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lskurys 
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 Topic: Low Ph
Posted: June 03 2012 at 2:55pm |
My ph has been dropping a little bit over the last few days. All of my other numbers look good just the ph has be dropping. Until a week ago my ph would be between 8.03 to 8.33. With in the last 3 days my ph has dropped like crazy. I am now 7.73 to 8.01 and my I am not sure if I should get some pickling lime. With the pickling lime I think I am 2-3 days out from being able to dose. Any ideas on how to up my ph sooner than later? Salt = 1.025 Akl/KH = 8.5 mag = 1350 Cal = 460 Anm, NO2, NO3 all 0
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220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's
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badfinger
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Posted: June 03 2012 at 3:01pm |
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Why are you 2-3 days out on dosing pickling lime?
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lskurys
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Posted: June 03 2012 at 3:04pm |
I though that you had to let it sit for a couple of days after mixing the lime with RO? I have read 2 sets of instructions and both said you needed the mix to sit. They were both old articals so the info could have changed.
Also is there a good place to get it around here?
Edited by lskurys - June 03 2012 at 3:04pm
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220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's
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badfinger
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Posted: June 03 2012 at 3:08pm |
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Its the same as kalkwasser, but walmart sells it in their canning section pretty cheap.mrs wages pickling lime. When I mix mine (all of my top off water is saturated in it) I try to let it sit for at least an hour. Never had any issues. You will see the water get really cloudy, then white stuff will precipitate to the bottom. Use it then.
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badfinger
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Posted: June 03 2012 at 3:10pm |
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Not the white stuff at the bottom but the clear liquid, doesn't have to be crystal clear, just not white as milk
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lskurys
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Posted: June 03 2012 at 3:22pm |
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Headed to Walmart now. Thanks.
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220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's
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lskurys
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 8:31am |
So I got my lime from walmart with out any problems. I mixed up a gallon of topoff water waited about 2 hours then slowly started adding the mix to the tank. It worked great the gallon bumped up my ph to 8.41. Over night my ph has dropped back down to 7.84.
Is this normal?
Is lime like Cal when your tank starts to use it just plan on using it all the time? I am would like to keep my ph more stable if I can.
Thanks for your help.
Edited by lskurys - June 04 2012 at 8:32am
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220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's
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Fatman
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 8:44am |
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Yeah, that's pretty normal. The pH bump is temporary and the tank normally drops pH over night.
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lskurys
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 8:53am |
ok with the ph drop what numbers should I try to keep my tank at? I have read that some people never watch there ph when they are checking there alk. Then I have also read that you want to try and keep your ph as close to 8.4 as you can. I am just trying to undersand what my goal should be with ph?
I just don't seem to understand ph. Most things we watch in out tank we have set rules for. os if X is low add Y. If Z shows up do a water change. lol
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220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's
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BobC63
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 9:46am |
Do you run central air at your home?
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- My Current Tank: 50g Starfire Cube Reef
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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lskurys
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 9:47am |
I do. May I ask why?
Now that I think about it that is about when I started seeing changes in the ph.
Edited by lskurys - June 04 2012 at 9:49am
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220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's
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BobC63
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 10:44am |
Bingo.
It is not the air conditioning itself that causes the pH drop, so don't worry.
It is the lack of new (fresh) air coming into the house, and the subsequent increase in carbon dioxide that gets trapped in the house due to all the windows and doors being closed (to keep the cool air inside). The higher CO2 value is causing the pH drop. Prior to a few days ago it was cool enough outside that you probably had the air off and a few windows open instead, right?
As far as your aquarium goes, if you run a skimmer, you can attach a length of airline tubing to the skimmers air intake line and then run it to a window or other source of outside air. That alone will mix in enough better - oxygenated air into your water to get the pH back to where it used to be.
In my case, I drilled a small hole in my floor and ran the extra tubing into my crawlspace and out to a foundation vent. My pH returned to 'normal' in about 4 hours, and hasn't moved since.
