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Connecting Ozone to skimmer?

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Adam Haycock View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 18 2006 at 7:59am
I ordered an Enaly 200mg/hr ozone unit. Is it okay to connect this to my ASM skimmer? Will it make the plastic brittle? Where can i get a T-connector for the air intake? Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 10:13am

Yes, it can be connected to the venturi on the skimmer. It does not harm the plastic, it eats up rubber seals. You would need to check whether your model has O3 resistant seals and replace them when available. The T is just an airline T available at the LFS. Be very careful with the amount of O3. As you are probably aware, too much O3 can oxidize and kill everything in the tank.



Edited by Mark Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reptoreef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 10:39am
I run ozone through my ASM and see no appearant embrittlement in the o-rings, the tubing, etc. As Mark mentioned, a 200mg/hr unit creates alot of ozone and should be used with a controller as it is not adjustable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MBX5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 12:15pm
Yes ASM is Ozone safe according to www.asmskimmer.com



Joe Barnas
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 12:49pm

O3 has a distinct smell and taste. That's your control mechanism. Just start at a fraction, say 10% of the O3 output.

It is just a matter of mixing the O3 with air in a 9-1 ratio before it enters the skimmer venturi. I know that Adam will figure it out. I wonder if Asad/seti007 already has it worked out?

I called him. He restricts the O3 with an air valve before the T which leads to the skimmer venturi after sucking air from the room. He likes the look of his 500+ gal now with O3.



Edited by Mark Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seti007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 2:13pm

That's right mark. In just under a week of operation, The tank does look noticably clearer. I am begining to worry about my Gigas clam gettign enough nurishment anymore. O well time will tell.

I used a simple airline tubing valve (used to regulate airflow rate for air pumps) to restrict the flow down to where I could not smell the o3 anymore. I also run it on a timer from 11am till 8pm. I'm pretty sure that the restricting valve is not ozone safe but I'll just chuck it and get a new one when it fails. As for a T you can go to home depot and get a bag full of those T's used for garden sprinkler system for really cheap. Replace them every few months if need be as I think that they are not o3 resistant.

One thing I noticed is that the skimmer started to pull more than the normal amount of skimmate right at the beginning but now it seems to be pulling less.



Edited by seti007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Haycock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 3:00pm
Thanks for the replies :) My tank has a huge bioload. I average about a cup a day of frozen food. My water has a yellowish tint so im using the ozone to get clearer water. My plan was to just run the thing at very short intervals (1-2hrs maybe) until the water clears up. Once clear, i'll stop using the ozone until needed again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 4:47pm
I'm not getting how you are reducing the ozone make on the Enlay.  Can someone enlighten me?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 5:31pm

O3 --->valve--->T--->Venturi

The valve restricts the O3 to the T. The T opens the line to air.

Whether the O3 generation chamber will be compromised by the lack of O2 is not known, yet at $60 shipped...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seti007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 6:06pm

Jon, here is the valve I use

http://www.aquariumguys.com/aigava25.html

It has a dial to reduce/increase the air flow.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 6:20pm

Many years ago, I bought a package of tiny plastic valves and T's that were made specifically for aquarium airline tubing. I still use them. I know they are for aquarium use because they are green.

Just last week I noticed that along with the tiny Drip Irrigation Sprinkler T's are packages of tiny valves!



Edited by Mark Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 9:54pm
Asad, have you noticed your enlay getting hot?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Haycock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2006 at 10:07pm
I just plan on running the enaly at full strength with no monitoring. I have maybe 300-350 gallons. Do i really have anything to worry about if im only using the ozone for short periods at a time to clear the water? The tank is an eel tank and doesnt have many corals i care about. Do I need to run carbon when i use the ozone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2006 at 12:57am

If the Enlay is really a 200 mg unit (I know they claim it, just don't know if it's true) then it's possible that it could be too much.  Ozone is a "poison" in high levels and a "medicine" at low.  It's gotta be better to keep a steady low dose going rather then dumping a lot for a short time doesn't it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reptoreef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2006 at 1:15am
IMO, spend the $ and get ya a controller... for around a $100, piece of mind is priceless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Haycock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2006 at 2:58am

Perhaps i could ozinate a 5 gallon bucket of water and dump it in? What is the point of having it go through the skimmer? Why not just let it bubble in the sump? My sump is 100 gallons. Im not planning on trying to maintain a certain ORP so i think a controller is pointless. I'll just slowly increase the amount of time i leave the ozone on until the water clears up. Im of course assuming that the water will clear up before dangerous ozone levels are reached.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2006 at 10:52am

Asad's unit looks like and has an air pump. It pushes air through the chamber. It was not too hot to the touch. It's an "Easelee" brand that says it generates 300 mg/hr.

