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clown_fish
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Topic: Newbie need advice in dosing kalk Posted: December 23 2004 at 7:01am |
Hello all this is my first post . I am in this hobby for a while now and has been reading a lots from here and there. I just recently getting back into this hobby and reset up my 180 gallon tank. The tank has been up for about 2 months. It is doing great so far, it start to have coraline algea. I am currently mixing kalkwasser as to replace top off water evaporate. I try to do monthly 10%-20% water change. I believed I drip one drop per second for about 9 hrs per day (guessing about more than 1 gallon per day) but this didn't seem to keep up with my water evaporation. Any way, I am mixing kalkwasser with vinegar (15ml of vinegar and 1tsp of kalkwasser per gallon of water), I start with the low dose first since my tank is currently doesn't have much of the coral yet. I will increase the kalkwasser when I introduce more coral. As I know that dosing kalkwasser should only occur at night when the light are out. So my question is that since most of my water evaporation occurr during the day time, can I set it drip during the day time so that it will keep up with evaporation, or just increase the drip rate to get the same volume of water evaporation. Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance for any advice.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: December 23 2004 at 7:32am |
Welcome to the WMAS MB. Will you be attending meetings to learn more than you ever thought possible?!
 What is the pH in the tank during the morning and evening and what is it at 5AM? If it's lower than 8.1 at any of these times, Kalkwasser can be or should be dripped before and during that time.
I add almost a gallon/day of kalkwasser without trying to increase it's saturation with vinegar. (Vinegar adds nutrients to the tank) Then I still add almost a gal/day of purified water to complete the top-off. I have lots of soft and hard coral with coralline algae growth in my 100+ gal system. Feel free to call and come see how I do things.
Your comment about when evaporation occurs makes me wonder if you worry about topping it off as it evaporates. Not to worry, even up to 5% of tank volume of pure water can be added without causing stress in most tanks. I sometimes go 2-3 days without topping off anything.  In other words, salinity changes are not as critical as you may think.
Is this answer helpful?
Edited by Mark Peterson
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clown_fish
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Posted: December 23 2004 at 8:39am |
To be honest, since I restart this hobby. I haven't test any of this yet. I will get a test kit soon. So I have no idea what my ph level, cal and alk level at. I am using 100% tap water for my system now. My RO system does not produce enough water for my top off water. For now I am going to stick with tap water until I buy a new RO system. Since I am start all of these new and try to do 20% water change monthly, so I assume my ph, cal, and alk should be normal for a while right?. Thank You very much for a quick response.
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SSpargur
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Posted: December 23 2004 at 8:52am |
Never add anything to the water without testing it first. Don't try to fix it unless you know it's broke.
Adding something that your not certain you tank needs can result in a crash of the system.
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Sean Spargur
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clown_fish
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Posted: December 23 2004 at 9:11am |
Thanks SSpargur for the advice. I am only adding kalkwasser right now as my top off water replacement and I need to promote the coralline algea to grow that is why I am only adding kalkwasser. My system have a refugium with caulerpa and protein skimmer running 24/7. I wait until my caulerpa take over the sump and I will consider to reduce the amount of time running protein skimmer (may during the day only) since skimmer will also remove the good stuff in the water. Am I thinking right or I still missing something?.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: December 23 2004 at 12:39pm |
If your system is new, running a skimmer can be counter productive, unless you bought a lot of LR that needs to finish dieing off.
Even adding kw to a new system is pointless. Wait till you've had it up for six months or you have a ton of coral or clams that need the calcium.
If you are using tapwater, then you ought to be adding kalkwasser powder(calcium hydroxide) to the tapwater while it sits for a day and dechlorinates then drip that clear water for topoff and discard the residue. Calcium Hydroxide takes some of the nasties out of tapwater. Tapwater has a lot of nutrients that I would not recommend to a newbie. The fact that you have a Refugium is probably saving your reef tank.
 How much coral and other organisms are in there now?
Kalkwasser by itself is not the only thing affecting coralline growth. You would be wise to do some more learning before attempting any more chemistry in your tank.
The very next items you buy for the tank should be test kits for pH, Alkalinity, and Nitrate (and Calcium if you have the $$). Then share the test results with us and we will advise you further.
Edited by Mark Peterson
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clown_fish
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 9:52am |
Thanks Mark Peterson
Okey let me describe my system again. The reason I said it new since I do 100% water change, I didn't change any water in the refugium, may be this is why my system cycle within 2 wks. I have more than 100 lb of live rock, but this rock have been in my tank for more than 3 yrs. So with new water and it has been up and running with new light for about 2 months now. and everything seem doing fine. I start to see the coralline algea to come out. I have an old torch coral doing extremely well, it give more branch, candy coral, toastood, devil hands and green finger are just add recently. A few variety mushroom ( green, blue, red, carpet and a giant cup just add to the tank lately). I also have add a electric green anemone, a clam, silver tip zenia. In the tank I have 3 yellow tang, 1 power blue tang and 3 regular percula and one pair of true percular clown. Oh I forget about the 15 turbo snail just add recently. That is all for now. I would like to try some hard coral that is why I start look into kallwasser. Now I look into plankton for my softies. Okey I will get the test kit and let you know what the parammeters of my tank and we can go from there. Thanks again for your advice.
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 10:04am |
I advise coming to the next meeting. Shane H will be making a Kalk reactor, and Chemical Jon will be explaining why it is useful. You should be able to get all your questions answered there.
Adam
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 2:05pm |
clown_fish wrote:
...coralline algae
...torch coral doing extremely well, it give more branch,
... candy coral,
... a clam, |
Torch and Candy are hard corals.
Clams and coralline algae also and need calcium, so you are doing the right thing to add kalkwasser.
