ways to eliminate nitrates and phosphates that are much safer. I'm known for trying controversial products and systems but this is one that I'm not excited about trying, however some poeple have reported good results dosing Vodka.
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Burt
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Bryguy514
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 8:40pm |
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I have been doing so research on this and people I have talked to have been very pleased with the results. I do think a very accurate dosing pump is required with this technique. Just been curious if anyone has tried it here on the board.
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badfinger
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 9:02pm |
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I have heard its not too much of a question of if it works, but that it works too well and removes too much... but with anything in this hobby- do it right and you will have success
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 9:10pm |
I do not currently dose Vodka but will when my new tank is setup. There are a few requirements for dosing vodka. Numero uno is that you MUST have a GOOD skimmer. No cheap knock off stuff here. You should use a skimmer that is rated for at least 3x times your system.
You will also want to look into dosing some type of bacteria such as Brightwell Aquatics MicroBacter7 to out compete the "bad" bacteria in the tank.
Here are a few links to check out:
I would start there and ask a TON of questions before just dumping vodka into your tank. Understand what it is that you are trying to achieve and understand there will be a large learning curve.
I personally don't think there is a better way to take care of a tank than dosing vodka and a bacteria source of some kind. But that is just my opinion.
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Bryguy514
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 9:17pm |
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Thank you for those links I will deffinatly check it out. What type of dosing pumps do you use?
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coche
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 9:20pm |
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I believe that alcohol also removes the Oxygen from the water!BE CAREFUL WITH THIS ONE....a company near my old work in springville spill a barrel of mouth wash down the drain and ever fish down stream from the treatment plant for a couple miles died, the carp were jumping out on to the shore so they could breath!!!
IMHO natural means to balance in a salty reef are much much better!!!
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Justin Carr-Spanish Fork
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 9:22pm |
 Bryguy514 wrote:
Thank you for those links I will deffinatly check it out. What type of dosing pumps do you use? |
I don't currently dose so therefore I don't have any dosing pumps. I do not recommend using a pump with the vodka. Since you have to change the amounts dosed it would be very time consuming to change a timer every week or even more often than that.
The best pumps I have found are the ones that Bulk Reef Supply sell. They are about 90 bucks a piece but work off a timer, so as long as you have a good timer you don't need to worry about overdosing anything. I would only use a dosing pump for dosing alkalinity, calcium and magnesium.
Look for the link I provided that takes you to My Bacteria Driven Journey. He uses the pumps I would recommend and is very detailed in how the whole system works.
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 9:26pm |
coche wrote:
I believe that alcohol also removes the Oxygen from the water!BE CAREFUL WITH THIS ONE....a company near my old work in springville spill a barrel of mouth wash down the drain and ever fish down stream from the treatment plant for a couple miles died, the carp were jumping out on to the shore so they could breath!!!
IMHO natural means to balance in a salty reef are much much better!!!
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Alcohol does not remove oxygen but the bacteria it feeds will consume the oxygen in your tank quickly. Just be careful and go slow and you won't have any problems.
A good skimmer is a must to keep oxygen levels up and also to clean out the bacteria in the tank.
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coche
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 10:01pm |
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very interesting it is amazing how nature works!
thanks for the incite ryan
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Justin Carr-Spanish Fork
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dew2loud1
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 11:38pm |
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Dion Richins
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 12:30am |
WARNING!!!!!!!!
Not only has this been tried, it has failed horribly. I know of 2 tanks in the valley that attempted to do this and failed miserably.
DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE NOT READY TO MONITOR EVERY DAY.
The tank in Layton had thousands of dollars worth of coral. (The owner had been in the hobby for years) The owner didn't check it that morning and it ended up inputting more than was needed. Tank FAILED.
The other one was in West Jordan. Young man thought he was the cats meow when it came to reefing. Found out very fast that some things need to be left to the professionals. (which reminds me, I don't know of any professionals that would risk their tanks to this option).
If you want a jump start for your system then research using brown sugar. If you attempt using Vodka be prepared for daily monitoring and a eventual fail. If you follow the threads on reef central you will find it is the experienced reefers doing it and very few do it for long. I'm sure the rush of trying something so demanding looses its appeal fairly shortly.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 9:30am |
Thanks for that input Dion.  Fads come and go and come and go again. I've seen hobbyists ruin their hobby experience because of trying something fadish. It's not nice to mess with Mother Nature. 
You are very wise to come here for advice regarding anything related to this hobby. And I also love this group because of the off topic section where I can get answers to any questions. |
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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dons
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 10:09am |
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I have been vodka dosing now for about 2 months and though it has had a drastic reduction in the phosphates and the colors of my corals it is a major headache! I have spent so much money lately on test kits to make sure all is well and the time invested is really becoming too much for me.
After reading Dions post I think I may seriously start slowing on the amount and eventually ween the tank off of the vodka, not sure if I can just stop. I know some others that have successfully added vodka for several years but they are constantly doing large water changes, it's a nano tank and they change at least 20% every week.
Since starting vodka dosing I have seen a marked decrease in the amount of hair algae but have also added large numbers of clean up crew and several urchins so I can't attribute the decrease to the vodka. I have lost 1 fish since beginning dosing but don't think that was attributed to the vodka either.
