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swiftra 
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 Topic: Fish keep dying!
Posted: October 13 2010 at 9:42am |
So no matter what kind of fish I put into my tank they keep dying. Have tried clowns, tangs, dwarf angels, and blenny's. Doesn't matter they all pass on eventually. Don't really understand why and was hoping maybe somebody could shed some light on this. Funny thing is right now I have a Tri-color wrasse and green spotted mandarin in there that have survived about a month but but everything else goes  . Tank specs: SG 1.025 Ammonia 0 Nitrates 0 Nitrites 0 Alk 9 dkh Calcium 420 Mag 1250 ph 8.3-8.4 Anybody got any ideas? My temp moves around a bit from 77-80 but I wouldn't think that has anything to do with it. Or does it? Alk and mag was way low for a bit and lost a couple of corals from that but brought them back up and added a couple of new fish and all have passed on to the big toilet bowl in the sky. So that wasn't it. Any help is greatly appreciated.
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If you make it idiot proof, someone will find a better idiot!
Well 100g crashed when I moved it. Starting a 50g cube now.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 11:26am |
Thanks for the good description.  You have come to the right place to resolve the problem. How long has the tank been set up and where did the rock and sand come from? What is the tanks filtration? Can you post a pic of the full tank and sump if there is one?
Edited by Mark Peterson - October 13 2010 at 11:28am
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Luckedout
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 11:54am |
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When do you lose the fish? After a couple of days, weeks, months? How do you acclimate them?
A 3 degree temp swing isn't a big deal.
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-Ben
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swiftra
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 12:14pm |
Luckedout- That's the weird thing usually lose them after a couple of weeks. Float the bag and then drip acclime them usually. But I have tried just floating the bag then putting them right in the tank and has the same result. Mark- Tank has been setup for about 10 months since I have had it. Before that who knows. Rock is a mix of stuff that came with the tank and agracrete that I have made. When the tank was first setup ph ran high but has since settled down. I assume that was the agracrete even thought I was getting steady readings when curing it in freshwater. The sump is 55g with 3 compartments skimmer and heater in the first, refugium in the second with dsb, rubble rock, and cheato, third is the return pump and ac. No idea where the sand came from it came with the tank and I haven't added any. This is the only full tank shot that I have  There is an outbreak break of hair algae in the main tank. I think that is from overfeeding trying to keep the last couple of fishes alive. Slowly getting it back under control. Also don't know if this will help but tank also has a cleaner shrimp, pink and green candy cane corals, blastos, couple of chalices, yellow polyps, zoa's, hammer, and mushrooms that all are growing and doing good. So the fish problem continues to elude me.
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If you make it idiot proof, someone will find a better idiot!
Well 100g crashed when I moved it. Starting a 50g cube now.
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Luckedout
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 12:16pm |
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Where do you get your fish from typically?
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-Ben
90g Mixed reef
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swiftra
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 12:17pm |
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AD and Bird World usually.
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If you make it idiot proof, someone will find a better idiot!
Well 100g crashed when I moved it. Starting a 50g cube now.
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Luckedout
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 1:51pm |
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hmmm.... this is kinda puzzling. If you can keep the cleaner shrimp, wrasse and mandarin going then I wouldn't think you would have any problems with other fish.
Here's a few things I do when I buy fish. First I make sure that if I buy them from the pet store that they have had the fish for a couple weeks. I don't like to buy fish that just came in because they are usually stressed to the max. I also ask them to feed the fish I'm going to buy. If a fish is stressed it won't eat. If I'm buying more than 1 fish I try to make sure they come out of the same tank. For me, whenever I can do this I generally have both fish survive. I think it reduces the stress.
When I acclimate I put them in a container with a lid so that I can keep it dark. I'll usually turn my lights off early in my tank as well so that my fish start to bed down for the night. This minimizes any aggression and keeps the new fish relaxed. I drip acclimate with a pretty high drip count for 15 minutes and then I will usually add the fish to the tank. I also feed right before i acclimate fish so that my fish are less aggressive as well.
One new thing I'm going to try is a fish acclimator. You can buy one from tcfab. I did a DIY acclimator for kicks and I am going to try it out when my new fairy wrasse arrives so I'll post up on if I like it or not.
really I can't see why you can't keep fish. My only concern would be the aggracrete since I don't have experience with it and I hear they leach phosphates or something.
