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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elegancecoral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 7:12pm
  My website is up and running, finally.  www.elegancecoral.org I just added the forum last night.  My goal is to have all the information someone would need to care for these corals on this site.
 
  To answer your question in the short version, light is the cause of all the problems.  The problems don't stop there however.  There is a pattern of symptoms that these corals go through.  These Indo Pacific Elegance corals are coming from very deep dark waters.  When exposed to light that is to bright (witch doesn't take much) they will swell up and withdraw their tentacles.  I believe that as this takes place the cell walls within the coral are being destroyed.  This is the same tissue damage we find in corals that have bleached.  After suffering this damage their ability to fight off infection is greatly reduced.  Their cell walls have been compromised leaving them open to attack from a wide range of organisms.  This is where the pathogen, protozoan, or disease theory came from.  It has been assumed that the over inflated oral disk and shrunken tentacles was a result of these organisms.  This is not the case.  If a coral showing these symptoms is removed from the light that is causing them, in time, the coral will survive.  If the exposure is to intense or to long the cellular damage will be to severe for the coral to overcome and infection will set in.  The over inflated oral disk and shrunken tentacles is not contagious.  I have mixed these corals with healthy and/or weakened Elegance corals many times and never had a reaction from the other corals in the tank.   The infection that fallows can be contagious, as any infection in a closed system can be contagious. 
   And that was the short version.  So if you want a healthy Elegance it may be worth the money to buy an Australian Elegance.  There is no need to dive to greater depths to collect them there.  These corals are just as hardy as the Elegance corals we were getting 20 years ago, even though they are coming in through some of the same wholesalers and retailers that sell the Indo Pacific corals. 
 
  This is a video of a swollen Elegance with its tentacles withdrawn in the same tank with 9 other Elegance corals.  Some of these corals are very healthy and others are in different stages of this problem.  The other corals in the tank did not begin to swell because this one was in the tank.
 


Edited by elegancecoral - October 08 2007 at 7:15pm
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Cody Pearce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cody Pearce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 9:20pm

It looked normal when I left this morning, but for some reason when my wife got up it had swollen somewhat again.  She still turned on the lights for a couple hours with no change and when she called me I had her turn them off.  I just barely turned the lights back on (still with the plastic covering of course) and here is the pic.  Any thoughts on why it would swell like this again?  Is it still getting too much light?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cody Pearce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2007 at 9:40pm
Here's an idea of the light it is getting
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elegancecoral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2007 at 7:31am
  If you look at the brown color of this coral you will notice that it is very dark.  This is due to the vast population of zooxanthellae in its tissues.  A population this dense can overload the corals tissues with O2 very easily during photosynthesis.  This O2 does not dissipate the moment the lights go off.  There has been research that shows it can take many hours for the O2 levels to drop back down to safe levels.  I believe that what we see with many of these corals like yours is that the O2 climbs to damaging levels during the day.  When the lights go out the O2 levels begin to drop.  By the time the lights come back on in the morning the coral is usually no longer swollen and seems to be improving.  The O2 level has dropped below the damaging level, but is still quite high.  This slightly elevated O2 in the morning combined with the high population of algae in its tissues can push the levels back up very easily.   I have had some success by keeping corals like this in the dark for 24 hours to give the O2 levels more time to drop back down to normal levels.  Even after this we still have the large population of algae to deal with, so they are still very sensitive to light.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2007 at 9:20am
deep dark waters?
I had heard that they are collected from murky water grass bed areasConfused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elegancecoral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2007 at 11:46am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

deep dark waters?
I had heard that they are collected from murky water grass bed areasConfused
 
  Those days are over for the collection sights in the Indo Pacific.  There aren't enough Elegance corals left in the grass flats to collect.  After decades of over collecting they have been forced to dive to much greater depths to find them.  At one point all of our Elegance corals were coming from these grass flats because they were very easy to find and collect.  Elegance corals live in a variety of environments.  They are just harder to collect in other areas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TriggerHappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2007 at 1:12pm
Wow, this is very interesting.  In the past I've given up on keeping an elegance since I had no success keeping them alive.  This gives me hope of perhaps getting one in the future.  Thanks to Cody and to elegancecoral!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elegancecoral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2007 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by Camarofish Camarofish wrote:

Wow, this is very interesting.  In the past I've given up on keeping an elegance since I had no success keeping them alive.  This gives me hope of perhaps getting one in the future.  Thanks to Cody and to elegancecoral!
 
  You are very welcome.  Don't get me wrong though.  These Indo pacific corals can be very sensitive and hard to keep.  I don't want people to think I'm trying to say that they are easy to keep.  I don't have a magic pill that makes all the Elegance corals better, I wish I did.  Many of these corals can be saved if the right steps are taken, though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cody Pearce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2007 at 9:17pm
Honestly what should really happen is to have an organization take all indo-pacific elegances and accilimate them to aquarium life before they are sent off to the aquarium trade.  Just my opinion after what I've been going through.
 
Here's the newest pic
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elegancecoral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2007 at 7:29am

  I wish they would at least change the way they collect and house these corals before shipping them.  I talked with a lady that was on a collection expedition, and she stated that the Elegance corals would be showing the swollen polyp and shrunken tentacles by the time they made it to the boat.  Many of these holding tanks are only inches deep and lit by natural sun light on docks.  The damage to these corals starts long before we get them.  If they would keep them shaded during the collection and holding process at least they would be healthy when we got them and they would be much easier to care for. 

  Hopefully your coral will stop swelling now.  I would expect it to withdraw.  As long as you keep the slime removed in the mornings you may be able to keep if from becoming infected.  Its tissues have been damaged and this can lead to infection.  As long as infection does not set in the coral will pull through this.  It is a long healing process though.  It may have taken years for the coral to grow the tissue it has lost.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cody Pearce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2007 at 10:02pm

I'm just curious as to who in the club has an elegance in one of their tanks atm?  Also has anyone seen some healthy ones in any of our pet stores?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dkle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2007 at 10:36pm
Mountain Shadow Marine does stock these from time to time.  The ones that I saw looked pretty healthy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cody Pearce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2007 at 12:53am
I've seen them at Mountain Shadow too.  They must get the Australian ones.  Do they have any now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dkle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2007 at 5:04pm
I just stopped by.  They have one (75 or 85 bucks).  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dion Richins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2007 at 5:22pm
ouchShocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cody Pearce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2007 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by Holdencraft 33 Holdencraft 33 wrote:

ouchShocked


Well worth it compared to the one I got .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dkle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2007 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by Holdencraft 33 Holdencraft 33 wrote:

ouchShocked


So normally they would go for less?  I wasn't gonna buy it; but I was thinking that was a reasonable price.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cody Pearce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2007 at 5:38pm
The deep water one I got was 42, but probably won't survive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dion Richins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2007 at 6:26pm
The last one I got was from Mountain Shadow and it was $49. (mind you it was 2 years ago.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cody Pearce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2007 at 8:21pm
I just went there to look at it.  It's an indo-pacific and was under fairly low light.  It was all shriveled up when I got there and the guy said it was because he was cleaning the tanks.   He said they had had it for over a month.  How did it look when you were there Dinhkim? 
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