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Mark Peterson 
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 Topic: Has anyone used this for Phosphate control?
Posted: December 16 2007 at 8:56am |
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dkle
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Posted: December 16 2007 at 10:37am |
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My cousin in California uses it. He used the phosphate probe to make sure that the measured levels were accurate. Sure enough, his phosphate level quickly went to zero. I am however very skeptical of this; because it doesn't take phosphate out of the system. Maybe it binds to phosphate or precipitates it or something.
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Boomer
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Posted: December 17 2007 at 12:39am |
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Mark
I would guess it is Lanthanum Chloride. The Lanthanum disassociates from the Chloride in water and picks up PO4 and becomes Lanthanum Phosphate, which settles out.
The bonding rate to Phosphate is a ratio of 1:1. Simply put, it takes 1 ppm Lanthanum to remove 1 ppm Phosphate from water. Watch you Alk if you use it, as it can also produce some Lanthanum Carbonate. The other issue is it can cloud the water.
One of the tricks is, once added, to push the tank water through a 10- 50 micro filter to catch the particluates, thus greatly reducing the settling out.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: December 17 2007 at 11:18am |
How long will it stay Lanthanum Phosphate and does that compound cause any bad effects short and long term?
A quick google search makes me leary of adding it to a system. Long term effects are not known. It could create problems in the proper and necessary uptake of phosphate for a number of organisms. The inability to effectively remove it from the system also concerns me. I'm advising against it's use. I already know how to control algae using natural methods. I'll stick to that.
Edited by Mark Peterson - December 17 2007 at 11:28am
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Boomer
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Posted: December 17 2007 at 12:41pm |
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Mark, it prodcues an insoluble solid for the most part but that does not mean if the pH drops tin the sand bed it will not dissolve to some degree. As far as any Lanthanum having any effect on marine life we have no clue, only to add that some public aquariums do use it, have for years and I have "heard" of no problems. The stuff that CarribSea sells for PO4 removal is also Lanthanum Chloride. I also do not recommend it, nor does Randy.
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: December 17 2007 at 12:45pm |
Let me get this straight.
I can pour this in my tank. It will lower the phosphate levels by precipitating out phosphate into a form which will either get trapped in my filter sock or settle into the substrate. And it doesn't bother my fish or corals.
Why not try it and use it??? Sounds fine to me.
Adam
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dkle
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Posted: December 17 2007 at 5:28pm |
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I don't think using 10-50 micron filter is practical at all. The filter will get clogged up with particulates way bigger than that before it catches any of the phosphate precipitants. For all intents and purposes, phosphates stay in the system.
If somebody can show me that it will stay in solid forms and not convert back to soluble ions, I'll be willing to buy the products.
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If you can't bedazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bs!
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Boomer
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Posted: December 18 2007 at 12:15am |
Yes Adam and no dkle. There are guys doing as such. The sock is removed and cleaned every couple of days. As I said, it is an insoluble solid but I'm not about to say it is 100 % insoluble and more than I will say that 100% quartz sand is. Even silic sand has a solubilty in seawater. There are crap loads of reefers using Lanthanum Chloride and have been for many years. It is not some new product. I might add that some of the granular non-GFO PO4 removers are its sister, Lanthanum Carbonate. I might add also that 50 microns is not all that small and is the size if silt particles or very fine sand. My advice to mosthas been to start with 50 microns.
If somebody can show me that it will stay in solid forms and not convert back to soluble ions
Just look up the solubilty of Lanthanum Phosphate.
Here are some old posts from 4 years ago. And there are many more.
http://www.aqualitysymposium.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6&start=0
Edited by Boomer - December 18 2007 at 12:18am
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dkle
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Posted: December 18 2007 at 12:20am |
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Sweet! Learned a new thing everyday. Thanks Boomer.
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If you can't bedazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bs!
Dinhkim Le - Procrastinator extra-ordinare
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