O3 oxidizes/burns/kills organic matter. A large amount of O3 for a short amount of time would kill stuff that you don't want killed. A smaller amount of O3 run 24/7 is advisable.

The reason O3 is put through a skimmer is to allow it to blow off out the cup rather than stay in the water and go into the tank where it would kill things. Bubbling it in the tank would be dangerous. Bubbling it in the sump would be okay, but not at 200 mg/hr.

Asad's design for delivery works very well. Also, his O3 generator is on a timer running only ~12 hrs/day and he has it valved down to less than 25 mg/hr (per my mouth test)

Caution, doing the mouth test on the full 2-300 causes some major burning even down into the throat. if you want to try the mouth test, turn it way back and smell the air coming out of the hose. If it stinks really bad, turn it back some more. Then puff on it as one would puff on a cigar, filling the cheeks, but not breathing it into the lungs. O3 has a distinctive taste and smell. You will get a feel for it.

Again, I say, unless you have $ to burn, a controller is uneccessary. The amount of Ozone required can be judged by smell, taste and the look of the tank. Adjustments to increase O3 must made very small (5-10%) and over days/weeks.

I used to be against O3 because I knew little of it and preferring an all natural system. Now I have seen it in action in hundreds of tanks, so now am in favor of it for many, but not all tanks. It's best use is in newer highly stocked tanks where there is not enough natural oxidation (ORP) present. ORP occurs naturally in more mature well oxygenated/circulated reef tanks with lots of life in rock and sand.

I recommend O3 over UV Sterilization. O3 is much more effective and treats 10X more water in a given amount of time.



Edited by Mark Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2006 at 11:01am

Perhaps i could ozinate a 5 gallon bucket of water and dump it in?

You might as well just add some chlorox the bucket.  Chlorox is cheaper.  Or hydrogen peroxide.  End results would be similar/same.  Ozone does not stay dissolved as ozone when dissolved in seawater.  Ozone will completely dissolve and "pass" it's reactivity on to other more stable molecules (and this happens very very quickly).  Most likely candidate in seawater is bromide which then forms bromine (which is a type of bleach).  http://www.lenntech.com/water-disinfection/disinfectants-bro mine.htm

To raise ORP you add an oxidizing agent.  It doesnt really matter what agent that is, could be regular chlorine bleach, hydrogen peroxide or ozone.  Just happens that ozone is the easiest to control so it's the agent of choice.

Im not planning on trying to maintain a certain ORP so i think a controller is pointless.

A controller does not try to control to a certain ORP.  All a controller does is shut off the ozone if the ORP gets to the setpoint of the controller.  So if you set your controller at 400 mV it will do nothing as long as the ORP stays below 400, but as soon as the probe sees 400 or greater it will shut off the power to the ozonator.

I'll just slowly increase the amount of time i leave the ozone on until the water clears up.

Might work, but a better solution is to add a smaller amount over a longer time frame, imo.  Here's a thought exercise...

Assume you have a tank that needs 1000 mg of ozone per day.  If you were using a traditional reef tank ozonator the output would be adjustable.  So you could set the output at 1000/24 = 42 mg/hr.  This will produce a plume 1 foot long of effluent water from the ozone reactor (skimmer most likely) with an ORP high enough to kill some organisms.  Past the 1 ft plume the water has mixed enough to lower the ORP to safe levels.  Now lets look at a unit like the enlay without adjustable output.  You'll be adding 200 mg/hr for 5 hrs to get the same ozonation level.  But the plume from the ozone reactor when adding 200 mg/hr will be much longer then 1 ft and may reach into your tank.

Im of course assuming that the water will clear up before dangerous ozone levels are reached.

See the above thought experiment.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2006 at 11:11am

The reason O3 is put through a skimmer is to allow it to blow off out the cup rather than stay in the water and go into the tank where it would kill things.

No, the reason a skimmer is used is cause most people already have a skimmer and most skimmer do a pretty good job of mixing up air and water.  But you can buy an ozone reactor specifically for this.  All it does is ciruculate water round and round through a vessel ensuring all the ozone gas is dissolved... kinda like a calcium reactor without the media.  If you're blowing off ozone then you have poor air/water contact time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2006 at 11:35am

Jon, Thanks for adding to my understanding.

How can we know how much O3 stays in the water and goes into the tank?

The plume? Is this where the O3 is?

And the end of the plume? Is that where the O3 has dissipated into the atmosphere?

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