help! cyano....(now with pics)

i did a search and read the posts, but still can't figure out how to solve this and have done some extensive research online with no luck.

I have had cyano for like 1-2 weeks now and it is rediculous, i don't know how long it takes to get rid of naturally, but i thought i'd say all the things i've tried and see if anyone can suggest anything else. I have a 40g, running for about 5 months, i don't think i added stuff too fast, so i am pretty sure i can rule that out. I run an aquaclear filter. I am wishing i drilled the tank and got a sump, but it is too late now right? my flow consists of 1 aquaclear filter, maxijet 1200 with hydor, maxijet 1200 that shoots water into my aquaC remora protein skimmer, and i bought a korella 1 (seems kinda weak) just barely thinking it was lack of flow issues. my clean up crew is weak, 2 turbos, 6-8 astreas, 2 nassarius, 2 nerites, 2 crabs, and a sea cucumber. I need to add more, but i am afraid that if i do, it will feed the cyano more (is this true?). I am running a brand new light system, and just finished acclimating them to it about a week or two ago. so the MH and actinics are brand new, i am wondering if they gave me the wrong spectrum of actinics, so i am in the process of trying it without the actinics to see if that kills it off.

I did:
increase flow (bought a korella 1)
add a competitor (chaeto, been in there for 2 days) [how long does it take before you notice effects?]
run activated carbon
run filter floss
reduce feeding to once a day instead of twice.
match test results with my kit and aquariums, apparently nitrate and phosphates are less than 5 (he wouldn't tell me an exact number but said it was almost clear, and my test says 0)
keep my skimmer running 24/7 pulling out nastiness (it's dark greenish red water in the skimmer cup?)

my weekly water changes of 10% seem to have no effect on it.

yet the problem still persists. it has decorated my sand, encrusted my rocks, some of my corals, and is starting to somewhat grow by and a little bit on my chaeto.

i don't want to use slime remover because it is a temp fix, i am trying to figure out what is causing it. I know clams need pristine water quality, but i was wondering, would it be smart to add it as another method of filtering out some of the nutrients?

I would take some pictures, but i can't figure out the whole camera techniques with the stupid high lighting. I have tried white balance and other things on the camera, and they still come out blue.

I am all ears, ask away if you have any more questions or specifics you need and i will try to answer them the best i can.

thanks!

Edited by Goonter - August 11 2008 at 8:00pm

phoenix 14k 250w DE

i got some clear photos, this is 2 days after i stirred up the sand really well.

Your tank isn't that old. I think it's a normal part of your tank maturing. Physically break it up, scrape it off the glass. It will go away.

I dont know if this has anything to do with the cyano, but there seems to be a large amount of air bubbles present.

Goonter,

Bob and I generally see eye to eye and he has done a great job of organizing the important facets of this problem and pointing to the solutions.
I'm just going to simplify this a little bit for you by emphasizing the following in order of their importance to me. If you focus only on these five points the algae problem will clear up within a week and if you are diligent in understanding and using these principles you will never have a problem with it again, ever.

