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jfinch 
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 Topic: Glass Drilling
Posted: October 25 2003 at 4:02pm |
This post is image heavy...
Well, I needed 2 holes drilled in my 125g tank. That's $40 at the LFS, which isn't bad, but I like diy, so...
My first attempt was very cheap. I made a diy tube drill. A tube drill is usually make out of brass (or steel) and uses silicon carbide grit to grind the hole in the glass. Being the son of a plumber, I had these fittings just laying around. The grit is used in a rock tumbler polisher and can be found at some hobby stores or rock shops. Here's a couple pictures of the bit and grit.
This actually worked (drilled a hole in a practice glass piece), but wasn't as stable as I had hoped. The chuck end on the bit is 1/4" copper tubing. This tubing deforms easily when the chuck is tightened and also bends easy. I think a fix for this problem would be to fill the 1/4" tubing with epoxy to add rigidity. Anyway, before I got around to doing this, I came across a guy selling 1 3/4" diamond bits for only $28 (shipping included!). So I bought a diamond bit and put it to work today.
Here's the bit and location of one of the holes:
I built a water dam out of plumber's puddy. Used a portable drill press. Here's a picture of the drilling in progress:
And here's the finished hole:
And finally, here's the tank with the two holes:
$28 bucks well spent if you ask me! Now it's into the woodshop to build the stand and hood, more to come...
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GonZo
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Posted: October 25 2003 at 9:16pm |
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Does this mean you are open for holey buisness for a little ROI?
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Cortney (West Jordan)
The joy of discovery is certainly the liveliest that the mind of man can ever feel. - Claude Bernard
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jfinch
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Posted: October 26 2003 at 9:23am |
I might be talked into it  . I'm a bit hesitant to actually offer the service as I would feel very bad if I broke your tank  (the procedure is not without it's risks).
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GonZo
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Posted: October 26 2003 at 11:49am |
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Heck, from what I've read, breathing is not without its risks. Unfortunately, The tank I want drilled has water in it. There might be others willing to put their tank in your capable hands.
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Cortney (West Jordan)
The joy of discovery is certainly the liveliest that the mind of man can ever feel. - Claude Bernard
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jfinch
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Posted: October 26 2003 at 8:45pm |
Anyone here running a closed loop system? Many people drill their tanks for closed loop. I can't really think of any benefit to drilling the tank for this? Am I missing something, have I overlooked anything. Now is the time to drill if so (as Cortney points out, it's much harder once there's water in it  ).
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Carl
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Posted: October 27 2003 at 7:42am |
JF,
Possibly you can clear something up for me. I have seen many posts referring to a "closed-loop system". In aquaria, is there such a thing as an open-loop? A closed-loop in my industry simply means capturing and processing something for reuse in an application. In the "water world" it generally means applying effluent, capturing the effluent, processing the effluent and reapplying which is exactly what we do with our aquatic systems.
If there is something else, please let me know... Tanks! I mean thanks!
Edited by Carl
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In Syracuse
"I believe that forgiving them is God's function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting." - Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: October 27 2003 at 8:06am |
If I am correct the closed loop is where we take water out of the aquarium via a hose or pipe and run it through an external pump and back into anywhere in the aquarium without it ever touching the atmosphere. The purpose is to create water movement without the use of visible powerheads. The advantage is more water movement wherever the plumbing directs it.
The open loop system is one where the water leaves the system but at one or more points is open to the atmosphere. This creates the need to design it so that a power outage or blocked line does not create a flood on the floor. (Spouses hate floods more than we do!) This system is used for sumps and refugiums. The reason why some people drill their tanks in this instance is to position the overflow where they want it.
For anyone unfamiliar with using sumps and refugium, drilling may be convenient, but is not necessary because there are overflow box designs where floods do not happen. FYI - I have a DIY design written up and illustrated for anyone who requests it.
Does that explain it?
Thanks to Jon for illustrating how he drilled his tank. That looks pretty slick!  A five star job.
Edited by Mark Peterson
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Carl
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Posted: October 27 2003 at 8:39am |
Mark,
Thanks... It kindof clears it up for me. Just something that I'll need to "come to terms" with... get it? Hahaha... OK, I know, keep my day job.
