Utah Reefs Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - New 17 Gallon - Filtration Tips Please?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

New 17 Gallon - Filtration Tips Please?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
dianatabor View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: April 24 2003
Location: Layton, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 183
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dianatabor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New 17 Gallon - Filtration Tips Please?
    Posted: July 03 2003 at 11:15pm

Hi everyone!  I'm almost ready to setup my new ~17 gallon reef aquarium.  Now, before I get too excited, I just want to ask some last minute questions on my setup, specifically the filtration.  Here's what I have:

  • ~17 gallon acrylic aquarium (hex front, flat back, 30" long, 12" deep, 12" high)
  • PC/Moon-Lite lighting with 2x65W (1 - 10,000k premium daylight, 1 - ultra-actinic, 2 - 24hr moon-lites)
  • Power Sweep 212 (rotating powerhead)
  • Penguin 170 Bio-Wheel Power Filter
  • Algone Pouches for the filter (supposed to be good for small tanks to remove nitrates and reduce ammonia; see algone.com for more info)

I plan to have a sand bed that is about 2.5 - 3", made up of about 1/3 live sand from a LFS.  I also plan to add about 17 pounds of live rock.  I will be using water from my six stage RO/DI filtration system for water changes.

I had planned to get a larger tank, but ended up winning this one on the Tenacor website.  I know that a tank this small can be challenging, but I'm determined to make this work.  This is where I need your expert advice...

First, the Bio-Wheel - should I keep it or lose it?  I've had LFSs give me conflicting recommendations.  One person said to keep it...  That way if I ever have to use it for a nursing tank, the bacteria will be well established.  Another person told me to definitely take the wheel out and use the filter with only the mechanical and chemical filtration...  That person said that the bio-wheel would actually make the water quality worse?  What has your experience been or what do you think? 

(Just so you don't think I'm a moron for buying the bio-wheel filter without doing this research first, I should probably let you know that my first thought for this new tank was to set it up as fresh water.  The more research I did, the more confident I became on making salt water work.  Even though it's still brand new, the filter not returnable.)

Next, I'm not including a protein skimmer, UV filter, or sump tank in my setup.  Do you think this will be a problem?  I plan to have soft corals and would like two or three small fish in the future.  Should I be looking at adding a protein skimmer when I can?  The ones I've looked at are rated for tanks much bigger than mine.

I've been reading everything I can in books and on Reef Central, but it only seems to leave me more confused.  I'd really appreciate any advice you have to offer.  Thanks in advance!!

Back to Top
dianatabor View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: April 24 2003
Location: Layton, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 183
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dianatabor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 11:25pm
(Oops!  Did I type Tenacor?  I meant to type Tenecor.  Man, they give me a beautiful aquarium, and I can't even get their name right!  How embarrassing!)
Back to Top
WhiteReef View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2002
Location: Magna, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 1014
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WhiteReef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2003 at 5:33am

Even though I have never used a bio wheel, from what I have read on different forums they appear to work fine.  The only thing to watch out for would be a build up of denitrus and such in it.  When that happens you just need to clean it or replace the filter media.

Also there are probably others on this forum that have a small tank of either your size or smaller that could provide better insight as I have never ran a tank that small.  The big thing to watch out for with smaller tanks from what I have read is the change in temp, salinity, and quality.  In smaller tanks the swings for each one can some times be very dramatic if you are not careful in how you maintain the system. Other than that it looks good to me, and I am curious about the algone filters you have and how well they work.

----------------

Richard

Former 47G Column Reef, Magna
20" x 18" x 31"H
Back to Top
dianatabor View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: April 24 2003
Location: Layton, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 183
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dianatabor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2003 at 9:06am

Thanks for the great info.  This might be a stupid question, but how will I know when denitrus is building up on the bio-wheel?  What will it look like?  I've the heard that the good bacteria layer that builds up on the bio-wheel always looks bad, so how will I know if I have something growing that will negatively impact my water quality?  Is there something specific that I should be watching for?

I have heard that water changes can be tricky with small tanks, so I'm trying to minimize problems everywhere I can.  I plan to test all major water parameters each time I do a water change, at least until I'm confident that I have a good thing going.  (I haven't bought a test kit yet - Can anyone recommend a good one?)  I've invested in a refractometer to test salinity and a pH meter, so I can test accruately and often.  I also have a spare heater and thermometer, to minimize water temp differences.  I even picked up a TDS (total disolved solids) meter to verify that the water from my RO/DI filter system is clean (so I'll know when system filters will need to be changed).  Hmmm...  Am I missing anything?

This might be major overkill, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.  The area I feel that I have the least control over is the quality of the water inside the tank itself.  That's why I'm looking for all of the good advice I can get.

As far as the Algone pouches go, I'll let everyone know how well, or poorly, they work.  It sounds like the company really knows water quality, so I have my fingers crossed.  If anyone wants to read about how it works with reef tanks, you can go to http://www.algone.com  (Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to promote it, since I haven't even used it yet.  Just giving more info in case anyone is interested.)

Back to Top
Marcus View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: August 28 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1398
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2003 at 9:53am

The only time you ever have to replace the bio-wheel is if it is damaged physically.  Even then you can fix them sometimes.  Why throw away all that good bacteria.  If you read the manual that comes with it, it will tell you that you do not have replace it.  I do not replace the pads until I have washed them out a couple times.  They usually last six months or so if you wash them out when they get plugged up.  I have also seen peolpe take the pads out and fill up the back with bio-balls.  I do not have any first hand knowledge of this so maybe someone else can speak on it.