I definitely would not recommend dosing vodka for anyone that is just starting a tank or just starting out in this hobby. I know that I picked off more than I could chew or at least am willing to continue. I went from spending around 10 hours a week on maintaining my tank to about 20 or more now. To me that hasn't been worth the payback. I think when I was running Chem pure or Phosban I had just a good a result.
Anyway just my .02
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 11:36am |
Bryguy,
You will find very little support from this group if you want to try anything out of the "norm". People will wish you luck and hope you succeed but will think you are crazy and will tell you that WILL fail no matter what. That is a flat out lie!!!
You will NOT crash your tank in one day when dosing vodka. If you over dose then you skim wet for a day and don't dose for a couple days. You will see white stringy stuff in your tank but that will be taken out by your skimmer over time. Just monitor your tank and watch the inhabitants. The first month may be a little bad but soon you will get it all dialed in and I would bet you will spend less time working on your tank and more time enjoying it.
If you want a tank that looks like 99% of the tanks found on this forum, don't dose vodka. Just run a refugium and hope it does the job in the end. Just remember that refugiums and phosphate removers can NOT remove phosphates being leached from the sand and rock. Eventually hair algae will take over and consume the phosphates being leached.
You do not need to do large water changes either. Actually, I am very much against large water changes. Once a month water changes are plenty. Just go study Sunny's tank found at Rimless Reef. He changes his water maybe once every 2 months at this point.
With good flow, a good skimmer, cleaning your sand, and dosing vodka you will be just fine. Go SLOW and take your time. The tank you have now is used to things being run a certain way and it takes time to undo all that and start something new.
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bfessler
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 11:48am |
Hi Ryan,
Don't you think you should actually try dosing Vodka before you challenge those who have or have seen tanks fail as a result of dosing Vodka. I'm not saying your research is flawed but before advocating it you should experience it.
I also have to take issue with your indication that you don't get support form members of the site when trying something new. You did say they will wish you well but the tone is that it's only lip service. I have found the members here to be very helpful and encouraging, more so than any of the other sites I have visited. It's to be expected that they will have opinions based on their experience and you shouldn't expect them to jump on any new bandwagon that comes along. When my using the Hiatt system came under attack many members came to my defense even though they don't use the system, you included if I remember correctly.
Get a little first hand experience then let us know how it is going for you. This isn't a personal attack just some friendly advice. I think you'll find that you won't alienate others with this approach.
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Burt
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Dion Richins
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 11:51am |
Ryan I hate to call bull **** but I'm going to. The gentleman in Layton had far more knowledge and experience than both of us together. His crashed in a matter of hours after the dosing system had a problem. We read of these tanks that have great success with out taking in the knowledge of how many tried it and failed. In this instance its a considerable amount.
You talk about how great it is but you yourself don't do it? Why? I also would not do anything that caused me to spend 20hrs a week maintaining a nano. I don't spend that on the 600g+ in my home!
This Board isn't holding anyone back. Just the opposite. RPD was used here in its infancy as well as the whole refugium idea its self. (Thanks Mark)
We have some of the most awesome and respected reefers here and they are willing to share their knowledge and experience with all of us.
I find it rather rude and down right insulting to the 99% of us here who obviously have crappy looking tanks just because we chose to use the vodka for orange juice and not pour it in our tanks.
Bryan you have been on the board longer than I have. From the looks of the gallons you keep you have a good handle of whats going on as well as knowing the value of the board. My suggestion to you would be to look at dewclouds idea (I haven't looked at it yet but I have much respect for him) or use brown sugar. I have used that method to jump start my 400g system when it was new.
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 11:53am |
Burt,
I would be dosing vodka if I could be. Right now money and the tanks say otherwise. With no skimmer it is impossible to dose. So I agree with you 100%.
However I do have experience dosing vodka. I dosed it on my uncle's tank for over a month. The results were awesome! He since has stopped because he is not home enough to monitor the tank and I can't be there everyday either.
So I do have first hand experience dosing vodka to a tank.
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Dion Richins
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 11:55am |
Thought I would post one of those non vodka tanks!
Edited by Dion Richins - November 25 2009 at 11:56am
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 12:00pm |
Dion,
I agree that there are amazing reefers here on the board! I don't doubt that for one second. I do however have my opinions on what looks good. I find most of the tanks I see here do not fit my taste. Did I call them ugly??? NOPE! They just aren't what I want out of this hobby. Call me rude and insulting.
I owe more to Mark than anyone else on this board and you too, Dion. If you remember you are the one that gave me my first corals over 3 years ago.
Mark took time to drive from Bountiful to Draper when my first tank crashed. He brought with him LW and LS to add to my tank. It was amazing to see that kind of help and I will always remember it and always be grateful for it.
But when it comes to how "I" want a tank to look, I avoid making it look like Mark's tanks. Are they ugly? No, just not what I want. I don't like algae or soft corals. That is all my personal opinion.
Dosing vodka leads me to believe that Bryan's tanks are probably majority SPS. I see no reason to dose vodka on a softies or LPS filled tank. It will make the water to clean for them.
Again, this is all my opinion, rude or not!
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