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Oolitic Sand Analysis

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jfinch View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 02 2004 at 2:44pm

Background:
For those who are new, there is a naturally occuring oolitic sand found near the Great Salt Lake out on Stansbury Island.  Some hobbiest here have used this sand in their tanks.  Some hobbiest argue against the use of this sand for various reasons.  The purpose of this "experiement" was to test the GSL sand against some of the more popular oolitic sands, namely the Caribsea product and the Southdown play sand found in Home Depots back east.  Thanks to Mark Peterson for providing both the GSL oolitic and Caribsea oolitic.  Thanks to PC Pondbuilder for providing the Southdown.  The Southdown sand sampled was actually an OldCastle brand.  PC Pondbuilder has stated that OldCastle is the supplier to Southdown.

Executive Summary (for Adam... he's not reading the rest, not sure he even got this far ):
The results of these tests will probably not change many minds regarding the use/nonuse of the GSL sand.  The Caribsea and OldCastle sands test to be essentually the same.  It appears that Caribsea adds small shells and bits of shells to their oolitic sand.  The GSL sand tested 4.5 times higher in phosphorous then the other two.  There is also significantly more silica in the GSL sand.

Procedure:
20 grams of each sand was dissolved in 100 ml of 4 N HCl then diluted to 500 ml.  The samples were filtered and the filtered material weighed to determine how much silica sand was present.  Although this undisolved material was not analyzed, it was assumed to be silica.  It could also contain aluminum and other "clay" type constiguents.  For the purposes of this test anything that did not dissolve in HCl was considered "silica".  The dissolved sand sample was then titrated to determine calcium and magnesium content.  The magnesium number is really the total hardness due to compounds other the calcium.  Since strontium, iron, ect are most likely very low, the whole amount was assumed to be magnesium.  The pH of the dissolved sand sample was then increased to 4.0 by addition of 1 N NaOH.  This adjusted sample was then tested for iron, copper and phosphorous using a HACH 2000 Spectrophotometer.

Physical Appearance:
Since how a sand looks is important to most people, a picture of each of the sands is included.  The scale in all pictures is in mm.

Caribsea oolitic.

OldCastle oolitic.

GSL oolitic.

All three sands together to show the color differences.
Caribsea on left, Oldcastle in middle, GSL on right.

Here is a picture of the filtered "silica" sand that did not dissolve (sorry for the terrible pic).

One last picture.  The GSL sand that Mark supplied was washed but not screened.  About a year ago, I went out to the orginal dune and got some sand.  I washed and screened this sand.  The result is a sand closer is size to the Oldcastle.

Results:
The results of my testing is summarized in the following table.

 

GSL

Oolitic

(ppm)

CaribSea

Oolitic

(ppm)

OldCastle

Oolitic

(ppm)

Calcium

320,952

361,586

351,185

Magnesium

4,756

2,414

2,397

Silica

122,921

19,977

20,553

Iron

95

25

25

Copper

39

39

36

Phosphorous

161

35

37

The CaribSea and OldCastle oolitics tested identical in all aspects.  The GSL oolitic tested 4.5 times higher in phosphorous, 4 times higher in iron, 2 times higher in magnesium, 6 times higher in silica, the same in copper and slightly lower calcium when compared to the other two sands.  Whether this is significant or not is open to your debate.  There are many other elements that could be present that were not examined, I leave that exersise to someone else.



Edited by jfinch
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Adam Blundell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2004 at 3:04pm

Jon,

Fantastic work.  This will tie in nicely to my presentation tonight (got you wondering now don't I?).
Also, that second paragraph was so funny because it was so true.  I actually skipped the first part and if I hadn't seen my name in the second paragraph I probably would have skipped that as well.  ? for you.  Did you do all the analysis yourself? 

Question to everyone involved in this--------  would you be opposed to me using this test and results to write and publish a paper?

Thanks

Adam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2004 at 3:16pm

Thanks Jon.

Good information.

 

Jake Pehrson

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:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2004 at 3:17pm
I have a question then. How do the greater silica presence and higher phosphorous, magnesium and iron levels effect our systems? What can we expect as bad juju? Is this something where we need to run out and start scooping?
In Syracuse

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2004 at 3:17pm
I love that analysis.  Thank you Jon and the sand providers.  This is very helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GonZo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2004 at 3:20pm
For my vote, as long as Jon gets credit for the analsys and you mention WMAS and this website...go for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2004 at 5:27pm

One thing I forgot to mention with regard to the sands.  The GSL sand dissolved as I expected.  Lots of bubbles but no foam.  Both the Caribsea and OldCastle sands dissolved and formed a very very stiff foam in the container (think Guiness on steroids).  It took hours for the foam to fall.  I wonder if both sands have an anti-caking agent added when they are bagged?  I was with Mark when he opened the bag of Caribsea and there was, to my nose, a slight fragrant smell unlike sand which did go away after a while.  Or maybe it foamed for some other reason??

