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Calcium nightmare

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DeepFriedOprah View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 01 2008 at 12:39pm
OK so here is my problem. I am adding twice the recomended doseage of Kent Turbo Calcium and I cannot get my level to go above 200.
History and info:
2 1/2 month old tank 55gal hex
HOT magnum 250 filter w/carbon
two power heads 1 Koralia 3, and 1 Maxi Jett 1200
50+ pounds live rock 4" live sand substrate
175watt MH
Stock:
1 Emerald Crab
1 Pink Spot Goby
1 Bullseye Pistol Shrimp
1 Six Line Wrasse
2 Fake Percula's
1 Blue Hippo Tang
10 Snails I would have more if the Goby would stop picking them of the rocks
10 Hermit Crabs the Goby likes these also
2 small birds nest frags
2 mushroom rocks
1 Kenya tree
1 Softie that I dont know about, it looks like a mushroom (found in your lawn) when the polyps are retracted
I had my water tested when the tank was one month old
NO3 10
7.7 dKH
CA 410
1.025 SG
MG 1260
I did a 5gal water change with lightly mixed RO water after the test to bring my Specific gravity down. I was directed by the LFS to start dosing part A & B. I have been using Turbo Calcium and Super Buffer. I started a weekly dosing of Turbo Strontium
I retested the water one moth later and the results
NO3 2
16+ dKH
170 Calcium
These results are with daily dosing of part A & B. So I dosed the buffer only one time over the next two weeks and added a 1/4 tsp of the turbo calcium daily with no water changes. I only topped off the tank with RO water, no water changes. Here are the frustrating results:
N03 5
18 dKH
Ca 200
SG 1.020
No new pink Coralline algae visible, the shells on the snails look like they are deteriorating.
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DeepFriedOprah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepFriedOprah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 12:44pm
Sorry I dont know what is up with all those silly little A's wearing hats. Â
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 12:46pm
Quit dosing for a while and let the Alk come down to the 8-11 range. As the Alk comes down it will allow the CA to come up. Keep testing the water and then start dosing again only if needed. SG of 1.020 is a little low in my opinion too.
 
Mike


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 1:19pm
are you doing water changes? your corals use calcium. If your demand is high they are just going to use it all up. Start doing weekly water changes of 10% if you arent already doing them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbeck4x4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 1:25pm
(wish I could remember who posted this concept the first time, but it helped me)
one way to think of calcium and alk is that you have a bowl full of marbles, two different colors of marbles, right now your bowl has more alk marbles then calcium marbles.
now only so many can fit in the bowl at the same time, so like mike said above, if you let the alk come down, then there will be room for more calcium.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepFriedOprah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 1:54pm
Thank you, I will quit the Ca dosing for a while and then test. What test kit or brand do you recomend for dKH and Ca or would you stick with the LFS. I like the marble comparison, that is what I was kindof (heavy emphasis on the kindof) thinking. Does the mag affect this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 2:03pm
No, imo you need to keep dosing the calcium.  Your calcium is not going to jump up on it's own.  But QUIT dosing any alkalinity.  That means no buffer and no 2-part.  If your numbers are correct you need to add ~20 tsp of turbo calcium to your tank to get up close to 400 ppm.  This will drive down you alkalinity.  Retest everything after you've done this.  Add the turbo calcium at 10 tsp/day.

oh and get your salinity up too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepFriedOprah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 2:11pm
add 10 teaspoons of turbo calcium per day for two days? I am working on the salinity, I raised it a little last night with a 5gal water change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrimsRayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 2:14pm
What kind of salt do you use?  I have found that some salts raise Alk or Ca more than others.  When I used Oceanic for example I couldn't get my Alk up.  I changed to IO and Ocean Pure and haven't had any level issues since.  You may want to try raising your salinity with a diff kind of salt.  Salinity is usually around 1.022-1.025 for reefs.  I keep my tanks at 1.0235
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 2:30pm
Extra water changes are not necessary. Simply take out some tank water mix in some salt then pour it back in. Do this about 2-3 times over the course of a day to raise the salinity to 1.025. That salinity is best for a reef tank.
 
I agree with Jon, stop adding the alkalinity part and just add a bit of Ca each day over the course of a week or two until the numbers come within range.
 