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- My Current Tank: 50g Starfire Cube Reef
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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lskurys
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 11:06am |
Wow Bob I did not even think of the AC being the issue. I am running a G2 skimmer. Do you think that adding a 1/4 water line to the air tube. will be enough or should I go with a larger air line?
Thanks again for your help I was about to pull my hair out. trying to think of a way to keep the ph up with lime.
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220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 11:21am |
 lskurys wrote:
ok with the ph drop what numbers should I try to keep my tank at? I have read that some people never watch there ph when they are checking there alk. Then I have also read that you want to try and keep your ph as close to 8.4 as you can. I am just trying to undersand what my goal should be with ph?
I just don't seem to understand ph. Most things we watch in out tank we have set rules for. os if X is low add Y. If Z shows up do a water change. lol |
Warning - Adjusting pH by adding chemicals is a very, very dangerous thing. Kalkwasser is for helping maintain Alk and Ca with the side effect of temporarily raising pH, but it must be added very slowly by dripping otherwise it will raise pH very fast and possibly kill everything. Also, as you have discovered, the increase in pH with Kalkwasser is very short lived. We should not consider pH as a goal, especially not a pH of 8.4. Just like all parameters, there is a reasonably safe range. For example: pH 8.0-8.3 (gas exchange, water turbulence and Alkalinity) Alk 8-14 dKH (add Alkalinity) Ca 350-500 ppm (add Calcium) Mg 1100-1400 ppm (add Mg) Ammonia <.5 ppm, Nitrite <20 ppm, Nitrate <30 ppm (immediately extend illumination photoperiod to grow algae, increase biofiltration for the long term) pH will follow the Alkalinity so long as all other things are constant. In this case the ability to get more O2 and discard CO2 may have been compromised by the sealed house. (Staying for an extended time in a sealed house can compromise human health as well  ) Gas exchange occurs at the water surface. The use of a skimmer increases the amount of water surface where gas exchange can occur so that's why Bob's suggestion is wonderful for a closed up house. 
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Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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lskurys
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 11:37am |
Thanks Mark.
I now have the start of a plan. I just need an idea of how large of a pipe I should run for fresh air. I have some extra 1/4" tubing around the house that I could use. I also have some 3/4 pvc that I could pipe through an outside wall.
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220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's
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BobC63
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 12:03pm |
I would use the next size up airline, and then you can just slip it over the end of the current airline...
BTW you can leave it installed like that year-round. Any outside air 'sucked in' during the winter months is not going to be so cold or such a high volume as to affect your water temperature.
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- My Current Tank: 50g Starfire Cube Reef
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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lskurys
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 12:13pm |
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Thanks Bob
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badfinger
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 6:14pm |
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People say not to worry to much about ph, but for me that is my tale tale sign of when other things are off, and since my controller doesn't have a consistent alk/cal test (and i really dont like testing)I use my ph as telling me when something is off. If my ph is reading high, usually means my probe needs recalibrated(always have a low ph for some reason, why I use kalk in all my top off), if my ph is reading low I need more alk added.
What's funny about what bob says, is that this time of year my ph has been higher and more stable. But then again I don't open the windows or turn on fans in the winter, but over the summer I do.... but I think I am going to try that airhose to the outside thing, think that will help me keep it stable all year. So thanks bob for the idea
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lskurys
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 7:27pm |
I must say worked like a charm. I used a 1/2" tube and ran it out side. just popped a hole through the wall and. put calking around the hole. then feed the air hose from my skimmer right in to the pipe. With in an hour my ph went from 7.86 to 8.40 and holding so far. I have a G2 skimmer so it is a bit over sized for the tank. Seems like my fish are happier and some corals that were acting off are seeming happy again. Thanks again Bob!!!  |
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BillyC
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Posted: June 04 2012 at 7:49pm |
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Wow this is really interesting! FWIW I have only checked my tank's pH only ONCE EVER in my whole life. Besides that, if all other params were normal I forgot out pH but if sticking airline from my skimmer to the window keeps something more stable then count me in.
Edited by BillyC - June 04 2012 at 7:50pm
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