carlso63 with Marks comments in blue wrote: 7) Feeding. I'd forget about even a once-a-day feeding for now and go down to 2 X per week for the next 2 weeks to one month. Although you may think that would be "starving" your fish, trust me - they won't starve. The idea being a lowering the level of nutrients available to feed that cyano... No doubt you found this the hardest advice to take, but unfortunately your overfeeding is the main reason you have this algae problem in the first place. This is not just an Cyanobacteria bloom, this is a general lack of proper control. I'm not criticizing. You're new to the hobby. We all learned by this same trial and error. You are lucky to have this MB at your command. When I started my first reef in 1993, there was no such help. My best advice and most effective solution, as always, and this can be found in any search of my writings about controlling problem algae, is to completely stop feeding for 5 days and feed half as much after that. Also look here at this topic specifically devoted to solving a cyano problem: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26686 and for more information regarding keeping a truly healthy reef aquarium see this: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 5) As far as cleanup I would add maybe 20 - 30 small hermits and another 20 snails That one lone snail is pitifully insufficient to clean the algae that is growing on rock and glass. Assuming there are a few snails asleep under the rocks, I guarantee that you do not have enough. I wouldn't worry about hermits right now but would add 15-20 more snails ASAP.  1) Incoming water quality. Do you use Tap water, RO water, or RO/DI water? I'll bet you already use purified water, but just how pure is it? What is the TDS level of that water?   4) Adding some chaeto is fine; be aware that it will take time to uptake some of those nutrients - alot longer than 2 days. There is not nearly enough Chaeto and it's not in a good position. I'd triple or quadruple the amount and temporarily place it front and center on the highest point of rocks. 8) Water changes. I'd up it to 25% per week (that's 10g for you, right?) for the next 5 weeks straight. However, see Item 1) first. If your incoming water is a source of nutrients, then WCs will not help much - and may, in fact, worsen the problem. Most water changes add nutrients to the tank that then have to be eaten by something. Cyanobacteria is such a strong organism that it usually grows just as well or better after a water change. A crazy fact of aquarium maintenace that most new hobbyists disbelieve is that, coupled with other proper care, 10% monthly water changes are totally sufficient for keeping things healthy and thriving.

We're not finished!

Okay, then the very most important thing you could do is to simply stop feeding for 5 days and feed half as much after that. As Bob said, the fish will be just fine, in fact they will be better for it. Overfeeding creates problems in filtration, in fish digestive systems and overall health of the aquarium. Are you feeding dry foods

You asked whether more snails would cause more algae problems. Only if a lot of them die. Snails are the answer to preventing algae problems. If you have more snails, you can feed more and have more fish because the waste grows algae which the sanils eat and the circle of life grows larger.

With reduced feeding the need for additional snails temporarily diminishes, but FYI... if you live near Centerville/Bountiful, the place that always seems to have the best snails is MSM.  They usually have all the best kind, like Astrea, Margarita and Cerith. Get some of each. They usually have decent sized ones for a good price. I recommend calling them to check their selection and price. Also note their open hours are different, like in the past they have not been open all day and were closed on Monday. MSM is the largest reef aquarium maintenance company in Utah. They do about 200 reef aquariums. The phone number and location is in the Local Fish Stores button up there on the top left of this page. Tell 'em Mark sent you. Oh and you can get good RO water while you are there.

The Walmart RO water could easily be bad. I've bought water from grocery stores many times, in between times when I was moving and didn't have my RO unit set up. Half the time that water was not 0-20 ppm like it should be but was 40-100 ppm. Take some to a LFS like MSM, to get it checked for TDS. (total dissolved solids, the way to know if the water is properly purified .) There are others here like me that have TDS testers. Feel free to ask for help from them.

Going back and looking again at the pics, I'd say you have a small overheating problem as well. What is the temp at dawn and again at dusk? MH lights put off a lot of heat. The answer is simple. Let us know the two temperatures and we'll help you solve that problem as well.

You may find it quicker to call me if you want clarification about all this.


Edited by Mark Peterson - August 12 2008 at 10:59am

Temperature:
I don't know what thermometer you are using, but my Coralife thermometer reads a full 5 degrees low. I know this by checking against a high dollar certified FLUKE thermometer, with a temp probe. I now have a $2 glass suction cup thermometer in there as backup (cheap and a little more difficult to read, but I think it is more reliable and accurate).

well i had my water TDS tested, i have been using water with a 20 ppm... not too bad right? my new top off water is now 7 ppm, and i was about to buy some of the LFS water, until they tested it and it was 110, so i bought some chemi clean red slime remover as i am on my last leg, i plan on dosing it tomorrow, even though i feel really bad about doing it, i feel like it's my only out, but i have some questions first:

1) i need to buy an air pump, how powerful of one?
2) i dissolve it in water before adding to the aquarium, does that mean i mix salt water, mix in saltwater, do a water change with that in it?
3) it says after 48 hours, do a 20% water change minimum, what do you guys suggest?