If you would like more tips about how to do all this, click here and read this thread:
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 2:46pm
we had this problem in our large cube. the alk was 16 also and calcium was 200. I continued the weekly water changes. Only dosed calcium daily(b-ionic, but you can use any calcium additive as long as it doesnt effect alk), and it took about 3 weeks and FINALLY everything was back to normal. If your corals are not using the alk very quickly just letting it come down will take a while
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 2:47pm
I use and like the Salifert test kits.
 
Mike


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepFriedOprah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 2:55pm
I use oceanic salt. The recommendation of 10 teaspoons of turbo calcium seems high to me, since the bottle said to add 1/8 teaspoon on a lightly loaded reef per 50 gallons and I thought I was pushing it when I added 1/4 teaspoon. I believe it will take a while for the alkalinity to come down due to the lack of coral.
That is funny I never thought of just taking out some water and adding the salt to that and then pour it back in duh Geek.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepFriedOprah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 2:57pm
thanks for the recommendation Mike.
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 3:44pm
The manufacturers directions are very cautious because they don't want anyone that doesn't know how to use the stuff to come back complaining. That dosage is also for a tank that only needs the levels to be maintained. Your is a tank that needs a fairly major adjustment. It's okay to add that much.
You can trust Jon. He's our chemistry expert here in the WMAS. He's a degreed Chemical Engineer. Adding lots of Ca doesn't hurt a thing. I've seen lots of tanks with Alk that high. It doesn't hurt anything and comes down slowly as Ca is added. Quick changes can cause problems. Slow changes are better.
 
Oh and stop dosing everything else. This is important because it sounds like you are falling into the new hobbyist trap. The trap tells you, "If it's made for a reef tank then I should be adding it." and "If a little is good then more is better." Too much dosing of additives can cause more problems than too little additives. Ordinary lightly stocked reef tanks get all they need from regular monthly 10% water changes. And you really need to read the thread I linked you to in the post above. It will help a lot.Smile
 
Also, if you would like to make the most of your two powerheads, to ensure that there is good water circulation, read this: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23728


Edited by Mark Peterson - March 01 2008 at 4:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EagleEyez5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 9:52pm
what I have done to raise my salinity is just mix salt with my topoff each day.....that way you don't have the hassle of pulling water out then just pouring it back in.....my top off water is already outside of the tank, so I just add a little salt to it........

Also I agree with Mark, you can trust Jon about adding the calcium....if he says 10 is ok, I would do it.....he actually was a speaker at one of the meetings and showed how test the correct way.....great job.......You also may want to have someone else use their test kit on your water....that way you know its not just your kit that is the problem....any time I see something wrong with my parameters, I run some water to a friend before making any adjustments......I am glad I did with my calcium the last time.....I knew my calcium was not over 600......it was just the test.....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cl2ysta1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2008 at 10:21pm
oh and i just noticed your name. deep fried oprah? as in the tv host.
 
funny!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepFriedOprah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2008 at 1:03am
Thanks for the great advice, adding what John said feels like the first time I took a dive off of the high dive at the swimming pool "you'll be fine it wont hurt!". Shocked I will read the links a keep y'all posted on the PROGRESS. Yes that is Oprah as in the talk show host, that is also my gamertag on xbox live if anyone plays, but by the sound of things no has time, I know I have very little time know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reptoreef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2008 at 9:11am
monitor your magnesium as well!
www.captivereefing.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2008 at 10:26am
10 tsp is just half of what you need to get back to normal.  Mark's right that you could add all 20 tsp at once, it won't hurt anything.  But if you've read your test wrong, you might not need that much which is why I suggest going slow (especially since you're new).

The 20 tsps is just simple math:

Assuming 50 gallon tank going from 200 ppm Ca to 400 ppm Ca then

50 gal tank x 3.78 l/gal x (400 - 200 mg Ca/l) = 37800 mg Ca to add = 37.8 g Ca

Turbo Calcium is (ratio of molecular weights) = 40/111 = 36% Ca

So you'll need 37.8 g Ca / 36% Ca in Turbo Calcium = 105 g of Turbo Calcium

Turbo calcium is ~ 5g per tsp so:  105 g Turbo Calcium / 5 g Turbo Calcium per tsp = 21 tsp

You'll likely need more then 21 tsp because your very high alk will be consuming a portion of the turbo calcium you add.  Good luck!
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