Not that it matters, but this is why I was confused...
closed-loop
Pronunciation: (klOzd'lOOp'), [key]
—adj. Engin.
1. of or pertaining to a processing system in which effluents are recycled, that is, treated and returned for reuse.
2. of or pertaining to an automatic control system operating on a feedback principle. Cf. feedback (def. 2).
Edited by Carl
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In Syracuse
"I believe that forgiving them is God's function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting." - Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf
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Carl
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Posted: October 27 2003 at 8:42am |
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By the way, Jon... great job! I need a 125 drilled next weekend... got me thinking... Nah, I'll just pay someone to do it. That way the "you break it, you bought it" policy can be in effect.
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In Syracuse
"I believe that forgiving them is God's function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting." - Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf
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jfinch
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Posted: October 27 2003 at 9:05am |
I'll expound on Marks comments a bit:
Open loop: water falls from the aquarium to an open sump. Then is pumped back into the tank. The potential engery (pressure) of the 4 ft fall from the aquarium is lost. In this case the return pump needs to provide enough head pressure to overcome both the distance from the sump to the tank (say 4 ft) and the piping frictional losses (say 2 ft).
Closed loop: Water is pulled out of the tank directly into the suction of a pump where it is then pumped back into the tank. The potential energy (pressure) of the 4 ft fall from the aquarium is recovered. The 4 feet of water pressure dropping down from the tank is "available" at the suction side of the pump. This has the advantage of increasing the flow rate if compared to a sump design. So the only head pressure losses that the pump sees are do to friction (say 1 ft through the suction line and 2 ft through the discharge line = total of only 3 ft).
This can be done easily by just piping a u-bend with 90° elbows and pipe out of the tank to the pump and back into the tank. It's self priming in the event of a power failure (the syphon is not lost). The drawback is you have a couple pipes sticking into the aquarium. What other drawbacks might there be?
I feel your pain regarding the use of the term "closed loop". Are you in the wastewater treatment industry? For these folks any time you recycle/circulate it becomes "closed loop".
Thanks for the comments regarding the holes... How many holes you need drilled? Are drilling the bottom or back? Can they drill from the inside?
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Carl
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Posted: October 27 2003 at 9:47am |
JF, I will be drilling from the bottom with a feed and return. I am not sure about how they will drill, I will digress and refer to Fire Shrimp for that. It's his 125 that will soon be mine  . Can't wait.
Yes, water processing is one of the things that I do. However, I believe the term to be relevant to the petroleum industry as well. The automated ability to recover product for reuse in a process is considered closed-loop. Industry does it with glycol allot. So, it's difficult to break the thought cycle regarding terms.
IME, the processes described are both technically Closed-Loop. At no time does water leave or discharge from the system. The difference between the two being gravity VS. mechanical on the inlet side of the sump. That's basically it IMO and if I am understanding the explanation correctly. There is an air gap or what could be considered a siphon break in the "open-loop" configuration.
But either way... it's ok with me. I will be picking brains soon regarding this plumbing configuration. I don't want to reinvent the wheel and this form of feed and return is slightly smaller than I am used to. OK, a lot smaller.
Thanks!
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In Syracuse
"I believe that forgiving them is God's function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting." - Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf
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jfinch
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Posted: October 27 2003 at 10:49am |
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Shane H
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Posted: October 27 2003 at 3:54pm |
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The term is loosely used in the boating world as well. A closed loop cooling system indicates lake water is not circulated through the engine for cooling purposes. Rather, a system very similar to your car is used. Coolant is retained and circulated over and over again, rather than being pumped from the lake, through the engine and again into the lake.
Mark's explanation may fit this scenario a bit better.
Anyway - I'll take any chance to talk about boats .... Pray for snow!
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JodyR
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Posted: November 01 2003 at 10:15am |
 Mark Peterson wrote:
For anyone unfamiliar with using sumps and refugium, drilling may be convenient, but is not necessary because there are overflow box designs where floods do not happen. FYI - I have a DIY design written up and illustrated for anyone who requests it. |
Mark, I would be interested in seeing a copy of the DIY overflow box if you would not mind sending me one or posting it here. Thanks.
Jody
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<font color="red">I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without all of the sponges?
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Posted: November 02 2003 at 11:20am |
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Mark I also would like to see a copy of your DIY overflow box.
Thanks Mitch
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