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-Ben
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bugzme
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 2:07pm |
good acclimation and proper feeding will do the trick! I had the same problem for years and now that I do those 2 things fish are very happy!
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Jeff
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Jeremyw
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 2:17pm |
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PROPER FEEDING! Like Jeff said is the key! I couldnt keep them too... feed the right food and they will live!
Also do you spray smell good stuff in that room? How do you clean the outside of the tank (like the glass?)
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swiftra
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 2:21pm |
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Never had a problem with any of them eating either. Feed with garlic oil and several different types of frozen food everything from emerald entree to brine to mysis, even tried formula one and two flakes and pellets for a bit trying to make sure everybody is eating well. Always seemed that I could find something they would eat so I know I wasn't starving them. Would have cases of ich show up for a day or two but would go right away with the garlic oil. Everything that has died did not have ich when it passed except for one blue tang. That one had ich but was fat and happy and eating like mad the night before I found it dead. I'm stumped.
Edited by swiftra - October 13 2010 at 2:23pm
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If you make it idiot proof, someone will find a better idiot!
Well 100g crashed when I moved it. Starting a 50g cube now.
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swiftra
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 2:32pm |
Okay maybe I am missing something here. Proper feeding I've heard a couple of times so maybe I need it spelled out for me. I would like to think I know what I was doing since I have had fresh water fishes for years and years and a salt tank a couple of years ago but might be good to act like a brand new newbie and review for minute. So if you feel like spelling it out in baby steps for me I would much appreciate. 
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If you make it idiot proof, someone will find a better idiot!
Well 100g crashed when I moved it. Starting a 50g cube now.
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Jake Pehrson
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 2:40pm |
swiftra,
I knew someone that this same experience. Inverts did fine, but the fish kept dying. We eventually found out that is was the aragacrete. Once removed he no longer had problems. I am still not exactly sure what the aragacrete was doing to the fish. If you can't figure anything else out you may want to look at your rock.
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arthuriv
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 7:21pm |
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It could be the ich! You could try not putting any more fish in the tank for 2 to 3 months and any fish you do buy you could quarantine in a separate tank for 6 to 8 weeks.
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CapnMorgan
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 7:35pm |
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You really only have to run fallow for 6 weeks. Then you can add fish after treating them with copper/formalin in a separate tank for about a week. That will keep new ich from getting into the tank. I have added plenty of new fish to my tank, but after following this procedure I haven't had an outbreak of in about 6 months.
Edited by CapnMorgan - October 13 2010 at 7:35pm
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Steve My Old 180G Mixed ReefCurrently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8
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rwccomptech
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 7:59pm |
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IT does sound like ich, mandrains aren't susceptible to ich, i dont know if wrasses are or not, but i know that chromis aren't as well.
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Ron
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CapnMorgan
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 8:04pm |
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Wrasses can get ich, as can every other fish. Some are more prone to it than others.
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Steve My Old 180G Mixed ReefCurrently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8
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rwccomptech
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 8:15pm |
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Yeah and i know mandrains and chromis are prone to it
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Ron
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 8:33pm |
Regarding feeding, how about if we use the terms good, better and best? In the wild fish eat live stuff. I believe we can all agree that is best. Live foods include live algae and lettuce. Next best is frozen live foods and Nori(dried seaweed). The best frozen food that I have seen is called Emerald Entree. Finally, the worst foods are the dry prepared foods. Let's call these "good". I have visited a manufacturing facility to observe how these dry foods are made.  Okay now for some questions to help us get to the root of the fish death problem:  How much of the rock is aragocrete? Which pieces in that pic? The rock is stacked in an unusual way, kind of looks like slabs laying on top of each other. Can you shed some light on that? Is it just the pic? What is the pH at 5-6 AM, before the sun comes up and the lights turn on? Where do the presently living fish spend the night? You said there is macroalgae in the Refugium. How fast is it growing? What kind of light is over the Refugium. I assume it is on an RDP photoperiod, right? When does it turn on and when does it turn off?
Edited by Mark Peterson - October 13 2010 at 8:40pm
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lincsco
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 11:01pm |
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bump to follow conversation.
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Lincoln
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CapnMorgan
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 11:24pm |
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Do you run a UV or ozone on your tank?
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Steve My Old 180G Mixed ReefCurrently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8
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