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Refugium for food propagation

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smacky View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 02 2010 at 3:35am
I'm interested to hear from people who have used refugiums to successfully raise live meaty food like phytoplankton, copepods, brine shrimp, etc. for your display tank's inhabitants.
What did you have success with and how? How much food was produced and how much did it reduce the amount you fed? Would colonies/eggs need to be restocked, or were they self-sustaining?
Thanks in advance for your input.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2010 at 3:43am
I have tons of copepods, amphipods, as well as hundreds of different sponges in my refugium. I never really have to replenish them and some get sucked up to the main tank to feed some of the inhabitants. The copepods and amphipods make their way into the display, and some of the larval stage sponges also get sucked into the display where they will sometimes grow but are caught by corals most of the time. I wouldn't count on being able to cut down to much on feeding your fish, but my corals get plenty to eat without to much target feeding. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2010 at 8:51pm
RDP Refugiums don't always grow a visible population of bugs, until you look at it during the day when the lights are usually off.
I have done Benthic Refugiums(darkened) and my brother did one underneath his RDP Refugium. It may be the reason his Pipefish lived for 5 years.

One night a guest and I were sitting next to the tanks talking fish talk after the aquarium lights went off. In the light of the room we suddenly noticed my Chromis vigorously eating some bugs that had come out into the water column at night.

Sandbeds in both the display and the RDP Refugium produce all kinds of worm larvae (even Bristleworm larvae) and young bugs(amphipods and copepods). Many plantonic organisms come out at night. Night pictures in the ocean show just how much that is true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smacky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2010 at 12:30am
Mark, I've actually been trying to work out the best way to implement a cryptic and a RDP zone in a refugium. The tank is in the early planning stages right now, but I am planning on having a basement fish room for the sump/fuge, so space wouldn't be a really big issue.

Would it work to have the water pass through a cryptic zone with lots of LR and LS and then go through the RDP portion with the macro and a small amount of LS and LR rubble before it got to the return pump? Or would the light in the macroalgae part (which might even be left on all the time) keep critters from finding their way to the return pump.

Would it be better to have two separate refugiums or water paths in the fuge to keep them apart until they got to the return pump, or even two separate return pumps at the end of those two routes?

Am I over complicating this?

Thanks both of you for your input so far. I'm so glad I found the WMAS before I started buying things and setting things up. I'm really looking forward to the meetings and seeing how people set their tanks up, but this forum alone is worth the membership fee I paid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2010 at 1:32am
You really don't need two refugia. You can create a cyptic zone fairly easy in one tank. For example: in my system there is so much chaeto that it blocks the light from the lower portion of the refugium which is filled with about 2" of fine oolitic sand and plenty of LR. The rock is absolutely covered in sponges, and any time you shine a light into the lower portion there are thousands of pods that scatter. You really shouldn't leave your fuge light on all the time. The algae won't grow as fast if you do. Like any organism the algae needs a period of darkness to recharge. So part of the benefits of the RPD schedule is that during the day when the lights on the fuge are off the cryptic bugs and larval sponges will enter the water column and be sucked into the display which will feed your corals.

Edited by CapnMorgan - June 04 2010 at 1:37am
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2010 at 8:01pm
I agree with Steve, though a separate cryptic/benthic refugium can be really cool because the entire tank fills with sponge growing all different directions. In my fishy travels I would see a bit of sponge at the LFS or someones tank and bring a piece home to see how many different kinds would grow together.

I'm sure either way would work.

This one was three tanks. It started with a customized extended window sill of a south facing window to hold a major macroalgae filled 15 gal tank. This overflowed to a 30 gal fish and coral tank, which overflowed to the 10 gal cryptic zone tank where a powerhead pushed the water back up to the 15 gal in the sunlit window.  This was in the days before digital cameras, but I believe I have a VHS tape of it. It was awesome if I do say so myself.
Embarrassed
It was the first time I saw Sargassum/Kelp growing from LR (~1997) and growing on that Sargassum were some kind of hydroids being eaten by a curious looking kind of Nudibranch. I'll have to look for that tape and find someone to help me transfer it to digital and post it.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smacky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2010 at 9:52pm
One more question. Would going through a large pump and getting pushed through 9 feet of head space kill the organisms I'm pumping up to a display tank?

Mark, I'm looking forward to looking at that video. I'd be happy to get it transferred for you when you find it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fishoutawater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2010 at 9:55pm
Would dosing phyto be a way to augment all the other populations, pods, rotifiers, mysis, etc.
Some day, when I grow up,...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2010 at 10:18am
Pump Impellers do not damage tiny inverts. Think of it as though you were sitting in an auditorium of water. The auditorium walls are the impeller. Water is different than air. When the walls move in the same direction the water and everything in the water moves like a solid block. Everything in that block of water stays in it's exact position. Only the few organisms that are at the ends of the impeller can get damaged. John Walsh explained it to us this way a few years ago. John is an expert in the field. He is the guy that, in 1988, set up C-Quest, the Marine ornamental breeding facility in Puerto Rico http://www.c-questfarms.com/ He also taught the Pacific islands to farm Tridacnid Clams. Clap

The way to get lots of stuff growing in a reef aquarium is to provide plenty of live food. At the bottom of the food chain is live Phytoplankton. When I was farming coral, I fed ~5 gallons of Phyto every week, which created a partial water change situation in my 140+ gal system that was being auto topped off at night with full strength Kalkwasser.Smile


Edited by Mark Peterson - June 04 2010 at 10:28am
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