Adam, yes I did the analysis myself and what kind of article?

Carl, I can't really answer those questions.  The P is significantly higher but I don't know if it's significant in the tank.  160 ppm is still a very small amount.  And it's most likely there as CaPO4 which is like 10,000 times more insoluble then CaCO3 which means it's that much less likely to dissolve.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2004 at 8:48pm
Very good stuff, Jon.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2004 at 8:56pm

This post is only to let everyone know that I have read the above but I will refrain from responding to the arguments.

       

Those go to Jon.  Thanks!  Too bad RIck Greenfield never got them done, but I trust the source now.



Edited by Marcus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Willden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2004 at 9:21pm
Very good information Jon!

Thanks

By the way, I'll never buy Caribsea again after reading the results
about the Old Castle... I'll definetly be using that in my tanks in the
future. Much cheaper. But then that's probably why it's so hard to
get Caribsea to do a comparison test.

Great test, and very valuable.

Edited by Ryan Willden
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2004 at 9:27pm
Very nice work...  I would assume testing the GSL Rock would have simular results??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2004 at 5:56pm
I am very grateful to Jon Finch for accepting this project. Thanks to Tracy/PC Pond Builder for purchasing the Old Castle sand and for providing the sample. He may have more of it and can probably get more if anyone wants any. As I recall he was asking just over $1/lb. for it.

Travis asks a good question regarding rock.
The rock has been found with three distinct looks to it. I'll post some pics here a little later and if Jon is game, perhaps an analysis could be done on these as well, though one of the types is rare until we stumble upon another source.

Regarding the Utah Aragonite Rock, many thanks to former WMAS Member, Ed Lind, for bringing that first rock to our attention during a club meeting, after asking his friends in the BYU Chemistry Dept. to do the analysis which found it to be CaCO3.

Thanks to PC Pond Builder for pointing me to the our most recent and most plentiful source of rock.

Sorry, I can't remember who first pointed us to the Utah Geological Survey website on Utah Oolitic Sand.

Edited by Mark Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2004 at 7:06pm
To support the sand or rock is irresponsable IMO until more tests can be preformed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2004 at 7:36pm

Originally posted by Travis Travis wrote:

To support the sand or rock is irresponsable IMO until more tests can be preformed.

  I guess I will remain irresponsible.  USE UTAH's RESOURCES! FREE SAND, FREE ROCK, FREE SAND, FREE ROCK!

In Syracuse

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisslc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2004 at 8:10pm

In this hobby maybe more than any other we are all trying new things, and part of this club is sharing the results of our varying success and allowing others to benefit from this information and decide for themselves if they want to try the same. In the instance of our local resources I believe the cost benefits and environmental conservation are worth considering. That's all I've got too say about that.

However, I'm shifting quickly to the aragocrete camp since I think I've conquered the pourousity issue, Just to incite the flames here are there any other drawbacks to aragocrete that anyone can point out to me? aside from cure time, I don't mind that, all things in this hobby take patience.



Edited by chrisslc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2004 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by Travis Travis wrote:

To support the sand or rock is irresponsable IMO until more tests can be preformed.

You may not be aware of how many tanks are currently using these resources. Some are completing the three year mark and doing nicely. There are probably over a hundred tanks now using some or all Utah sand and rock. Of those hobbyists, there are a few that have discontinued its use, but for aesthetic reasons only.

Now that this empirical data is available, I am going to continue to claim what I always did claim, that the only reason not to use it is because of visual appearance but even that can be worked around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2004 at 9:19pm
Chrisslc, Unfortunately, I have seen and personally experienced some bad batches of aragocrete, apparently due to bad cement mix. And one due to curing in an uncontrolled environment.
Perhaps I missed it in an earlier post, but please tell us how you conquered the porosity issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rfoote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2004 at 9:26pm

I know that I'm not going to be using either in my next tank.  By the way - Thanks for the study and results Jon.  Very impressive!



Edited by rfoote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2004 at 10:21pm
Ryan, Is that because of wanting to completely avoid the kind of algae problem you had previously. I don't plan to argue here, just to discuss solutions. It really bothered me to find out that you were still battling that algae after so long (and that I didn't know it was still a problem ) From what Diana tells me, the hair algae on the rock she got from you is impervious to attack. Even her miracle pouch of barley straw(?) did not have any effect on your special brand of hair algae! I would have liked to stay with the problem till we found a solution. I would have taken some of it to another tank and tried a couple other things. You didn't use either the sand or rock in that tank, if I recall correctly. I know there probably isn't anyone so obsessed as me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2004 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by Carl Carl wrote:

Originally posted by Travis Travis wrote:

To support the sand or rock is irresponsable IMO until more tests can be preformed.

  I guess I will remain irresponsible.  USE UTAH's RESOURCES! FREE SAND, FREE ROCK, FREE SAND, FREE ROCK!

Free is NOT always better  and I would incourage you to add a disclaimer on your free statements...



Edited by Travis
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