A 100% water change doesn't make it a new tank, unless the rock and sand were sitting dry for a while. I'm not sure if I understand you correctly.
Definitely do those water tests and tell us the results and do come to the meeting next Thursday Jan. 6th
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clown_fish
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Posted: December 27 2004 at 2:36pm |
Okey let me give more detail how I reset up my tank. I remove all the live rock into the 50 gallon contain and filled it with old water. Then I clean the tank completely. Rewash the sand many many time with tap water to make sure I killed all the brister worm and flat worm. Then I put all the live rock back filled up the tank with tap water and let it run with power head for about 3 days then connect back to sump and let it run for a week. At this point I didn't put my fish and old coral back yet ( I have a another 90 gallon that holding my coral and fish) after the third week I see my tank go throught my secon stage of cycle (I start see hair algea grown every where on the back glass. I put all the coral and fish back and now I am watching the tank progress. My tang love the hair algea, they clean all up with in a week. Supprise my live rock don't have hair only on the glass. Up until today, did two time water change each time about 30 gallon. I one rock that cover with cyno bacteria, so everytime I do water change I siphon those out and now it seem to not grown any more. Any way the tank is doing great so far. I will test the water this week and ask more. Thanks
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clown_fish
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Posted: January 03 2005 at 8:50am |
Here are my test result. cal is 660 (high, I test couple time. could it be the test kit is defect?) Ph is 7.9 to 8.2. Alk is around 120, Nitrate and nitrite is not concern so I didn't test it. So my question is why my cal is high. dosing kallwasser shouldn't bring up Cal, it should only maintain the level right. so what should I do now. Up until to date all my coral are doing great. Even the hard coral(acropa) I just add last 2 wks is doing great. Thanks again for your opinion.
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jfinch
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Posted: January 03 2005 at 10:28am |
Have you tested your fresh salt mix? If you are using Oceanic salt (blue jug) then that is why your calcium is so high.
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clown_fish
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Posted: January 03 2005 at 10:56am |
yes, I used the Oceanic salt. I will test that tonight. I didn't think about testing the fresh salt mix. So if that the case should i stop dosing kalkwasser for a while.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 03 2005 at 11:59am |
clown_fish wrote:
cal is 660
Ph is 7.9 to 8.2.
Alk is around 120,
dosing kallwasser shouldn't bring up Cal, it should only maintain the level right. so what should I do now. |
There is a chance too that the Ca is high because of the addition of KW. At that level, KW is not necessary nor recommended. Stop using it for a while and watch to see if the number drops to the recommended 350-550 range
At what time of day was the pH at 7.9? pH is ideal at 8.3. pH of 7.9 is low unless it's 5:00 in the morning and then that's to be expected in a tank without a lighted refugium.
I don't understand that Alk number of 120. What does the test kit say is normal? If you meant 12.0, that's normal. Decimal points are very important
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jfinch
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Posted: January 03 2005 at 12:54pm |
It's very unlikely (neigh impossible, imo) to drive your calcium that high, from say a starting point in the low 400s, using only kalkwasser. Kalkwasser adds 2.8 dKH for every 20 ppm of calcium. So to drive calcium from 410 ppm to 660 ppm using kalk would drive your alk from 8 dKH (assumed starting point) to 43 dKH. Not really possible. That high alk (and high pH from the kalk) would drive down your calcium. My money is on the Oceanic salt as it's a very common problem for people using it.
Mark's advice regarding stopping the use of kalk is good, imo. Use an alkalinity only additive such as a commercial buffer or baking soda to maintain your alkalinity around 3 meq/l or 8.5 dKH or 150 ppm CaCO3. You can then resume kalk when your calcium level drops down into the 400s.
I don't understand that Alk number of 120.
Yes, without units attached to the number it could mean many things including a typo. But I'm assuming it's a test kit that reports alk values in ppm CaCO3 equivalents. The conversion is:
1 meq/l = 2.8 dKH = 50 ppm CaCO3 equivalents
so an alk of 120 ppm CaCO3 would be 2.4 meq/l or 6.72 dKH.
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clown_fish
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Posted: January 03 2005 at 1:07pm |
oops, I need to verify that number again. I thought I saw 120, but it is in the normal range. Okey, I will stop using kalkwasser for a while. The ph 7.9 to 8.1 is measure in the morning. My second test around 4:00 is indicate around 8.4. So I guess my ph is okey too. So what should I put in my tank. I have iodine, magnesium, complete reef trace element, stonium cloride 20%, planktoplexand waiting for my plankton culture mature. So far I only using iodine once a week, kalkwasser daily, and plankton DT once every 3 day.
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jfinch
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Posted: January 03 2005 at 1:32pm |
oops, I need to verify that number again. I thought I saw 120, but it is in the normal range.
So... I'm still confused. What is your alk?
So what should I put in my tank.
Food for the fish and corals and a buffer (as needed) is all I would suggest. At least until your calcium drops down into a more normal range. This might take months in your new tank. After the calcium does drop, then you could start adding both buffer and calcium, a balanced additive is great for this such as kalkwasser or B-ionic.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: January 03 2005 at 1:49pm |
jfinch wrote:
This might take months in your new tank. |
And thats a funny thing about new tanks (or maybe it's the people keeping them.  ) We get very enthused about doing everything good for our new aquarium not realizing that if we set it up right with Aragonite substrate and rock(LR or LBTR), and don't overload it with fish, absolutely no additives of any kind are needed for six months or more!
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jfinch
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Posted: January 03 2005 at 2:25pm |
My father-in-law calls it "loving the tank to death"  . And he's right. Nobody gets into the hobby with the idea that they're going to kill everything in their tank. They want everything to be happy so they buy every additive in the store "cause it say's right on the label that manganese is an essential element for proper coral health".
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