Water changes should not be that difficult unless you have corals too close to the surface that come out of the water when you drain it down.  Another thing to watch closely is your water level.  Since there is is less water in a 17 gal tank than there is in a 125 gal tank, when water evaporates it makes more of a difference.  A good way to keep your salinity and other water levels the same is to keep up on your top-off.

A good brand of test kit to purchase is Salifert.  They seem to be the most complicated and the most accurate.  Hagen also makes some test kits that are very popular.

Sounds like you are on your way with a good start.

Back to Top
ewaldsreef View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: December 07 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3752
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ewaldsreef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2003 at 4:13pm

 I have a 10 gallon that I added a refuge to. That may be overkill but my tank was definetly healthier after adding it. It is also very cheap in small tank and makes water changes easier on the system since you have more volume.

 Marcus is right about the bio wheel. If for some reason you get detritus on it which your filter pad should remove before it hits the wheel. Just rinse it off.

 I also likle the skilter for a small tank. It has a built in skimmer that for a small system works well. I have run one on my 10 for 2 years and it works great.  Above all the best filtration I have found is live rock. I have a 5 gallon at work that is very sucsessful and relies mainly on live rock for filteration.

Contact me for professional aquarium maintenance and localy grown coral frags. [URL=http://www.aquatitranquility.com][/URL]

Back to Top
jfinch View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 06 2003
Location: Pleasant Grove
Status: Offline
Points: 7067
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2003 at 5:12pm

Regarding the biowheel, do whatever you want.  Personally, I wouldn't use.  The worst thing that could happen from use of the biowheel is excessive nitrates, perhaps the added benefit of excess nitrifying bacteria is justified in a small tank *shrug*.  If you do use it, it will be very dirty (only on the wheel itself), this is normal, don't clean/wash it off.

I've got a 20 gallon reef.  I do nothing to equalize temperatures when doing water changes.  I mix the salt up about 10 minutes before adding it to the tank.

I agree, the Salifert kits are very good for the money.

The algone has the smell of snake-oil to me.  Definately not needed, imo.

Back to Top
Sarnack View Drop Down
Guest
Guest


Joined: August 20 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 324
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarnack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2003 at 5:44pm

On my work tank (7 gallon minibow) I only use a hang on the back power filter but ony have 1 fish and some softies.  Seems to work well enough for a tank this size with this bio-load.

On my home tank (17 gallon acrylic) I use a skimmer (clone of the CPR backpak) in the biult in 3gallon sump area.  I have 2 cardinals and mixed corals.  I also run carbon to remove chemicals excreted by the corals.  And I've had pretty good success.

If this were my tank I'd dump the power filter for a good skimmer like a Remora or a still OK but less pricey Prizm Pro or if going without a skimmer is more your style I'd go with a refugium.  And start looking at adding and auto-topoff cause adding water daily is a PITA!

There is my 2 cents...

Back to Top
Jake Pehrson View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: June 13 2002
Location: Murray, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 4279
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Pehrson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2003 at 9:13am

I would keep the Bio-wheel.

As for the Algone I agree with Jon.  It sounds like Snake-Oil.  I would like to know exactly what it is.

I wouldn't worry about a skimmer or UV on this small of tank.  A sump would be beneficial, but not necessary.

My $.02

Oh, and just for the record I have kept many small reef tanks.

Jake Pehrson

Murray

coralplanet.com

:)
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group

Pet Store
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2004 at 3:29pm
I just replaced my bio-wheel because I suspected it of being encrusted with calcium and the like. I set up a new aquarium with a used bio-wheel and it just never wanted to work right for me. I've had 2 bacteria blooms and the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate do not want to go down for anything. The constant water changes are killing me. The ph will fall significantly in a short amount of time. I've tried everything, so I guess this is my last resort.
Back to Top
Kull View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 24 2003
Location: Zimbabwe
Status: Offline
Points: 594
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2004 at 4:04pm

misanthrope, I think that you have other problem going ont hat are not the result of the biowheel.

How is your temp?  How much do you feed?  How often are you doing water changes, How old/new is our tank.  What are your Amonia, Nitrite and Nitrate levels?

Do you have live rock?  How long has it been alowed to cure?  IMO it looks your tank is still cycling.

"So this is what gives meaning to your life." -Unknown

Daniel in Santaquin
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group

Pet Store
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2004 at 5:07pm

The tank is about 2 months old. Freshwater, 20 gal. The temp is a constant 80-81. Tests tell me that Ammonia is over 4.0, Nitrate 160! and nitrite is over 10! I've been changing the water every other day to help even this out. I add some aquarium salt to help with nitrate/nitrite. Stress Zyme to help with the wheel. alk Buffering is low so I add some seachem. god help me and my fish. thanks for your reply Kull

Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2004 at 12:11am
This MB is for saltwater aquarium hobbyists.

Nevertheless, your freshwater problem is probably due to too many fish/too much feeding and not enough biological filtration.

You need to reduce the amount of fish and/or feeding and increase biological action.
Biological filtration is done by plants and bacteria. If you have no plants get some quick. If you do not have at least 2 inches of undisturbed gravel, get some quick! Then find out more about filtration and bioload in the freshwater aquarium from a book or another place on the web.
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.